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MPC VBR flaws (low volume & ringing), audible under specific conditions
guruboolez
post Jun 23 2005, 10:22
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I’ve read recently some complaints about musepack and distortions occurring with classical music (examples here and here). There were no ABX tests to confirm them. According to my previous listening tests at ~175 kbps, musepack performs not only very well with various kinds of instrumental and vocal samples, but also better than competitors. But I’ve also noticed in the past one issue with this audio format that my previous test didn’t revealed, and it’s a very big one. I’d like to bring out this problem to the community, which wasn’t as far as I know warned about this kind of flaw.

Before carrying and before some seeing zealous users bare its teeth, I have to make clear that this issue only occurs in specific conditions. The problem is confined to low-volume musical content, and is mainly audible when this content has to be listened to a higher playback volume. In other words, affected tracks must have low volume parts, and tracks with high dynamic are not really concerned (you can’t constantly push the volume on such material: your neighbors won’t appreciate it). The problem becomes really critical with low-volume tracks only. People who have to live with the consequences of the “loudness war” are certainly not used to encounter such tracks, but for classical fans, tracks that are replaygained at +10 dB, +20 dB and sometimes +30 dB are all except a rare thing (tracks with corrected gain beyond +25 dB are nevertheless very rare). The encoded material would exhibit strong artifacts with ReplayGan set with Track Mode (they won’t be audible otherwise, except maybe as a subtle form of distortion – it could explain some recent complains about musepack and classical music). With RG enabled, even untrained people will be shocked by the terrible ringing that run across this musical material. MPC, with --standard profile, and to some degree --extreme and also –insane is apparently not sensitive enough to handle low volume situation.


At this stage of my account, some people would be probably tempted to claim that such issue is normal with perceptual encoding, and that all other formats will suffer from the same issue in this specific playback condition. But a quick comparison would immediately deny all validity to this idea. I’ve compared musepack --standard to comparable MP3, AAC and Vorbis presets, and these competitors showed the ability to encode properly (no ringing, flat lowpass at high level) the same material. Even stranger, MP3 at 128 kbps, or Vorbis at 90 kbps (!), or AAC (faac!) at 100 kbps perform *much* better than musepack --standard. In other words, perceptual encoders (at least modern one) could handle this situation transparently at mid/low bitrate, even with VBR; only musepack fails, and badly. It might be interesting to note that the VBR model is apparently flawed: with --standard, the bitrate drops to unusual value (110…140 kbps), and quality to an even more abnormal threshold. An illustration (graphical – listening tests were performed upstream - click for link) could make things easier to understand:



I’ve also uploaded an additional gallery - the last one looks very weird! and sounds even worse as it looks.


The ringing, and the austere lowpass, are obvious on these screenshots. Quality is objectively worse than MP3@128; subjectively speaking, the audibility is –as usual- linked to various conditions: hardware, player settings (RG or not), listener’ sensitivity to ringing. Some users won’t notice it, some others will be frightened. The important point to note here is that other audio formats have no problems; my purpose wasn’t to make an infertile comparison between MPC and other. Based on this comparison, I’m tempted to say that MPC could rejoin them with some tuning. Anecdotal point: LAME had recently serious issue (which also concern 3.90.3 ABR at mid/low bitrate) and they were recently solved by developers. I think Gabriel worked on an adaptive ATH threshold, and it might be a lead for MPC developer or for some users which are interested to play with current encoder switches.


I’ve uploaded some samples. The gain for short samples is necessary different from the gain of complete sample; but I’ve tried to cut sample with similar gain. The WavPack samples uploaded have all the native gain and the track_peak of the full track. I’ve also duplicated the track gain to the album gain.

http://guruboolez.free.fr/MPC/quiet_tracks_replaygained.zip

Two appendix in this zip file : a piano sample for which track gain for the sample doesn’t really match to the track gain of the full track (+40 dB instead of +25 dB) ; and a very noisy track for which musepack doesn’t have any problem, despite of high gain correction.


