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Plextor gone insane ?, Plextor threatens software developer ...
emtee
post May 30 2005, 15:50
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Considering most Plextor's buyers are enthusiasts or power users who probably use other operating systems than windows, legally threatening them because they're developing software they can use in other platforms (which could actually improve Plextor sales) is retarded. And all because they want to sell that Plextools XP-crap...
Anyway, I was saving my money to buy a Plextor DVD burner. Not gonna happen now. Would Lite-On be a good alternative to Plextor?
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spoon
post May 30 2005, 16:00
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>You could have asked Andre Wiethoff about it ...

Indeed they supplied that info to him under an NDA, you would think those commands were security codes to Nuclear missiles smile.gif

>Would Lite-On be a good alternative to Plextor?

I have found that lite-on make excellent cd ripping drives (obviously each model will be different).


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johny5
post May 30 2005, 16:19
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I've got a rebranded liteon (sony) dvd-rom and i love it. No problems at all. My previous one from *cough* samsung failed after only 1 1/4 year.

An extra vote for liteon.

Ontopic:
I think if this news gets spread on the big news-sites and forum plextor might actually come back their decission.

This post has been edited by johny5: May 30 2005, 16:21
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Sebastian Mares
post May 30 2005, 16:37
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I was very happy with my LITE-ON LTR-52246S CD burner until it refused to write any media after two years and a week or two. Although the warranty was void (since more than two years passed), LITE-ON was so kind to replace the broken device with a brand new SOHR-5238S + 2 years warranty.
The new device is not bad, but not "perfect" either. It seems to be a bit more picky when it comes to unknown CD-R media and its error correction seems worse than the LTR-52246S'. Another thing which I don't like (although it has nothing to do with quality whatsoever) is that the SOHR-5238S has only one green LED which indicates reading, writing and SMART-Burn - the old writer had a green, a red and an orage LED.

Overall, the LITE-ONs are decent drives with a good price. The support was very quick and friendly. According to c't tests, there are pretty much errors when writing at higher speeds, but this seems to happen with most drives tested. Even the PX-712A which I have now doesn't perform well with some media.


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JeanLuc
post May 30 2005, 16:52
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QUOTE (emtee @ May 30 2005, 02:50 PM)
Would Lite-On be a good alternative to Plextor?
*


If you want reliable DVD/CD writing, stay away from LiteOn/Sony and go for NEC or BenQ ...


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Triza
post May 30 2005, 19:35
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Since I would like to use that C1 C2 tests which requires either that damn Plextor with Plextools or alternatively Lite-On with Kprobe, so for me it is gonna be Lite-On. It is also very cheap.

Triza
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spath
post May 30 2005, 20:42
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QUOTE (JeanLuc @ May 30 2005, 06:31 AM)
QUOTE (spoon @ May 30 2005, 01:58 PM)

I have long known that plextor is a shit company, I once approached them asking for the plextor specific command to disable the first session, they refused and even though I reversed engineered it I couldn't be bothered implementing it, if they want everyone to use plextools only then fine by me, perhaps I would have got a legal letter.

*


You could have asked Andre Wiethoff about it ... biggrin.gif


I'm sure Plextor people were really surprised to hear that they had an option
to "disable the first session" smile.gif

Seriously, he really reverse engineered it himself. He did that during the few hours
between his post asking about the commands and my post giving them out, both
in this thread http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=17170

Gee, pretenders used to have better memories...
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JeanLuc
post May 30 2005, 20:52
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QUOTE (Triza @ May 30 2005, 06:35 PM)
Since I would like to use that C1 C2 tests which requires either that damn Plextor with Plextools or alternatively Lite-On with Kprobe, so for me it is gonna be Lite-On. It is also very cheap.

Triza
*


The BenQ models (in conjunction with CD/DVD Speed) do it as well ... with better writing quality at absolutely comparable pricing.


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spoon
post May 31 2005, 00:20
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>Seriously, he really reverse engineered it himself.

Lets just say I had a working disable first session and it didn't come from your number dump (which looked like a sniff from EAC, and incidently from > 1 year ago memory appeared to be a little wrong...). I will not say any more on that subject.

Anything else you wish to drag up from the past? wink.gif


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spath
post May 31 2005, 20:57
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> Lets just say I had a working disable first session and it didn't
> come from your number dump...

Of course you did. People who complain on the internet that something
is secret always know this secret, they just keep it for themselves and
feel for others.

> ...(which looked like a sniff from EAC,

Too bad, that's not the same command EAC uses.

> ... and incidently from > 1 year ago memory appeared to be a
> little wrong...). I will not say any more on that subject.

A little wrong really ? Why don't you try it and report back then ?
And why didn't you claim that it was wrong at the time ?

> Anything else you wish to drag up from the past?

Depends, do you have other funny claims or technical fantasies to post ?
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spoon
post Jun 1 2005, 13:50
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>Of course you did.

There you go again...always doubting me (the other thread you questioned if I knew about CD ripping).

>Why don't you try it and report back then ?

