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How To Use Mp3 Gain ?, 3 guides - normalization - maximizing
karenchu
post Jul 2 2011, 10:46
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sorry for bumping but still, can anyone show me the path to "Each Folder Is Album" option?
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Typhoon859
post Oct 6 2011, 07:56
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Whether it's with MP3Gain or by scanning first through something else, how can I apply Album Gain by tags (not folder) the way there is an option for in Foobar2000 for instance? Help would REALLY be appreciated. Thanks.
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Typhoon859
post Oct 6 2011, 09:00
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QUOTE (Typhoon859 @ Oct 6 2011, 01:56) *
Whether it's with MP3Gain or by scanning first through something else, how can I apply Album Gain by tags (not folder) the way there is an option for in Foobar2000 for instance? Help would REALLY be appreciated. Thanks.

Nevermind, I figured it out.

After using Foobar2000 to apply ReplayGain, I right-click all the selected MP3 files, go to "Tagging", "MP3 Tag Types", and select APE to be enabled. Then MP3Gain reads the data from there.
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Typhoon859
post Aug 1 2012, 21:44
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QUOTE (karenchu @ Jul 2 2011, 05:46) *
sorry for bumping but still, can anyone show me the path to "Each Folder Is Album" option?


That.

Does the newest version not have that function any more?
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thebearnecessiti...
post Dec 20 2012, 16:58
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brand new user, total noob.

I noticed a couple of my mp3's sounded too quiet, so i want to get them all sounding the same.

can i install mp3gain, set the option "dont clip", add the my music folder, and click on album gain?

and that's it? will that make all my mp3's sound more at the same volume level?

edit: for people asking about "each album is folder" option, i read further back in tyhis thread that that option is not longer in the software and it allows you to simply add your top level folder eg "my music" and each subfolder is treated like an individual album.

i did notice an "add subfolders" option so might be worth making sure that is ticked.

This post has been edited by thebearnecessities: Dec 20 2012, 17:01
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greynol
post Dec 20 2012, 17:58
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QUOTE (thebearnecessities @ Dec 20 2012, 07:58) *
I noticed a couple of my mp3's sounded too quiet, so i want to get them all sounding the same.

It really depends on what genre and its respective mastering, but in general loud tracks are adjusted downward. If it turns out that you listen to genres where tracks typically get adjusted upward, you may want to consider lowering the reference level. This is more likely to be the case if you listen to classical music and some forms of jazz where the reference level of 89dB doesn't provide enough headroom for dynamic parts.


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thebearnecessiti...
post Dec 20 2012, 18:49
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thanks geynol for taking the time to post.

I'm a bit confused by all this and cant get my head round it. is the principle that each mp3 has a vlume setting within it and the mp3gain software tries t make them all about the same?

I mostly have rock, pop, indie, blue in my collection of about 300 albums.

I just noticed that one of the bon jovi tracks was very quiet so i decided to put my entire collection through the software so stop me having to do it every time i notice a track is a bit quiet.

so now it seems that i am likely to find all my music is a bit quieter?

the software is just over halfway though but i think its still doing album analysis so maybe i should just cancel?

This post has been edited by thebearnecessities: Dec 20 2012, 18:50
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greynol
post Dec 20 2012, 19:18
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I'd let it finish. From what you've said I don't think you're going to run into any problems.

Since you've also instructed the program not to allow clipping you won't need to worry about your chosen reference level except that some albums might still be louder than quiet ones which were not made louder because doing so would result in clipping. The higher you set the reference level, the more likely this is to happen.

This post has been edited by greynol: Dec 20 2012, 19:21


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DVDdoug
post Dec 20 2012, 21:37
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QUOTE
so now it seems that i am likely to find all my music is a bit quieter?
Right! Much of your loud music (maybe most of your music) will be somewhat quieter... Hopefully, you can get enough volume from the analog-side of things.

Let's say you have a quiet song and a loud song. The quiet song might have a few peaks near 0dBFS* (basically the "digital maximum"), but these short-duration peaks don't make it sound loud.

Now, if you want to adjust the loud & quiet songs for the same loudness, you can't increase the quiet song without clipping/distortion. So, you have to decrease the loud-sounding song.