This report is probably the last one I’ll do for MPC (a developer have claim their lack of interest for improving classical at --standard), but I nevertheless hope it will help to improve the encoder. Playing with command line (in order to change ATH or noise sensitivity) might be enough to solve or reduce this issue; therefore, every MPC user could contribute. In the meantime, users should be aware of this issue.

This post has been edited by guruboolez: Jun 23 2005, 10:26
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Gabriel
post Jul 9 2005, 11:16
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Isn't the purpose of track gain to be able to use the tracks in a compilation of tracks from different albums?
In this case, why would track gain be dependant of the gain of its neighbours tracks in the original album? If someone wants to listen a full album, he would use album gain, not track gain.
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Frank Klemm
post Jul 9 2005, 14:47
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QUOTE (Gabriel @ Jul 9 2005, 12:16 PM)
Isn't the purpose of track gain to be able to use the tracks in a compilation of tracks from different albums?
In this case, why would track gain be dependant of the gain of its neighbours tracks in the original album? If someone wants to listen a full album, he would use album gain, not track gain.
*


This is not an article about Musepack, but about flaws in the current ReplayGain
concept and implementation. Low level artefacts are related to this problem,
but this article is about ReplayGain and problems with ReplayGain. ReplayGain
ist *not* perfect at all, there's a long list of problems. Actually I use only
album based ReplayGain, other modes have a lot of problems which may significantly
reduce enjoy music.

Okay?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We should (always) start from the user application side.
And there there are at least three scenarios.

1. You want to listen to an album in original order. You want to remove volume differences between albums. The aim is to avoid volume differences between albums with different reference level, which is typical for album mastered in different decades. The effect is like a computer's turn on the volume control between albums (and by the way can also implemented in this way when the computer has access to the volume control via RS-232, RS-422, Cable LAN, Wireless LAN, IR-RC, IR-DA, USB, IEEE-1394, CAN, ...).

2. You want to listen to an album in original order. You want to remove volume differences between titels. The aim ist to reduce loudness differences inside an album, maybe also inside longer or very dynamic tracks. These loudness adjustments must be inaudible at all. No clicks, no distortions, no incredible noise boosting, no obviously loudness changes.

3. You want to shuffle titles of different album and you want to remove loudness differences between the titles. The goal is again: No clicks, no distortions, no incredible noise boosting, no obviously loudness changes.

Okay? Always start from the user application side, never start from the SSE and 3DNow!
assembler code side! Even when you like assembly programming on Intel.
Okay?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now from the programmers geek side.

Solution for 1 is the album based replaygain and this work really great.

Solution for 2 is the proposal above. There should be a free parameter (with a useful default value) which controls the speed of the AGC. Someone want only slight loudness correction especially on title borders, another people wants to remove nearly all dynamic.

For album with silence at the title boundaries title based replaygain often works.
When there's only little loudness difference inside the album also the album gain works (see examples 2)!
There are some conceptional flaws and some flaws in the implementation.
* From time to time there are titles with (psychological) much too much title based replaygain gain
** short titles
** silent titles which must be silent at all
* file boundaries not at the real title boundaries
* live albums / classic without gaps
* noisy albums with little, but audible noise between tracks
* albums with DC
When an album has one of these problems, title based replaygain works poorly.
(see also Examples 1).

Solutions for 3 are also not so easy to implement. First of all we have problems with
boundaries (shifted, no silence). But it is not the task of replaygain to find useful
cuts or to fade between live titles during playback.

Primary goal is to remove loudness differences. Secondary goal is to avoid boosting
of intentionally silent titles. Third goal is to avoid noise boosting.

Short and very silent titles should not be boosted as much as replaygain's function GetTitleGain() says. This is important to avoid boosting of short and intentionally
silent titles.

