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iPod mini 2G stutters when playing LAME aps, Clock speed optimisation is the cause
earphiler
post Apr 27 2005, 03:55
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i just used the URL u gave me and told apple... hopefully a fix will be out soon, hopefully they care, and hopefully its not a hardware problem.
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NeoRenegade
post Apr 27 2005, 18:50
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So much for Apple's claims that the I-Pod supports MP3-VBR. rolleyes.gif
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earphiler
post Apr 29 2005, 23:13
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i wonder why we are the first to complain.. what are you going to do about it?

edit - i think i am going to transcode to 128 AAC

This post has been edited by earphiler: Apr 29 2005, 23:18
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earphiler
post Apr 29 2005, 23:26
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i think downgrading from 1.1 to 1.0 fixes the problem... i will report back once i've had extensive testing
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earphiler
post Apr 30 2005, 14:00
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i havent given it *insane* testing, but try rolling back your software to that of 2005-1-11 if possible with 2G minis... did the trick with my ipod photo.. at least it doesnt skip where it did before. will report back after days of listening

EDIT - nevermind i heard it skip, this really sucks, i think i might just sell it or take it back if theres no fix soon

EDIT 2- i'm sending it back and hopefully the replacement will fix it.

This post has been edited by earphiler: Apr 30 2005, 15:05
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earphiler
post May 2 2005, 04:03
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is this not an issue with 1G ipod photo 40GB and 60GB?

if so thats bizarre, because both 1G and 2G afaik clock at 15 hours. right?
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Pizzi
post May 3 2005, 13:11
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I'm encountering exactly the same problems with my iPod Mini 2G 6 GB.
I also have the stutter problem and I did an firmware update, hoping that would solve the problem. After updating I tested the Mini in the dock (which I normally only use for connecting the iPod to the PC for updating my music libary) with some 'problem' mp3's ... no stuttering any more w00t.gif .... I thought rolleyes.gif ... because after that the stuttering was 'reintroduced' while travelling by train (when the iPod is playing from battery).

Very complex and dynamic music (like Tool cool.gif ) stutters quite often and that really sucks, because I like my iPod very much and I think there isn't any good alternative for an iPod (flashplayers, Creative, etc. ... yuk blink.gif ), but an iPod with this problem also isn't heaven sad.gif

I've just filled in the form 'iPod Feedback' and i really hope Apple is gonna solve this problem, because it's very annoying.
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grug
post May 5 2005, 14:59
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It's not specific to the Mini.

I get the same problem with my 40GB 4G iPod, as do several people on a forum I frequent.

One thing one of them noticed...if you use the Rock EQ preset...the stutters go away. Other EQs do not have this effect. Can someone try it with their Mini?

This post has been edited by grug: May 5 2005, 15:02
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sehested
post May 6 2005, 09:45
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QUOTE (grug @ May 5 2005, 05:59 AM)
It's not specific to the Mini.

I get the same problem with my 40GB 4G iPod, as do several people on a forum I frequent.

One thing one of them noticed...if you use the Rock EQ preset...the stutters go away. Other EQs do not have this effect. Can someone try it with their Mini?
*

That works! biggrin.gif

When using an EQ setting other than flat/off the clock speed increases to 35 and stuttering is no longer a problem.

That's a good work around while waiting for Apple to sort out their problem.

Only downside is that it will be a bit more battery hungry.

I have updated the original post to reflect this new information.
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earphiler
post May 11 2005, 21:36
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cool thanks, only problem is that i returned my ipod to apple for repair and they said it passed the diagnostics, thus they didn't do anything to fix it.

DARN APPLE DARN
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earphiler
post May 11 2005, 22:30
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this is cool that it works with rock eq, but sort of lame too. i dont really like this equalizer. but if its the only way....
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jrkagan
post May 12 2005, 05:10
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QUOTE (grug @ May 5 2005, 08:59 AM)
...
I get the same problem with my 40GB 4G iPod, as do several people on a forum I frequent.
...
*

So wait...does this indicate that there is a processor difference between the 20GB and 40GB 4G iPods? As I mentioned previously, I have a 20GB 4G iPod, nearly my entire library is in LAME 3.96.1 -present extreme (some standard), and I do most of my listening with the equalizer set to "Off" (especially when playing through my main stereo system)...and I have never once experienced the stutter you all described.