MP3gain isn't trying to match all of your files to each other (or you'd have to re-scan everything every time you added a song). It's trying to match a target dB level. A higher target gain will make your songs louder, but it doesn't give MP3gain much "room to work", and many of your tracks won't be changed unless you allow clipping.



* Just to keep things confusing... 0 dBFS uses is a different reference than the +89dB SPL used for MP3gain. But they are related, and for example a +3dB change in the digital file is also a +3dB increase in sound level (SPL), etc.
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greynol
post Dec 20 2012, 21:42
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QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Dec 20 2012, 12:37) *
A higher target gain will make your songs louder, but it doesn't give MP3gain much "room to work", and many of your tracks won't be changed unless you allow clipping.

I'm pretty sure they are still changed, but just up to the point before clipping will occur.


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user512Harry
post Mar 28 2014, 14:41
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New User here, but not totally out of it.
I am really not wanting to lose my marbles on this, but it seems that "Clipping" the music adds noise, or does it remove part of the sound at the clipping points in the song that gets clipped? If that is what happens, then wouldn't it be better to analyze the tracks, then normalize those tracks the do NOT get clipped at your chosen db level, not allowing those that get clipped to be normalized(sort out the non clipped) then reduce or raise the db and then only normalizing the songs that don't get clipped again?
Although that seems to be more work, I would rather have the songs closer to a steady volume that to have the music clipped or distorted. I hate music I love to be damaged by bad ripping or poor sound control.
Just asking for some information. I know this hasn't been looked at now in almost 2 years.
Harry
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lithopsian
post Mar 28 2014, 15:17
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Clipping simply truncates the volume at any point where it exceeds a digital threshold (you can think of it as 1, or 100%). That truncation distorts the sound so you can consider it as noise if you like. It isn't pleasant to hear in any case.

However, the amount of clipping that occurs could be anything from a single sample (a few microseconds) of sound to every drum beat. In the first case, you simply won't be able to detect it. The second case you will want to reduce the volume of the whole track to get rid of 99% of the clipping. Removing 100% of clipping is unnecessary, although in practice, removing 99% of it means removing 100% of it.

You could attempt to find a reference level that allows all your tracks to be played without clipping, then find a gain that brings all tracks to that level. The more common approach of picking a level, applying the gain, then adjusting clipping tracks afterwards is more common, but it does mean that those tracks that would have clipped are then played more quietly than the level you picked. However, given the preamp gains that could be applied before the music is tested for clipping, this is the only practical solution. If you want to go at it the other way, just bear in mind that it will all break if you apply a preamp. Also, adding a single new track to your ripped collection could break everything by exceeding the threshold you picked.

A practical solution in almost every case is to apply a gain to normalise all your tracks (or albums) and not to adjust for clipping. Usually it will be OK and you won't be able to detect anything audible from the tiny amount of clipping that occurs. Only if clipping becomes an audible issue will you need to go further. Simply allowing adjusting of clipped tracks may be sufficient to avoid the clipping without causing too much volume change. Only in extreme situations should you need to go further.
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Dewey
post Jul 31 2014, 19:28
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Is it actually necessary to do this with modern digital audio tracks and newer iPods?

I ask because many years ago I had an MP3 disc player. I experienced lots of clipping so I used MP3gain to tune all my tracks down to 89db. But since then (well, like 10 years ago) I got an iPod classic (4th gen) and I have also ripped tracks from CDs or downloaded them from iTunes (etc) and it seems that when I convert them to MP3 the vast majority of tracks are >94db and MP3gain shows them in red (meaning they will be clipped). But are they really?

So all my MP3 tracks are <=89db and when I play through the Aux jack in my car I have to crank volume to max and still they are not very loud. The volume limit on my iPod is set at about 85% but I don't see that this would matter using the docking port instead of the earphone jack.

So, readers' digest version: is it really still advisable to reduce all MP3s to 89db to avoid clipping? Or can I just go with whatever db comes out of ripping tracks with iTunes?