To avoid noise boosting, ReplayGain's title gain must be limited. ReplayGain's album gain makes less problems, I only found albums with gains between -12.3 dB and +9,4 dB.
Within the title gain I found gain from -13,7 dB to +30,9 dB.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Even for 2 AND for 3 the current ReplayGain title gain is a really good implementation.
There are some flaws affecting the usage of ReplayGain title gain for problem 2 AND for problem 3. These should be fixed. In combination with a solution of the cut problem then ReplayGain title gain is also a great solution for problem 3.

Problem 2 must be solved completely different. Even when the ReplayGain title gain problems are solved, there are enough problems remaining when you want to use it
with music with
* file boundaries not at the real title boundaries
* live albums / classic without gaps
* noisy albums with little, but audible noise between tracks
* albums with DC

Examples: see next posting(s)

This post has been edited by Frank Klemm: Jul 9 2005, 15:23


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-- Frank Klemm
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Frank Klemm
post Jul 9 2005, 14:58
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Example for changing title based replaygains from title to title.
(Pause) are silent intermezzi with background noise, ends and beginning of other titles.
Some are digital null or above +36 dB (=>0 dB titlegain), some are between +31 dB and
+15 dB (=> +15...+31 dB), some has normal loudness resultig in ReplayGain of -5...-7 dB.

The title numbering on the CD and on the Cover is different!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000CNY4K/

Replaygain values:

CODE

Title | Album |
Level- | (Peak+)| Level- | (Peak+)|
Adjustment| Peak (Adjst)|Adjustment| Peak (Adjst)| Filename
----------+--------------+----------+--------------+---------------------------
-7.52 dB | 34427 (14484)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [01] Wo willst du hin%3F.mpc
+30.12 dB | 599 (19205)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [02] (Pause).mpc
-6.17 dB | 37039 (18203)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [03] Auf Herz und Nieren.mpc
+0.00 dB | 187 ( 187)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [04] (Pause).mpc
-5.93 dB | 34627 (17495)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [05] Wir gehören zusammen.mpc
+0.00 dB | 483 ( 483)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [06] (Pause).mpc
-6.84 dB | 37529 (17075)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [07] Abschied nehmen.mpc
+20.32 dB | 2571 (26674)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [08] (Pause).mpc
-9.01 dB | 36891 (13074)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [09] Kein Königreich.mpc
+14.71 dB | 3633 (19759)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [10] (Pause).mpc
-7.43 dB | 37127 (15783)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [11] Wir haben alles Gute vor uns.mpc
+0.00 dB | 73 ( 73)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [12] (Pause).mpc
-6.51 dB | 35447 (16752)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [13] Alle Männer müssen kämpfen.mpc
+28.30 dB | 861 (22387)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [14] (Pause).mpc
-5.25 dB | 35853 (19589)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [15] That's the way love is.mpc
+17.96 dB | 3587 (28361)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [16] (Pause).mpc
-9.42 dB | 34291 (11592)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [17] Brief.mpc
+0.00 dB | 309 ( 309)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [18] (Pause).mpc
-7.46 dB | 34297 (14529)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [19] Don't give up.mpc
+30.90 dB | 833 (29217)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [20] (Pause).mpc
-5.01 dB | 36825 (20684)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [21] Gut aufgepasst.mpc