I am not going to waste my time with you. If you wish to knock up an example program be my guest.

>And why didn't you claim that it was wrong at the time ?

See above, your numbers were just that a list of numbers.

From what I can tell (looking back at old threads) you like nothing better than to rattle up developers of CD rippers questioning what they know with claims that YOU are fully in the know. But then again without actually writing a CD ripping program of your own that makes you all talk...


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Moonwhaler
post Jun 1 2005, 15:14
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Hi there!

For all who can read German here is the article I promised last week... smile.gif

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/60048


Long live the community and thanks to the heise.de team!
Greetings.


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Digga
post Jun 1 2005, 17:01
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it's been covered on AfterDawn too.


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rjamorim
post Jun 1 2005, 20:52
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Any opinions on Pioneer? I have been eyeing their DVD burners.


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beto
post Jun 1 2005, 21:23
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I don't know about pioneer but I recently bought a LG GSA-4163B and it is working good. It supports a wide variety of DVD media including dual layer and DVD-RAM.

See more info here.

It's pretty easy to find OEM models in Brazil and the cost is really fair, around BRL200.

Does not answer your original question but I hope this helps.


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rjamorim
post Jun 1 2005, 21:35
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QUOTE (beto @ Jun 1 2005, 05:23 PM)
It's pretty easy to find OEM models in Brazil and the cost is really fair, around BRL200.

Does not answer your original question but I hope this helps.
*


I have a DRD-8160B DVD reader from LG. Quality is so bad (problems reading DVDs recorded by a LG unit!) that I was planning to stay away from them as much as possible...


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beto
post Jun 1 2005, 22:06
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I also have one of those DVD readers, but to be honest I only used it to rip original DVDs and CDs. It never gave me any major headache.

Maybe it's just bad luck tongue.gif

Anyway, there are some tests at CDfreaks that you might want to check out.


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tool++
post Jun 1 2005, 23:12
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For the record, they really don't seem happy about it. This one support staff bloke seemed rather stressed out. Poor guy.
QUOTE
How?
4 messages
James Cleveland <x@gmail.com>  Sat, May 28, 2005 at 7:05 PM
Reply-To: James Cleveland <x@gmail.com>
To: x@plextor.com
How can you take full advantage of you burner on linux now you
destroyed pxlinux?
Seeing as the paid tools are windows only.

Give me a good, reasonable solution - or maybe it would be wise to
reconsider your attitude to thoughtlessly swiping freeware developers
from the face of the earth.

Thanks.
Tech Support <x@plextor.com>  Tue, May 31, 2005 at 12:43 PM
To: James Cleveland <x@gmail.com>
James,

Thank you for contacting Plextor Support.

The issue with supporting Linux is that there are just too many distros
out there, and most distros have their own way of doing things.

Developing software for multiple operating systems: Windows, Mac OS, RPM
based distros such as Redhat, Mandrake (or whatever they are calling it
this week), SUSE, etc; Debian based distros such as Linspire, Debian,
Slackware, etc; or even distros like Gentoo that you compile from
scratch, and so on... and so forth, is just way too expensive for any
company to do.

My advice would be to try using the latest release of K3B with the
drive. While K3B may not give you the full benefit of the drive, you
will at least be able to get more use out of it than with most other
burning packages that have been written for Linux.

Thank you,

Keith.
Plextor America Support Team.

James Cleveland <x@gmail.com>  Tue, May 31, 2005 at 12:57 PM
Reply-To: James Cleveland <x@gmail.com>
To: Tech Support <x@plextor.com>
I discovered yesterday that there was a great software package written
for use with a linux operating system, that allows linux users to get
the most out of their drive!

However, it seems that this package was legally threatened by plextor
itself, for "unfair business practices".

Why is the company not developing for an OS because it is "too
expensive", and then sending legal notices to those who do?

Thanks for the swift responce.

--
James Cleveland
Tech Support <x@plextor.com>  Tue, May 31, 2005 at 1:23 PM
To: James Cleveland <x@gmail.com>
I will not get into the legal aspect of Plextor going after any company
for any reason... or not going after any company for any reason. That is
beyond the scope of my position, and quite frankly, beyond the scope of
my interest.

The bottom line is that Plextor does not support Linux. Nor is Plextor
obliged to support Linux in any way, shape or form.

As a Linux user, you should be aware that device driver support and
software support for the OS is sketchy at best. We all live with it, we
all deal with it, we all get by.

I use Debian at home and I use K3B. I can burn on anything that I throw
into any of my burners, and if any software vendor chooses not to
support Linux, my world doesn't stop spinning because of it. In short, I
deal with it and move on.

Thank you,

Keith.
Plextor America Support Team.


This post has been edited by tool++: Jun 1 2005, 23:13


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spath
post Jun 1 2005, 23:58
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QUOTE (spoon @ Jun 1 2005, 04:50 AM)
>Why don't you try it and report back then ?

