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Which is the best lossless codec?, Discussion thread
kotrtim
post Nov 26 2004, 05:40
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1. LOWER COMPRESSION BUT HIGHER CPU USAGE
2. NO COMPRESSION MODE TO SELECT

EDIT : But compared with Monkey's Audio, WMA still use more power.

WMA = 34.0MB = ~13% CPU Usage
Monkey's Audio - High = 33.7MB = ~7% CPU Usage

This post has been edited by kotrtim: Nov 26 2004, 06:17
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rjamorim
post Nov 26 2004, 13:12
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QUOTE (kotrtim @ Nov 26 2004, 02:04 AM)
I've encoded a sample 5:39
but when I playback with foobar2000
WMA = 932kbps
FLAC = 860kbps
?????is this a bug?


Guess so...

QUOTE
this is the first time i test REAL,no kidding, REAL Lossless encodes very fast, comparable to FLAC-5, deocoding use less than 2% CPU usage with real player (P4 1.4GHz)


That's interesting. Thanks for mentioning that.
I just added an entry for Real Audio.

QUOTE
besides pro and cons list, i think this topic
should also have a comparison list, so that the reader can compare
and pick their desired codec

this is my proporsal

1 = Excellent/Superb
2 = Very Good/Very Fast
3 = Medium
4 = Slow/Poor
5 = Very bad/Very Slow

A Codec
Encoding Speed = 2
Decoding Speed = 1

Average Compression ratio = 55%

Error Handling = 3
Seeking = 1
Tagging = 1

Hardware Support = 3
Software Support = 1

ID Tag = Vorbis Comment

Container = OGG

Recommended Usage = Playback/archieve

Hybrid = Yes
Streaming = No
Open Source = Yes
Multichannel = No
High Resolution = No
OS Support = Windows Only
*


Interesting idea. I'll try to come up with a table comparing them.

QUOTE (sshd @ Nov 26 2004, 02:09 AM)
1. inefficient not unefficient


Oops. Thanks for correcting.

QUOTE
2. Neither FLAC nor Monkey (MAC) are error robust. A single bit error in a MAC file will render the file undecodeable. A broken FLAC file will be playable but probably cause error in player. FLAC and MAC have built-in error checking not tolerance. Error checking has nothing to do with "robustness" IMHO.


Well, I think I remember someone once reporting that new versions of Monkey's Audio would skip errors. Won't be able to find that post though...

And my idea was precisely to mention formats that would skip errors, opposed to formats that would break the playback from the error onward completely, like WavPack3, LPAC and so on.

Maybe I should change the wording?

QUOTE
3. Missing items on pro/cons list: Tagging system
*


Added, thanks.

QUOTE (BoraBora @ Nov 26 2004, 05:30 AM)
Another lossless comparison (in french, but the table is clear enough whatever the reader's language):

Guruboolez tests


Nice, just added the URL.

QUOTE
Maybe add an item "Still in development/Not developed anymore" ?
*


Hrm... I think it's kinda hard to draw the line there. Where does a format stops being developed? Shorten, as a format, stopped being developed years ago. But given its popularity tools for the format and playback plugins are still being developed, so I wouldn't say the format is really dead.

I guess that would only really apply to RKau (which I probably won't even add to this list) and, maybe, LPAC.

Regards;

Roberto.