+0.00 dB | 235 ( 235)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [22] (Pause).mpc
-6.60 dB | 36525 (17084)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [23] Wenn ich schon Kinder hätte (Rap-Version).mpc
+26.50 dB | 913 (19296)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [24] (Pause).mpc
-6.93 dB | 29321 (13203)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [25] Kleines Lied (Kinderlied).mpc
+26.72 dB | 879 (19054)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [26] (Pause).mpc
-5.08 dB | 31571 (17590)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [27] Die Dinge singen hör ich so gern.mpc
+25.92 dB | 4979 (98433)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [28] (Pause).mpc
-7.47 dB | 34227 (14483)| -7.14 dB | 37529 (16495)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [29] Keep your eyes on me.mpc
+0.00 dB | 1 ( 1)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [01] (Pause).mpc
-5.74 dB | 33169 (17129)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [02] Himmel über Deutschland.mpc
+16.33 dB | 2297 (15054)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [03] (Pause).mpc
-5.28 dB | 35303 (19222)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [04] Ich lass sie sterben.mpc
+1.95 dB | 24485 (30647)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [05] (Pause).mpc
-6.18 dB | 34891 (17128)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [06] Bevor du gehst.mpc
-8.76 dB | 34735 (12669)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [07] (Pause).mpc
-5.53 dB | 36027 (19060)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [08] I'd be waiting.mpc
+0.00 dB | 341 ( 341)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [09] (Pause).mpc
-5.09 dB | 34937 (19443)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [10] Sie ist im Viereck angelegt.mpc
-4.91 dB | 33669 (19130)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [11] (Pause).mpc
-5.30 dB | 35933 (19520)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [12] Eyes R shut.mpc
+0.00 dB | 39 ( 39)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [13] (Pause).mpc
-4.22 dB | 34461 (21199)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [14] Der Geist ist willig.mpc
+3.93 dB | 16935 (26624)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [15] (Pause).mpc
-4.20 dB | 34441 (21236)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [16] Mägde und Knechte.mpc
+1.62 dB | 31413 (37853)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [17] (Pause).mpc
-6.81 dB | 35489 (16202)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [18] Der Herr knickt alle Bäume.mpc
+0.00 dB | 349 ( 349)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [19] (Pause).mpc
-5.79 dB | 36597 (18790)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [20] Wer weiß schon, was der Morgen bringt.mpc
+8.13 dB | 6591 (16805)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [21] (Pause).mpc
-5.09 dB | 36205 (20149)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [22] Alles für den Herrn.mpc
+0.35 dB | 34581 (36002)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [23] (Pause).mpc
-4.74 dB | 38201 (22134)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [24] Wo driften wir hin.mpc
+0.62 dB | 24231 (26023)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [25] (Pause).mpc
-7.00 dB | 37661 (16822)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [26] Klagelieder.mpc
-6.75 dB | 34197 (15721)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [27] (Pause).mpc
-5.11 dB | 27527 (15284)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [28] Lied (du, nur du).mpc
+7.97 dB | 7453 (18656)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [29] (Pause).mpc
-4.56 dB | 33751 (19965)| -5.56 dB | 38201 (20140)| Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [30] Wenn du es willst (mir sind die Hände gebunden).mpc
| 38201 (98433)| | 38201 (20140)| --- maximum ---