I am not going to waste my time with you. If you wish to knock up an example program be my guest.
Funny, you wrote a ripper and you don't have a simple program skeleton
to send a single command ? And I guess you never heard of plscsi either ?
Google it ; it will allow you to test this sequence in 30 seconds and
see that it works. Anyway, it seems every time I explain that you're
wrong and suggest that you check it by yourself, you come up with the
same "I have no time" excuse. An excellent attitude towards learning,
keep going.

QUOTE (spoon @ Jun 1 2005, 04:50 AM)
>And why didn't you claim that it was wrong at the time ?

See above, your numbers were just that a list of numbers.
Err yes, that's how people usually write CDBs. Is the command you
found yourself not made of bytes that you could have compared to mine ?

QUOTE (spoon @ Jun 1 2005, 04:50 AM)
From what I can tell (looking back at old threads) you like nothing better than to rattle up developers of CD rippers questioning what they know with claims that YOU are fully in the know. But then again without actually writing a CD ripping program of your own that makes you all talk...
I spend 8 hours a day designing drives chipsets and writing firmware,
so I don't really feel like working on CD/DVD software in the evenings.
However, I still take the time to answer technical questions on various
forums and also to refute those who like to spread disinformation.
Just talk about what you really know and be correct, you will not
get any comment from me.
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yahknow1
post Jun 2 2005, 00:23
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"
I will not get into the legal aspect of Plextor going after any company
for any reason... or not going after any company for any reason. That is
beyond the scope of my position, and quite frankly, beyond the scope of
my interest.

The bottom line is that Plextor does not support Linux. Nor is Plextor
obliged to support Linux in any way"


And niether are we obliged to support [B]your drives with our[/B] money, (shape matter or form)pally!
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westgroveg
post Jun 2 2005, 00:40
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QUOTE
Today I have received a letter from a lawyer company based in Brussels, on behalf of Shinano Kenshi, the Japanese company that develops Plextools and Plextools Pro. They ask me to remove the project from the different locations. In their letter, they accuse me (and Alexander, who received another letter), of harming "their good name and fame" and of "unfair commercial practices".

So Pxscan was targeted too?
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Digga
post Jun 2 2005, 01:12
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QUOTE (westgroveg @ Jun 2 2005, 12:40 AM)
So Pxscan was targeted too?
what seems to be a responce (linked from the heise.de article): http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Plextor/
QUOTE
Additional note: pxlinux was supposed to be hosted on Sourceforge much earlier. However, a troll called beurktakeshima claimed that pxlinux violated intellectual property of Plextor, and he demanded that the project be rejected. Obviously, he does not want linux users to be able to use their Plextor DVD writers the same way as windows users. Another dicussion on this issue can be found there.

However, I personally do not see how his accusations could be true. It is highly unlikely that those commands are intellectual property of anyone.


This post has been edited by Digga: Jun 2 2005, 01:13


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Doktor_Lorenz
post Jun 2 2005, 01:57
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QUOTE (spath @ Jun 1 2005, 11:58 PM)
QUOTE (spoon @ Jun 1 2005, 04:50 AM)
>Why don't you try it and report back then ?

I am not going to waste my time with you. If you wish to knock up an example program be my guest.
Funny, you wrote a ripper and you don't have a simple program skeleton
to send a single command ? And I guess you never heard of plscsi either ?
Google it ; it will allow you to test this sequence in 30 seconds and
see that it works. Anyway, it seems every time I explain that you're
wrong and suggest that you check it by yourself, you come up with the
same "I have no time" excuse. An excellent attitude towards learning,
keep going.

QUOTE (spoon @ Jun 1 2005, 04:50 AM)
>And why didn't you claim that it was wrong at the time ?

See above, your numbers were just that a list of numbers.
Err yes, that's how people usually write CDBs. Is the command you
found yourself not made of bytes that you could have compared to mine ?

QUOTE (spoon @ Jun 1 2005, 04:50 AM)
From what I can tell (looking back at old threads) you like nothing better than to rattle up developers of CD rippers questioning what they know with claims that YOU are fully in the know. But then again without actually writing a CD ripping program of your own that makes you all talk...
I spend 8 hours a day designing drives chipsets and writing firmware,
so I don't really feel like working on CD/DVD software in the evenings.
However, I still take the time to answer technical questions on various
forums and also to refute those who like to spread disinformation.
Just talk about what you really know and be correct, you will not
get any comment from me.
*



Look it easy to criticize other peoples work and claim how brilliant you are, if your so brilliant describe your work exactly, who do you write chipsets and drivers for? Anyone can hide behind a parapet and snipe. If andres work behind EAC is so bad, do a better job than he can, it just sounds likes the bad old L33t days when some peeps would have nothing else better to do than slag off someone elses work.

Before you ask I cant code and probably never will be able to but what I cant' stand is this l33t ist BS. As I say if can you its upto you to really prove it, if not put up and shut up and prove you claims [if you have for time for everyone else in here that is].


To everyone else out there i'm sorry for rising to the bait but i'm sick of people who give that l33t ist BS who think they know better than everyone else on earth.


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