Thanks,
Dewey


QUOTE (user @ Sep 1 2002, 12:38) *
MP3-CD album-based MP3Gain adjustment for newbies

written by Shadow RD
on: January 30, 2002, 03:44:40 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I made this list up for myself (yeah I'm a bit lame!) and I thought it may lessen questions to Snelg and help others in the process if I posted it:

------------------------------------------------------------
How To Perform Optimised Album-based MP3 Gain Adjustment For Multiple Albums of MP3s for putting onto MP3-CDs
------------------------------------------------------------


(1) Put MP3 files in sub-folders sorted by album

(2) Open MP3 Gain, adjust:
Options\Each Folder Is Album (tick)
Options\Add Subfolders (tick)
Options\Show Path\File (tick)
Options\Advanced\Performance (tick both boxes)
Options\Advanced\Enable Maximising Features (tick)

(3) Set Target "Normal" Volume to 89 dB (if not already)
- Using 89 dB for the target volume will probably ensure
that no clipping will happen even for older albums
with greater dynamic range
- if clipping does occur with 89 dB you will have to reduce
the value

(4) File\Add Folder - choose folder containing all the album
subfolders

(5) Analysis\Album Analysis - does MP3 Gain Analysis album
by album

(6) Modify Gain\Album Gain - normalizes the MP3 Gain of all
albums relative to each other and as close as possible
to 89 dB

(7) Order files by Max Noclip Gain column (first do Radio
Analysis if Replay Gain information is not there
anymore) and note smallest value in the column

(8) Modify Gain\Apply Constant Gain - select value noted in
(7) to increase files gain by (if this is 0.0 then do
not adjust volume)

------------------------------------------------------------
This should ensure that the MP3s of each album are of comparable loudness and that the overall volume level is optimised.

------------------------------------------------------------

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DVDdoug
post Jul 31 2014, 21:29
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QUOTE
I convert them to MP3 the vast majority of tracks are >94db and MP3gain shows them in red (meaning they will be clipped). But are they really?
Maybe... The MP3 itself may not be clipped. First, we need to switch our thinking from the acoustic domain where 0dBSPL is the threshold of human hearing and decibels are positive, to the digital domain where 0dBFS is the "digital Maximum" and decibels are mostly negative numbers (or zero).

The 89 or 94dB acoustic loudness reference isn't really calibrated since it depends on your volume control, and it's related to the average level and frequency content. Clipping is caused by the peaks which correlate very poorly with loudness.

You can have a quiet-sounding file with big peaks. If you try to boost that quiet-sounding file to match your louder music, it will clip. Since many of the quiet-sounding files can't be boosted (without clipping) the only way to match volumes is by reducing the loud files.

CDs, 16-bit and 24-bit WAV files, analog-to-digital converters (ADCs), and digital-to-analog converters (DACs) are all limited to 0dBFS. If you try to go over 0dB you'll get clipping.

Here's the tricky part... Mp3 is NOT limited to 0dB, so it can go over 0dB without clipping. But if you decode the MP3 and send the data directly to your DAC, your DAC will clip. I don't know if the iPod's volume is digital (before the DAC) or analog (after the DAC).

If it's a digital volume control, you can listen to an MP3 that goes over 0dB without clipping if you lower the volume. But, the amount you'd have to lower the volume is unknown because it depends on the peaks in the particular file (usually unknown), and the volume control isn't labeled in dB anyway.

QUOTE
So, readers' digest version: is it really still advisable to reduce all MP3s to 89db to avoid clipping?
Yes. you need to give MP3Gain "room to work" if you don't want clipping. I think by default MP3Gain is set to "Not Clip". If you try to to to 94dB without allowing clipping, MP3Gain won't do anything to maybe half of your files because they are already normalized (maximized) and they can't be increased at all without clipping.

QUOTE
Or can I just go with whatever db comes out of ripping tracks with iTunes?
Of course! But, you won't have the volume-matching you get with MP3Gain.

With iTunes and iPod, you can also use Sound Check, which is Apple's version of ReplayGain. (There are no settings/options for Sound Check and I don't know how the loudness of Sound Check compares with the 89dB default setting for ReplayGain/MP3Gain.)