Musepack bitrates and durations:

CODE

PCM size File size Ratio kbps Duration Param Frequency Name
44.633 6.077 7.344 192 4:13.027 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [01] Wo willst du hin%3F.mpc
0.938 0.079 120 0:05.320 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [02] (Pause).mpc
45.605 6.469 7.049 200 4:18.533 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [03] Auf Herz und Nieren.mpc
1.027 0.081 112 0:05.827 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [04] (Pause).mpc
43.608 6.227 7.002 202 4:07.213 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [05] Wir gehören zusammen.mpc
0.992 0.066 94.3 0:05.627 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [06] (Pause).mpc
73.904 10.654 6.936 203 6:58.960 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [07] Abschied nehmen.mpc
1.121 0.056 71.1 0:06.360 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [08] (Pause).mpc
36.994 4.841 7.641 185 3:29.720 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [09] Kein Königreich.mpc
0.959 0.127 7.510 188 0:05.440 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [10] (Pause).mpc
58.002 7.115 8.151 173 5:28.813 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [11] Wir haben alles Gute vor uns.mpc
0.886 0.088 141 0:05.027 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [12] (Pause).mpc
57.607 8.598 6.700 211 5:26.573 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [13] Alle Männer müssen kämpfen.mpc
1.032 0.070 96.3 0:05.853 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [14] (Pause).mpc
48.740 7.471 6.524 216 4:36.307 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [15] That's the way love is.mpc
0.896 0.049 78.1 0:05.080 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [16] (Pause).mpc
54.923 7.670 7.161 197 5:11.360 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [17] Brief.mpc
0.893 0.071 112 0:05.067 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [18] (Pause).mpc
67.862 8.823 7.691 183 6:24.707 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [19] Don't give up.mpc
0.933 0.064 97.6 0:05.293 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [20] (Pause).mpc
45.358 6.029 7.522 188 4:17.133 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [21] Gut aufgepasst.mpc
0.898 0.073 115 0:05.093 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [22] (Pause).mpc
50.490 7.080 7.131 198 4:46.227 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [23] Wenn ich schon Kinder hätte (Rap-Version).mpc
0.959 0.059 87.5 0:05.440 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [24] (Pause).mpc
36.893 4.738 7.786 181 3:29.147 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [25] Kleines Lied (Kinderlied).mpc
0.922 0.043 66.2 0:05.227 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [26] (Pause).mpc
39.727 5.820 6.825 207 3:45.213 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [27] Die Dinge singen hör ich so gern.mpc
1.070 0.087 116 0:06.067 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [28] (Pause).mpc
53.317 7.313 7.291 194 5:02.253 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 1) (2002) -- [29] Keep your eyes on me.mpc
0.705 0.001 3.52 0:04.000 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [01] (Pause).mpc
65.564 8.723 7.516 188 6:11.680 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [02] Himmel über Deutschland.mpc
0.705 0.070 9.954 142 0:04.000 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [03] (Pause).mpc
39.210 5.050 7.764 182 3:42.280 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [04] Ich lass sie sterben.mpc
0.705 0.068 137 0:04.000 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [05] (Pause).mpc
55.006 7.742 7.104 199 5:11.827 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [06] Bevor du gehst.mpc
0.705 0.085 8.295 170 0:04.000 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [07] (Pause).mpc
42.500 6.411 6.629 213 4:00.933 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [08] I'd be waiting.mpc
0.705 0.052 105 0:04.000 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [09] (Pause).mpc
41.522 6.177 6.721 210 3:55.387 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [10] Sie ist im Viereck angelegt.mpc
0.705 0.075 9.368 151 0:04.000 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [11] (Pause).mpc
58.602 8.488 6.904 204 5:32.213 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [12] Eyes R shut.mpc
0.705 0.020 40.7 0:04.000 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [13] (Pause).mpc
45.720 5.820 7.855 180 4:19.187 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [14] Der Geist ist willig.mpc
0.707 0.096 7.334 192 0:04.013 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [15] (Pause).mpc
48.705 5.908 8.244 171 4:36.107 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [16] Mägde und Knechte.mpc
0.740 0.061 116 0:04.200 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [17] (Pause).mpc
40.108 5.619 7.138 198 3:47.373 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [18] Der Herr knickt alle Bäume.mpc
0.705 0.061 123 0:04.000 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [19] (Pause).mpc
38.960 4.891 7.965 177 3:40.867 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [20] Wer weiß schon, was der Morgen bringt.mpc
0.705 0.052 104 0:04.000 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [21] (Pause).mpc
40.701 4.656 8.740 161 3:50.733 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [22] Alles für den Herrn.mpc
0.705 0.069 140 0:04.000 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [23] (Pause).mpc
43.481 5.630 7.723 183 4:06.493 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [24] Wo driften wir hin.mpc
0.705 0.070 9.968 142 0:04.000 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [25] (Pause).mpc
40.637 4.630 8.777 161 3:50.373 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [26] Klagelieder.mpc
0.705 0.057 114 0:04.000 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [27] (Pause).mpc
45.299 6.495 6.974 202 4:16.800 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [28] Lied (du, nur du).mpc
0.705 0.064 129 0:04.000 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [29] (Pause).mpc
68.523 8.974 7.636 185 6:28.453 (2x16 44100 Hz) Zwischenspiel - Alles für den Herrn (CD 2) (2002) -- [30] Wenn du es willst (mir sind die Hände gebunden).mpc
1496.373 202.080 7.405 191 141:22.827 --- 59 files ---