This post has been edited by rjamorim: Nov 26 2004, 13:14


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Posts in this topic
- kotrtim   Which is the best lossless codec?   Nov 26 2004, 05:40
- - rjamorim   Thanks. I added "unefficient" to WMA...   Nov 26 2004, 05:50
- - kotrtim   roberto , i'm so sorry wma compression is a bi...   Nov 26 2004, 06:04
- - sshd   1. inefficient not unefficient 2. Neither FLAC no...   Nov 26 2004, 06:09
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE (sshd @ Nov 26 2004, 06:09 AM)2. Neithe...   Nov 26 2004, 14:40
|- - jcoalson   this table is nice, good to finally have a sticky ...   Nov 28 2004, 11:51
|- - sshd   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Nov 28 2004, 11:51 AM)QUOTE...   Nov 28 2004, 16:16
|- - sehested   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Nov 28 2004, 02:51 AM)for t...   Nov 28 2004, 17:13
- - BoraBora   Another lossless comparison (in french, but the ta...   Nov 26 2004, 09:30
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (kotrtim @ Nov 26 2004, 02:04 AM)I...   Nov 26 2004, 13:12
- - Garf   <zealot> I see no reason to put very fast d...   Nov 26 2004, 13:39
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Garf @ Nov 26 2004, 09:39 AM)<zealo...   Nov 26 2004, 13:53
- - kurtnoise   Some notes about RALF : I made some quick tests w...   Nov 26 2004, 14:44
- - guruboolez   I forgot: nice initiative Roberto. Two comments: ...   Nov 26 2004, 14:44
- - kotrtim   according to the player itself (Itunes n Real) App...   Nov 26 2004, 15:28
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Nov 26 2004, 10:40 AM)I...   Nov 26 2004, 18:36
|- - HansHeijden   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Nov 26 2004, 06:36 PM)Since...   Nov 26 2004, 20:17
- - guruboolez   Another suggestion: what about "adaptability...   Nov 26 2004, 18:52
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Nov 26 2004, 02:52 PM)Som...   Nov 26 2004, 19:13
- - guruboolez   I would say "none" rather than "bad...   Nov 26 2004, 19:17
- - kotrtim   QUOTE Haha, dude, you said yourself Real is very f...   Nov 27 2004, 04:48
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (HansHeijden @ Nov 26 2004, 04:17 PM)Ed...   Nov 27 2004, 21:33
- - Zurman   How about an overall notation system? 3 points for...   Nov 28 2004, 20:56
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE (Zurman @ Nov 28 2004, 08:56 PM)How abo...   Nov 29 2004, 10:18
- - BoraBora   About OS support: I understand what it means, but ...   Nov 28 2004, 23:50
- - WaldoMonster   Nice work. I'm missing native ReplayGain in t...   Nov 28 2004, 23:52
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (WaldoMonster @ Nov 28 2004, 07:52 PM)I...   Nov 29 2004, 00:34
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Nov 28 2004, 07:51 AM)for t...   Nov 29 2004, 00:26
|- - Zurman   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Nov 28 2004, 03:26 PM)QUOTE...   Nov 29 2004, 01:53
||- - dev0   QUOTE (Zurman @ Nov 29 2004, 01:53 AM)Just to...   Nov 29 2004, 06:33
|- - BoraBora   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Nov 29 2004, 01:26 AM)For l...   Nov 29 2004, 09:20
|- - jcoalson   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Nov 28 2004, 06:26 PM)QUOTE...   Nov 30 2004, 06:20
- - Tang   Hi, Very nice THREAD thanks to Amorim and every co...   Nov 29 2004, 07:20
|- - music_man_mpc   QUOTE (Tang @ Nov 28 2004, 10:20 PM)Recently ...   Nov 29 2004, 08:57
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE (music_man_mpc @ Nov 29 2004, 08:57 AM)...   Nov 29 2004, 10:40
|- - Tang   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Nov 29 2004, 01:40 AM)QUO...   Nov 30 2004, 04:35
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (dev0 @ Nov 29 2004, 02:33 AM)I don...   Nov 29 2004, 13:23
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Nov 29 2004, 01:23 PM)Indee...   Nov 29 2004, 14:22
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Nov 29 2004, 10:22 AM)Is ...   Nov 29 2004, 14:29
- - guruboolez   You're right. I had in might asymetrical with ...   Nov 29 2004, 14:34
- - GeSomeone   RJAmorim, I think it would be a good idea to add v...   Dec 2 2004, 13:42
|- - Faelix   QUOTE (GeSomeone @ Dec 2 2004, 09:42 AM)Anoth...   Dec 2 2004, 14:12
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (GeSomeone @ Dec 2 2004, 09:42 AM)I thi...   Dec 9 2004, 18:43
- - kurtnoise   For TTA : Encoding Speed : fast Decoding Speed : ...   Dec 9 2004, 19:21
|- - rjamorim   Excellent. Thank-you for the info. I just updates ...   Dec 9 2004, 19:45
|- - buzzy   Nice work. As some of the comments here suggest, ...   Dec 9 2004, 20:56
