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MPC VBR flaws (low volume & ringing), audible under specific conditions
mtm
post Jul 15 2005, 11:57
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QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jul 12 2005, 11:53 AM)
If you play nogap tracks out of sequence, you'll get clicking (even without ReplayGain). To avoid this, you should cross fade the tracks, or pay a DJ to do it for you!

If you play nogap tracks in sequence, you'll get clicking only when using ReplayGain in Track mode. In this case, you could also avoid clicks by using a simple cross fade as above, but that overlaps the tracks and actually loses a bit of audio.
*
I'm sorry for the late reply.

Thank you for the detailed description. smile.gif I do know about that - it takes a bit of hand-editing in cases such as the one I described. My post was by no means of RG-bashing kind and I'm sorry if it sounded a bit like that. I just wanted to give an example that track gain can introduce some unwanted effects, because rjamorim was surprised to hear about problems. Peace.

QUOTE (dev0)
And it's certainly more elegant than the DSP/3rd RG-mode solution Klemm suggested.
Hmm... Frank's idea is more complicated, but would solve not only clicks and sudden loudness jumps, but also help with very dynamic music, where some parts would have to be clipped to raise the avarage loudness to normal RG level. I think Frank had a very good idea. But I agree that 2Bdecided's proposed solution would be much easier to implement and would not change the general RG behaviour.

QUOTE (guruboolez)
A simple ath_gain -10 with classical lead to the same average value than --ath_gain -40 with the second group!
Indeed. The relative difference is higher with classical music, too, when the ATH is lowered.


(thinking loudly) If -14 dB with Q5 were enough and lowering the ATH for all profiles chosen as a temporary solution (using an additional switch, for instance), maybe it would be sufficient to lower the ATH in profiles > Q5 to that level only ? We know it's already being lowered with each profile. This way, the bitrate would not change as much beyond Q5.

guruboolez, do you think the bitrate increases too much, when ATH is 14 dB lower ?

Best regards,
MTM


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2Bdecided
post Jul 15 2005, 13:43
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QUOTE (mtm @ Jul 15 2005, 10:57 AM)
My post was by no means of RG-bashing kind and I'm sorry if it sounded a bit like that.
*


No worries, I didn't take it that way at all - it just reminded me of an idea which I decided to type out!

Cheers,
David.
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mtm
post Jul 15 2005, 13:49
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Phew. smile.gif


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guruboolez
post Jul 17 2005, 13:53
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QUOTE (mtm @ Jul 15 2005, 11:57 AM)
guruboolez, do you think the bitrate increases too much, when ATH is 14 dB lower ?

In my opinion (and it's only mine), MPC --standard was mainly intersting for the quality/bitrate ratio: near-transparency a only 175...180 kbps (i.e. less than LAME --preset standard or Vorbis -q6).


Current mppenc (1.15v) is less interesting than older release, due to the bitrate inflation (for classical, it's 7...10 kbps on average - sometimes 15...20 kbps with specific recordings). Now add 15...25 additional kbps with --ath_gain -14 command, and MPC --standard will clearly exceed 200 kbps. I let you imagine the gap between --radio and --standard. With such bitrate I would consider mpc --standard to my eyes as something less interesting than before.
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GeSomeone
post Jul 20 2005, 16:52
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QUOTE (mtm @ Jul 15 2005, 12:57 PM)
Frank's idea is more complicated, but would solve not only clicks and sudden loudness jumps, but also help with very dynamic music, where some parts would have to be clipped to raise the avarage loudness to normal RG level.
*

That idea actualy is more that of an advanced compressor. Replaygain is the more practical idea, thus easier to support on many formats and players. 2Bdecided's idea of a volume fade, from one RG value into the next, could be a player feature. (zZzZzZz?)


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