(HA board software reformats the first table, why???)

moderation: changed 'code' blocks to 'codebox' for better readability


--------------------
-- Frank Klemm
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Posts in this topic
- guruboolez   MPC VBR flaws (low volume & ringing)   Jun 23 2005, 10:22
- - shadowking   I confirm serious problems under these special lis...   Jun 23 2005, 11:07
- - Acid8000   What I understand from your post guru is that at ...   Jun 23 2005, 11:24
- - rjamorim   I think you should put more creativity into your r...   Jun 23 2005, 15:24
- - Gambit   I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, so I t...   Jun 23 2005, 15:41
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE (Gambit @ Jun 23 2005, 03:41 PM)QUOTE ...   Jun 27 2005, 10:27
- - Gabriel   The obvious workaround is to check the track gain ...   Jun 23 2005, 20:33
- - Lefungus   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Jun 23 2005, 11:22 AM)Thi...   Jun 23 2005, 20:33
|- - Dibrom   QUOTE (Lefungus @ Jun 23 2005, 11:33 AM)QUOTE...   Jun 23 2005, 22:01
||- - mtm   QUOTE (Dibrom @ Jun 23 2005, 11:01 PM)I would...   Jun 23 2005, 22:23
||- - GeSomeone   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Jun 23 2005, 11:22 AM)Thi...   Jun 27 2005, 12:18
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Lefungus @ Jun 23 2005, 04:33 PM)The c...   Jun 23 2005, 22:21
- - mtm   guruboolez, thank you very much for your input. I ...   Jun 23 2005, 21:43
- - CiTay   Thanks again for that summary, guruboolez. I alrea...   Jun 24 2005, 01:20
- - CiTay   Frank replied from work that he will comment as so...   Jun 24 2005, 10:33
- - mtm   My sincerest thanks to everyone involved.   Jun 24 2005, 14:40
- - xmixahlx   dibrom's speed enhancements were focused on PP...   Jun 27 2005, 20:32
|- - Dibrom   QUOTE (xmixahlx @ Jun 27 2005, 11:32 AM)dibro...   Jun 27 2005, 21:04
- - CiTay   As promised, here is the answer that i got from Fr...   Jun 28 2005, 20:09
- - CiTay   I'm a bit surprised nobody has to say anything...   Jul 2 2005, 21:40
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (CiTay @ Jul 2 2005, 05:40 PM)I'm a...   Jul 2 2005, 21:56
||- - CiTay   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jul 2 2005, 10:56 PM)Well, ...   Jul 2 2005, 22:37
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE (CiTay @ Jul 2 2005, 09:40 PM)I'm a...   Jul 5 2005, 13:33
|- - markanini   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Jul 5 2005, 01:33 PM)QUOT...   Jul 5 2005, 14:45
||- - guruboolez   QUOTE (markanini @ Jul 5 2005, 02:45 PM)I don...   Jul 5 2005, 16:17
|- - Dibrom   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Jul 5 2005, 04:33 AM)QUOT...   Jul 5 2005, 16:25
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE I think it's probably worth noting that ...   Jul 5 2005, 16:51
|- - Vertigo   QUOTE QUOTE I think it's probably worth noting...   Jul 5 2005, 17:26
- - Vertigo   Hahaha, I love it when robert comes in to save the...   Jul 3 2005, 00:54
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Vertigo @ Jul 2 2005, 08:54 PM)Hahaha,...   Jul 3 2005, 01:01
- - Dibrom   Do we need to split this thread again to stay on t...   Jul 3 2005, 01:32
- - Cyaneyes   Just to comment on Frank's thoughts on Track g...   Jul 3 2005, 02:43