QUOTE
(3) Set Target "Normal" Volume to 89 dB (if not already)
- Using 89 dB for the target volume will probably ensure
that no clipping will happen even for older albums
with greater dynamic range
- if clipping does occur with 89 dB you will have to reduce
the value
Like I said, with the default settings MP3Gain shouldn't clip. So, on a few albums/tracks where 89dB can't be reached without clipping, the target-volume won't be reached and these tracks will play quieter than 89dB. (There's no need to reduce the volume below 89dB unless you need to better-match ALL of your tracks, and then you'll have to change ALL of your tracks the the same volume below 89dB.)

This post has been edited by DVDdoug: Jul 31 2014, 21:56
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MrBruce
post Aug 19 2014, 23:34
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Hello, I have MP3Gain version 1.2.5.

I run an MP3 based music library for FM Radio Broadcasting.

Although there are much better music formats used for FM Broadcasting, I use MP3s because the tags are helpful for our DJs to know not only what song is currently playing but also the automated software shows the artist's name as well.

We do not get the same results with .Wave or other lossless audio files.

Our Genre consists of several types of music, including Classic Rock, Rock, R&B, Country, Techno and censored Rap music.

We are using an Behringer Brand Named, Ultra-Dyne Pro Digital 24-Bit Dual DSP Mainframe Model# DSP9024 6 Band Audio Processor just before our transmitter input.

Our MP3 collection came from LP Vinyl records, CDs and Cassette tapes as well as open source music websites where free MP3s are offered by bands looking for public recognition.

The biggest problems we face is playing music that falls under R&B and Techno. The music interferes with our stereo pilot signal and causes pumping effects and distortion to our FM carrier.

Such songs are "Clarity' by Zedd featuring Foxes, "Get Outta Of My Way (Bimbo Radio Edit)" by Kylie Minogue, "Summer" by Calvin Harris are a few examples of songs that tear up our FM signal.

We have used MP3Gain and tried to bring our music library to some what of a livable level.

We used the default level of 89.0, added the folder containing MP3s through the ADD FOLDER button.

Clicked the TRACK GAIN button and allowed it to do its job to our entire library.

The result was we had to increase the volume controls for the Rock and Classic Rock music, because their volume was reduced, however the R&B and Rap songs (Specially the ones listed above) are again pumping, distorting and causing issues with our FM stereo Pilot signal. (The FM STEREO light blinking.)

I can check the wave form and I can clearly see the wave form and its peaks have been greatly reduced by MP3Gain, however, the loudness is still there, which is something that confuses me. When I say loudness, I mean the music sounds like the volume setting is 160%!

I was under the impression that MP3Gain is supposed to make all the music sound at the SAME VOLUME LEVEL from song to song. This is NOT the case!

"Clarity' by Zedd featuring Foxes, "Get Outta Of My Way (Bimbo Radio Edit)" by Kylie Minogue, "Summer" by Calvin Harris are 170% over the 89.0 even though the wave form shows that the song's +/- peaks have been reduced. I used Adobe Audition 3.0 to view the wave form and it shows it was reduced, so I am a bit confused as to why the song is still over modulated.

I am assuming it is the low frequencies that causes the pumping as those songs have high levels of BASS.

Any thoughts on this?

Lastly, I realize this topic is about Glen's Mp3gain software, but has anyone heard of MP3Gain Pro? Link: http://mp3gain-pro.com/

I am curious if the MP3Gain Pro software is better and has anyone used it with positive results?

Bruce.
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zipr
post Aug 20 2014, 01:09
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Just a stab in the dark, but do the dramatic changes in volume occur if you play the mp3s on other equipment?
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MrBruce
post Aug 20 2014, 05:38
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QUOTE (zipr @ Aug 19 2014, 20:09) *
Just a stab in the dark, but do the dramatic changes in volume occur if you play the mp3s on other equipment?

If you are referring to me, we only play our MP3s on a Windows based computer which is connected to a mixer board and then our Behringer Ultra-Dyne Processor then the transmitter.

The automated software we're using is ZaraRadio.

When you say other equipment, what do you suggest we try?

Bruce.
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saratoga
post Aug 20 2014, 06:55
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QUOTE (MrBruce @ Aug 19 2014, 18:34) *
I can check the wave form and I can clearly see the wave form and its peaks have been greatly reduced by MP3Gain, however, the loudness is still there, which is something that confuses me. When I say loudness, I mean the music sounds like the volume setting is 160%!