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earphiler
post May 15 2005, 22:00
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hmmm, any way to fix this besides using the equalizers?

this really really is beginning to piss me off. it has to be a software problem , right?

EDIT- sehested , is there any thing you can do ? you are pretty good with ipods.

This post has been edited by earphiler: May 15 2005, 22:21
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sehested
post May 15 2005, 23:18
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QUOTE (earphiler @ May 15 2005, 01:00 PM)
hmmm, any way to fix this besides using the equalizers?

this really really is beginning to piss me off. it has to be a software problem , right?

EDIT- sehested , is there any thing you can do ? you are pretty good with ipods.
*

The only two work arounds I know of are:
- Use equaliser
- Transcode to AAC

Eventually I beleive Apple will come with a software update that will fix the problem.

However until then I meditate and pray that the force will be strong in me - allowing me to keep my cool. wink.gif
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earphiler
post May 15 2005, 23:23
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yeah if it isn't fixed in the next software update, i will raise hell (i.e sell my photo, and probably just buya 1G 60GB for a bit more; cross my fingers that one wont have the problem either)
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ChiGung
post May 16 2005, 00:04
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If making fresh vbr mp3s, I see some options which might help,
Latest versions of Lame can use 128 as minimum bitrate for some presets, but adding -b 128 to be sure and -F to stop it dropping to 32Kbs for silences could help.
- This issue is surely to do with power management and 32 kbs frames at the start of a track could be misleading the decoder.
Quality should not be hurt by this, and although the files will be bloated slightly, the bit reservoir could recycle alot of the spare bits.

Also at high bitrates like 192 and 224, 256, vbrs advantage over cbr becomes very marginal imbo.


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sehested
post May 16 2005, 10:56
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QUOTE (ChiGung @ May 15 2005, 03:04 PM)
If making fresh vbr mp3s, I see some options which might help,
Latest versions of Lame can use 128 as minimum bitrate for some presets, but adding -b 128 to be sure and -F to stop it dropping to 32Kbs for silences could help.
- This issue is surely to do with power management and 32 kbs frames at the start of a track could be misleading the decoder.
Quality should not be hurt by this, and although the files will be bloated slightly, the bit reservoir could recycle alot of the spare bits.

Also at high bitrates like 192 and 224, 256, vbrs advantage over cbr becomes very marginal imbo.
*

When using David Bowie - Five Years the test results are:
lame --preset standard : 165kbps - clock speed 24 - Obvious stuttering
lame --preset standard -b 128 -F : 169kbps - clock speed 24 - Obvious stuttering
lame --preset standard -b 160 -F : 180kbps - clock speed 24 - Stuttering
lame --preset standard -b 192 -F : 198kbps - clock speed 24 - Stuttering
lame -b 192 : 192kbps - clock speed 24 - No stuttering
lame -b 256 : 256kbps - clock speed 28 - No stuttering
lame -b 320 : 320kbps - clock speed 30 - No stuttering
lame --preset standard -B 192 : 150kbps - clock speed 24 - No stuttering
lame --preset standard -B 256 : 160kbps - clock speed 24 - No stuttering

Conclusion:
There must be a jump to 320 kbps in the VBR that the iPod can't handle by increasing its clock speed fast enough from 24.
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ChiGung
post May 16 2005, 11:30
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You do seem to have located the problem, Im surprised the -b 128 -F had little effect. It certainly Looks like Apples' bug rather than Lames unexpected agility.
Apple or someone who can dissasemble the firmware could fix this with a 'single byte hack' to up the power mode at 256 to 320's speed, with just a tiny hit in power drain...

Edit:
or does it look like, for vbrs the clock speed is static at 24 whatever the the range of bitrates :puzzled: Maybe the readout is not to be trusted, because there is a small observed improvement in > -b 160 but no observed clock speedup.