|- - Andavari   QUOTE (Cyaneyes @ Jul 2 2005, 07:43 PM)Just t...   Jul 3 2005, 03:47
|- - Lyx   *nevermind - i mixed up trackgain and albumgain*   Jul 3 2005, 04:27
- - xmixahlx   ...if this problem only occurs in music with ridic...   Jul 3 2005, 11:29
- - Lime   I think a workaround is easy. Just do a replaygain...   Jul 5 2005, 15:10
- - Raptus   QUOTE (Gabriel @ Jun 23 2005, 11:33 AM)The fi...   Jul 5 2005, 15:41
|- - Shade[ST]   wouldnt this type of adjustment make the ath usele...   Jul 5 2005, 15:47
- - Gabriel   QUOTE wouldnt this type of adjustment make the ath...   Jul 5 2005, 16:04
|- - Dibrom   QUOTE (Gabriel @ Jul 5 2005, 07:04 AM)If I re...   Jul 5 2005, 16:46
- - Dibrom   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Jul 5 2005, 07:51 AM)QUOT...   Jul 5 2005, 17:26
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE Well haven't you gotten polite answers i...   Jul 5 2005, 18:52
- - Dibrom   QUOTE QUOTE By that, I mean that changing this in ...   Jul 5 2005, 17:26
- - Vertigo   I think we need to send Guruboolez the HA Controve...   Jul 5 2005, 17:32
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Vertigo @ Jul 5 2005, 01:32 PM)I think...   Jul 5 2005, 17:51
|- - Vertigo   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jul 5 2005, 08:51 AM)QUOTE ...   Jul 5 2005, 17:57
- - Jebus   I think there seems to just be an issue with ATH a...   Jul 5 2005, 20:22
- - CiTay   I got a new e-Mail from Frank (he follows this thr...   Jul 8 2005, 22:19
|- - ChristianHJW   QUOTE (CiTay @ Jul 8 2005, 09:19 PM)I got a n...   Jul 10 2005, 09:45
- - Gabriel   Isn't the purpose of track gain to be able to ...   Jul 9 2005, 11:16
|- - Frank Klemm   QUOTE (Gabriel @ Jul 9 2005, 12:16 PM)Isn...   Jul 9 2005, 14:47
|- - Frank Klemm   Example for changing title based replaygains from ...   Jul 9 2005, 14:58
|- - Frank Klemm   Other examples where ReplayGain makes nonsense. Es...   Jul 9 2005, 15:16
||- - Frank Klemm   A lot of albums have nearly no differences between...   Jul 9 2005, 15:22
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE This is not an article about Musepack, but a...   Jul 10 2005, 23:22
||- - Dibrom   QUOTE I won't say that ReplayGain is the cause...   Jul 11 2005, 00:15
||- - Gambit   QUOTE (Dibrom @ Jul 11 2005, 12:15 AM)I think...   Jul 11 2005, 00:22
|||- - Dibrom   QUOTE (Gambit @ Jul 10 2005, 03:22 PM)QUOTE (...   Jul 11 2005, 00:25
|||- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Dibrom @ Jul 10 2005, 08:25 PM)Well ca...   Jul 11 2005, 00:28
|||- - Dibrom   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jul 10 2005, 03:28 PM)QUOTE...   Jul 11 2005, 00:33
|||- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Dibrom @ Jul 10 2005, 08:33 PM)Umm.. I...   Jul 11 2005, 00:41
|||- - Dibrom   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jul 10 2005, 03:41 PM)Well,...   Jul 11 2005, 00:59
|||- - rjamorim   Thanks for your clarification. So, from that, one...   Jul 11 2005, 01:02
|||- - Dibrom   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jul 10 2005, 04:02 PM)Thank...   Jul 11 2005, 01:05
|||- - CiTay   QUOTE (Dibrom @ Jul 11 2005, 02:05 AM)'Co...   Jul 11 2005, 01:26
|||- - guruboolez   QUOTE (CiTay @ Jul 11 2005, 01:26 AM)With tha...   Jul 11 2005, 11:53
|||- - CiTay   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Jul 11 2005, 12:53 PM)Now...   Jul 11 2005, 13:01