I don't understand what you're asking. Replaygain reduces (or increases) gain in files so that they have similar perceptual loudness. As you have observed, this usually results in a gain reduction. What were you expecting to happen?

QUOTE (MrBruce @ Aug 19 2014, 18:34) *
Lastly, I realize this topic is about Glen's Mp3gain software, but has anyone heard of MP3Gain Pro? Link: http://mp3gain-pro.com/


I think its some scammer trying to profit off of the mp3gain name.
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MrBruce
post Aug 20 2014, 22:37
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QUOTE (saratoga @ Aug 20 2014, 01:55) *
I don't understand what you're asking. Replaygain reduces (or increases) gain in files so that they have similar perceptual loudness. As you have observed, this usually results in a gain reduction. What were you expecting to happen?


I am asking if MP3Gain is supposed to reduce the loudness of all MP3s why are the songs listed above still louder then the rest of our library.

You mentioned ReplayGain, we do not use ReplayGain software, only MP3Gain (TO Reduce) and ZaraRadio (To Play the songs).

Visually looking at the wave form in Adobe Audition before any reduction is done, those songs are so peak out that the track's Left/Right peaks are a solid wave form, the peaks top out and flat top on both the + and - peaks.

When we use MP3Gain at default 89.0, all the songs look the same visually in Adobe Audition, however, Those songs still play and sound like MP3Gain made them Louder than the rest. When those songs play, we have to turn the volume down on our Mixer board because those songs are over driving our transmitter.

Since our station is automated, this presents a problem, the problem is that most of the time no one is present to reduce the volume when the software chooses to play one of those songs.

Now, I only used three examples above, we have other new releases that present the same problem, over saturating our audio chain, while most play quite well.

I suppose, that without visual (Pictures) and audio samples included in this thread, it makes it difficult for any one to understand my concerns and my question.

Bruce.

This post has been edited by MrBruce: Aug 20 2014, 22:39
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saratoga
post Aug 21 2014, 00:22
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QUOTE (MrBruce @ Aug 20 2014, 17:37) *
You mentioned ReplayGain, we do not use ReplayGain software, only MP3Gain (TO Reduce) and ZaraRadio (To Play the songs).


MP3gain is a program that implements replaygain.

QUOTE (MrBruce @ Aug 20 2014, 17:37) *
Visually looking at the wave form in Adobe Audition before any reduction is done, those songs are so peak out that the track's Left/Right peaks are a solid wave form, the peaks top out and flat top on both the + and - peaks.

When we use MP3Gain at default 89.0, all the songs look the same visually in Adobe Audition, however,


You mean running them through MP3gain doesn't change the gain? If so, I would double check that you have used it correctly. I thought you meant above that you saw a gain reduction. If a file has a gain correction of -3dB applied, you should in fact see that it has had its gain reduced by 3dB. If not, then probably something has gone wrong.
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MrBruce
post Aug 21 2014, 01:47
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It does reduce the visual wave form, but not the amplitude of the sound.

I suppose I'll have to find a image hosting site and create an account to upload images of the before and after effects displayed by Adobe Audition. I also use a lesser known "Sound Editor" that is part of Roxio's "Easy VHS To DVD" software, it has sound capture abilities via a USB Dongle device for transferring VHS video tape and LP records.

It has the ability, just like Adobe Audition of displaying the wave form of the digital Left and Right stereo channels of a given sound file.

It shows the amplitude of the left and Right audio tracks.

Although MP3Gain reduced the amplitude, the tracks are still louder than other files in the same library.

Visually, yes I see a difference, but during play back, the songs are NOT the same level as the others on the speaker output.

Here is how I do MP3Gain.

I start the program, I click the ADD FOLDER button.

It opens a BROWSE FOR FOLDER window.

I choose C:\ MUSIC

It displays every MP3 in that folder.

It also shows both VOLUME and TRACK GAIN for each MP3 file.

The TARGET "NORMAL" VOLUME is default at 89.0 dB.

Next, we click the TRACK ANALYSIS button. (Do Replay Gain analysis on files)

The program goes down the list of MP3s and adds a red Y under the CLIPPING tab and also displays the TRACK GAIN under that tab.