This post has been edited by ChiGung: May 16 2005, 11:40


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earphiler
post May 16 2005, 22:13
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I got annoyed by the skips. selling my 30gb with case for 325 shipped to someone...

great for me, i only lost 30 bucks after a month of usage.

it was 334 shipped with educational discount and 20 for case. so 354 total originally.


and yes i told them about the glitch, buyer doesnt care, he rips with iTUNES anyways smile.gif

contemplating 1G ipod photo 40GB/60GB or 2G mini (that has been thoroughly inspected and doesnt have the skip) 4GB/6GB

This post has been edited by earphiler: May 16 2005, 22:17
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Busemann
post May 16 2005, 22:31
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QUOTE (earphiler @ May 16 2005, 01:13 PM)
I got annoyed by the skips. selling my 30gb with case for 325 shipped to someone...

great for me, i only lost  30 bucks after a month of usage.

it was 334 shipped with educational discount and 20 for case. so 354 total originally.


and yes i told them about the glitch, buyer doesnt care, he rips with iTUNES anyways smile.gif

contemplating 1G ipod photo 40GB/60GB or 2G mini (that has been thoroughly inspected and doesnt have the skip) 4GB/6GB
*


You can be pretty confident Apple will fix it soon, as issues like this have occurred before and has been remedied by a firmware update. You also know that it dissapears with the EQ turned on, right?

In any case, it's not something that happens to just a few models. All 4G's, photo's and 2G minis seem to have it smile.gif
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sehested
post May 16 2005, 22:37
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QUOTE (earphiler @ May 16 2005, 01:13 PM)
contemplating 1G ipod photo 40GB/60GB or 2G mini (that has been thoroughly inspected and doesnt have the skip) 4GB/6GB
*
This is nonsense. blink.gif The 2G mini stutters for sure. sad.gif
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earphiler
post May 16 2005, 22:38
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it is truly ALL of them ? i dont think so. as stated before by a 4G user, he has never had a skip. its a software problem, but there's just quite a few unlucky units that have the stinkware in full effect.

oh well, either way, I want a 1G photo . axxories are the way to go; it really adds to the product's value and I can get a 60GB sealed for 393 shipped (Not ebay either)

edit- if im wrong, and all the versions stated skip with vbr, i'll sit on the purchase until (if) it is fixed.

i sent my ipod in stating the problem, and they said there was no problem. the techs didnt even acknowledge it. at the very least they could've said apple is aware and will be fixing it with software, but this isn't enough reason to give you a new unit.

but noooo, none of that.

This post has been edited by earphiler: May 16 2005, 22:46
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earphiler
post May 22 2005, 18:37
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just loaded up Nine Inch Nails - Right Where It Belongs (towards end is the major skip-test) on my dad's 2G 4GB mini, and it skipped sad.gif

if no fix comes out in the next 2 months, i'm going to buy a non-apple DAP. this is unacceptable and i'm getting impatient (although my 3G 15GB is suffice)
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Busemann
post May 22 2005, 19:16
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QUOTE (earphiler @ May 22 2005, 09:37 AM)
if no fix comes out in the next 2 months, i'm going to buy a non-apple DAP. this is unacceptable and i'm getting impatient (although my 3G 15GB is suffice)
*


I remember when the 3G iPods were released, a loud clicking sound happened between each song and the left/right channel swapped each time you hit pause. A couple of months later and a firmware update fixed it completely. The same thing will probably happen here as well (as long as they know about it) sleep.gif
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sehested
post May 22 2005, 23:08
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QUOTE (Busemann @ May 22 2005, 10:16 AM)
(as long as they know about it)  sleep.gif
*

I'm not really sure what is the most effective way to convey the problem to Apple.

The three "official" channels to report problems, that I know of are:
- Direct feedback through the Apple web site
- Posting the problem on Apple's discussion forums
- Contacting support by phone and demanding a solution, insisting them to report the problem to their second line support.

The problem with all three are that Apple do not provide any feedback or acceptance of the reported problem.


My personal experience with Apple support:

When I contacted Apple support by phone, they didn't know what LAME was. Their reaction was a shoulder shug as he suggestion to use the built-in mp3 encoder. After the supporter had conferred with someone else, he suggested that I visited iPodLounge or Apple discussion forums to look for a solution.

I informed that I was probably the first to discover the problem and had already posted on both forums. I suggested that he could get full details about the problem by searching for stuttering on these forums. I insisted, arguing that LAME has been used to encode the majority of mp3 files floating around in the world, that Apple should provide a software update that will fix the problem.

The supporter had to discuss the problem yet again with a collegue / superior. He promised to bring it to the developers attention and informed me that the developers do visit the Apple Discussion forums as well as gets the Bug report feedback.

The call took altogether about 30 minutes.

The only feedback I got was a case number... sad.gif


Anyway I still beleive Apple will eventually fix this problem, so I can't wait for the annoncement of the next update. smile.gif

@Busemann: I sure hope the right people know about it... wink.gif
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