|||- - guruboolez   QUOTE (CiTay @ Jul 11 2005, 01:01 PM)QUOTE (g...   Jul 11 2005, 14:14
||- - guruboolez   QUOTE (Dibrom @ Jul 11 2005, 12:15 AM)The inv...   Jul 11 2005, 02:18
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Frank Klemm @ Jul 9 2005, 10:47 AM)Rep...   Jul 11 2005, 00:13
|- - Frank Klemm   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jul 11 2005, 01:13 AM)QUOTE...   Jul 11 2005, 18:23
|- - mtm   QUOTE (Frank Klemm @ Jul 11 2005, 07:23 PM)Th...   Jul 12 2005, 05:07
|- - Frank Klemm   QUOTE (mtm @ Jul 12 2005, 06:07 AM)QUOTE (Fra...   Jul 12 2005, 22:39
- - Gambit   It seems funny to me that you would try to fix Rep...   Jul 9 2005, 11:48
- - mtm   Thank you for your posts, Mr Klemm. They certainly...   Jul 9 2005, 18:51
- - mtm   I just want to say I agree with everything Dibrom ...   Jul 11 2005, 01:35
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE (mtm @ Jul 11 2005, 01:35 AM)I don...   Jul 11 2005, 02:26
- - Dibrom   I think I probably agree with guruboolez. I'm...   Jul 11 2005, 13:11
|- - ancl   QUOTE (Dibrom @ Jul 11 2005, 02:11 PM)I think...   Jul 11 2005, 13:33
||- - Dibrom   QUOTE (ancl @ Jul 11 2005, 04:33 AM)The 2-pas...   Jul 11 2005, 13:53
|- - CiTay   QUOTE (Dibrom @ Jul 11 2005, 02:11 PM)I think...   Jul 11 2005, 13:40
|- - Dibrom   QUOTE (CiTay @ Jul 11 2005, 04:40 AM)Yes, it...   Jul 11 2005, 13:57
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE (CiTay @ Jul 11 2005, 01:40 PM)"Ho...   Jul 11 2005, 14:27
|- - CiTay   QUOTE The current problem of MPC is not to be sure...   Jul 11 2005, 15:07
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE (CiTay @ Jul 11 2005, 03:07 PM)I don...   Jul 11 2005, 15:23
|- - CiTay   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Jul 11 2005, 04:23 PM)May...   Jul 11 2005, 15:33
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE (CiTay @ Jul 11 2005, 03:33 PM)The thre...   Jul 11 2005, 15:50
|- - CiTay   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Jul 11 2005, 04:50 PM)QUO...   Jul 11 2005, 16:03
- - 2Bdecided   I think the concentration on ReplayGain is mislead...   Jul 11 2005, 14:49
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jul 11 2005, 02:49 PM)btw,...   Jul 11 2005, 15:01
|- - Dibrom   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jul 11 2005, 05:49 AM)The ...   Jul 11 2005, 15:14
||- - guruboolez   QUOTE Yes, but looking back the original quote fro...   Jul 11 2005, 15:35
|- - Frank Klemm   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jul 11 2005, 03:49 PM)The ...   Jul 11 2005, 18:14
- - CiTay   Also, guruboolez, i want to apologize to you again...   Jul 11 2005, 15:30
- - krazy   QUOTE (Frank Klemm @ Jul 12 2005, 01:23 AM)I ...   Jul 11 2005, 19:36
|- - Frank Klemm   QUOTE (krazy @ Jul 11 2005, 08:36 PM)QUOTE (F...   Jul 11 2005, 19:51
- - 2Bdecided   If you play nogap tracks out of sequence, you...   Jul 12 2005, 10:53
|- - seanyseansean   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jul 12 2005, 10:53 AM)A ne...   Jul 12 2005, 10:57
|- - dev0   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jul 12 2005, 10:53 AM)That...   Jul 12 2005, 11:17
- - guruboolez   I made a similar comparison, using short samples d...   Jul 13 2005, 00:41
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