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (buzzy @ Dec 9 2004, 04:56 PM)As some o...   Dec 10 2004, 21:13
|- - buzzy   Sorry, the comment about hardware support was a re...   Dec 13 2004, 20:33
- - guruboolez   LA has both seeking and tagging functionality. I c...   Dec 9 2004, 21:08
- - Mindaxiz   EDIT: --post deleted-- Looks like TTA has been ...   Dec 9 2004, 22:44
- - Mindaxiz   Rjamorim, you either edited the table super fast o...   Dec 9 2004, 23:52
- - evereux   This spreadsheet is an excellent reference, thanks...   Dec 10 2004, 15:36
- - guruboolez   very slow seeking could be highly irritating. I ne...   Dec 10 2004, 15:48
- - rjamorim   Hello. I just added a new table design, and would ...   Dec 10 2004, 16:14
- - rjamorim   I just edited the main post. Here are some comment...   Dec 10 2004, 16:32
- - rjamorim   Since I was already playing with my test streams, ...   Dec 10 2004, 17:06
- - roweezy   WMAL / WMA Lossless 9.1 DOES support 24bit / 24-b...   Jan 1 2005, 04:23
- - Zurman   I think there's a mistak in the table : Monkey...   Jan 3 2005, 19:37
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Zurman @ Jan 3 2005, 03:37 PM)I think ...   Jan 3 2005, 19:48
|- - Zurman   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jan 3 2005, 10:48 AM)QUOTE ...   Jan 3 2005, 20:08
- - Erich w/ an h   are the percentages in the original post based on ...   Jan 10 2005, 10:22
- - Skymmer   Here is another suggestion and test... As you know...   Jan 22 2005, 04:36
|- - rjamorim   Thanks for that test you did. I am considering add...   Jan 24 2005, 00:05
- - jcoalson   even better would be if a codec could store all AI...   Jan 22 2005, 06:04
- - Skymmer   Quite agree but I'm pretty sure that formats w...   Jan 22 2005, 06:34
|- - jcoalson   QUOTE (Skymmer @ Jan 22 2005, 12:34 AM)Quite ...   Jan 23 2005, 18:56
- - Skymmer   OK. Again 10 seconds brown noise but without any m...   Jan 22 2005, 07:22
- - Skymmer   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Jan 23 2005, 08:56 PM)anywa...   Jan 23 2005, 19:53
|- - jcoalson   QUOTE (Skymmer @ Jan 23 2005, 01:53 PM)QUOTE ...   Jan 24 2005, 01:13
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Jan 23 2005, 10:13 PM)my co...   Jan 24 2005, 01:28
|- - kjoonlee   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Jan 24 2005, 09:13 AM)2. wh...   Jan 24 2005, 03:01
- - Skymmer   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jan 24 2005, 02:05 AM)Thank...   Jan 24 2005, 02:11
|- - jcoalson   QUOTE (Skymmer @ Jan 23 2005, 08:11 PM)QUOTE ...   Jan 24 2005, 08:57
- - adlai   my take as a dumb end-user. MAC is the best. Best...   Jan 24 2005, 02:35
|- - Skymmer   QUOTE (adlai @ Jan 24 2005, 04:35 AM)MAC is t...   Jan 24 2005, 02:57
|- - buzzy   QUOTE (adlai @ Jan 23 2005, 08:35 PM)MAC is t...   Feb 12 2005, 18:27
|- - johnsonlam   To be short: Everyone who create a free loseless c...   Feb 12 2005, 18:48
- - Synthetic Soul   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Jan 24 2005, 07:57 AM)QUOTE...   Jan 24 2005, 09:38
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Synthetic Soul @ Jan 24 2005, 06:38 AM...   Jan 24 2005, 14:52
- - m0rbidini   Is it difficult to guarantee full reconstruction o...   Jan 24 2005, 10:23
- - Synthetic Soul   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jan 24 2005, 01:52 PM)No fl...   Jan 24 2005, 20:43
- - Mindaxiz   QUOTE (Synthetic Soul @ Jan 24 2005, 02:43 PM...   Jan 24 2005, 21:11
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Mindaxiz @ Jan 24 2005, 06:11 PM)I am ...   Jan 24 2005, 23:33
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Erich w/ an h @ Jan 10 2005, 07:22 AM)...   Feb 2 2005, 04:54
- - guruboolez   I've selected one mono album for my classical ...   Feb 3 2005, 08:19
- - p0wder   I recently converted from FLAC to Wavpack in order...   Feb 3 2005, 10:10
|- - Polar   QUOTE (p0wder @ Feb 3 2005, 09:10 UTC)I'm...   Feb 3 2005, 12:39
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Feb 3 2005, 05:19 AM)I...   Feb 3 2005, 15:30
- - rutra80   How about adding to the "Tagging" row th...   Feb 8 2005, 20:35
- - WaldoMonster   Adding "PIPE support" to the table would...   Feb 11 2005, 15:46
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (rutra80 @ Feb 8 2005, 05:35 PM)How abo...   Feb 11 2005, 19:31
|- - WaldoMonster   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 11 2005, 10:31 PM)Well,...   Feb 11 2005, 22:43
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (buzzy @ Feb 12 2005, 03:27 PM)An examp...   Feb 12 2005, 23:17
- - johnsonlam   QUOTE One sentence: competition is good. I agree....   Feb 13 2005, 17:32
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