When MP3GAin is done, we click the TRACK GAIN button and it starts going down the list again and removing the red Y and showing 0.0 in the TRACK GAIN column.

Now under ADVANCED OPTIONS, this is set to IDLE and the ENABLE "MAXIMIZING" FEATURES is unchecked.

Nothing under Performance is checked off in ADVANCED OPTIONS.

When it is done, there are a few files that still show a RED Y under the CLIPPING tab, but those are not the songs in question.

The VOLUME tab next to Path/File shows each MP3 close to 89.0 some might be 90.0 or 88.9 dB but they are close to 89.0dB.

During play back, all the songs are not the same in loudness, specially newer music from the last 3 years. It appears the loudness wars on CD based music is possibly part of the issue. BASS being pumped by audio compression techniques might be part of the problem, so take that into possible consideration.

I really hate to have to edit every song individually just to reduce the BASS (LOW FREQUENCIES) or the HIGH FREQUENCIES as anything pumping above 12KHz is going to pump the 16 KHZ pilot frequency needed for FM stereo decoding in an FM radio receiver. This causes the stereo pilot light to blink with each extreme amplitude boost from the HIGHS or LOWS of a sound file.

We are trying to avoid that as that causes signal splatter and spurs to other FM frequencies above and below our frequency. It also makes our music sound like noise, Noise that is not listenable for any length of time.

Distortion is what we are trying to avoid. Would you listen to any music if it is distorted? We can adjust our processing equipment to compensate one extreme or the other, but when the songs are louder than another or softer, we end up with either a condition of some songs being TOO QUIET or to make those sound okay, we end up with other songs being TOO LOUD.

We can not seem to get any 100 different songs to sound the same in volume intensity even using MP3Gain.

Okay, above I told you how we have MP3Gain set up to make all the files sound the same and how we are applying the effects. Are we using the correct options for an entire folder?

Bruce.

This post has been edited by MrBruce: Aug 21 2014, 01:59
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saratoga
post Aug 21 2014, 02:32
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QUOTE (MrBruce @ Aug 20 2014, 20:47) *
It does reduce the visual wave form, but not the amplitude of the sound.


Two possibilities:

1) Something in your hardware is raising the volume after decoding the file to compensate.
2) You've made a mistake.

You'll have to decide which is the case.
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MrBruce
post Aug 21 2014, 03:42
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QUOTE (saratoga @ Aug 20 2014, 21:32) *
2) You've made a mistake.

You'll have to decide which is the case.


Not sure what you mean by mistake. Can you be a bit more specific?

Bruce.
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saratoga
post Aug 21 2014, 04:33
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Mistake meaning that the quoted text above is not so. Either the amplitude didn't change or the volume did change.
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MrBruce
post Aug 21 2014, 06:14
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I realize presenting a copy of the content in question is the best option, however, since the material is not rightfully ours, any hosting of such contents, puts me at risk of Copy Right infringement and suspension of any hosting rights I may chose to host the music files in question. Even if I provide a snippet of it, the publishers and record labels have a right to complain and hold me responsible for breaking a federal law.
Without prior written permission, I can not share what legally is not mine to share. If see you are more into rock music, there are ways on the web to download a copy of "summer" by Calvin Harris. Download it if you can find a copy that the RIAA has not yet flagged and removed from MP3 sharing sites. Play the song and observe the BASS level of the unedited version without any reduction applied. Your BASS speakers will vibrate your entire house if the volume is loud enough. Same as that guy whose car stereo vibrates your house as he's driving down the street with his BASS boosters/cannons vibrating his car. Today, R&B (Jams) and Electronica are recorded with very low frequency sometimes well below 30Hz into the 20Hz zone. Rock music is recorded more in the mid range zone of 1KHz.

My point is, R&B music is recorded to sound loud. Listen to a radio station playing R&B, R&B today is also called JAMS, like MTV JAMS channel on cable TV. The music today contains a lot of BASS. Bass at that level can tear up a woofer if it is poorly designed.

That is what we were trying to control.

Bruce.

This post has been edited by MrBruce: Aug 21 2014, 06:27
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