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How To Use Mp3 Gain ?, 3 guides - normalization - maximizing
user
post Sep 1 2002, 20:56
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2004-08-16


Thanks to westgroveg, we have a brief summary of today's possibilities:



QUOTE (westgroveg @ Aug 16 2004, 12:28 AM)
This thread is always coming backup so here a few extra hints for users
  • Album analyses† calculates track/album values so performing an album analyses is all you need to do.





  • MP3Gain now supports writing changes to ID3 tag so it is 100% lossless, ie. completely reversible.





  • As of LAME 3.96 (track) replaygain values are automatically written to the lame tag,





  • Unlike MP3Gain, values stored in the lame tag need to be applied during playback which requires more CPU processing & the decoder to be aware.





  • Foobar can automatically scan & adjust replaygain values without any need for MP3Gain but of course some of us donít like this audio player.




  • One more thing, make sure, you tag before using replaygain or instead of your replaygain values being hidden they appear in the comment field for some reason which can be annoying.

*


This post has been edited by user: Aug 20 2004, 11:33


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AreteOne
post Nov 21 2002, 18:01
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QUOTE
with 2): For the very reason you mentioned: I want an exact reproduction, in terms of silences and even hiss (it can add that special flavor, think old jazz records). Silence is encoded at 32 kbps, in MPC even lower, so there's no problem.


I understand your perspective. For me, the silence issue is one of not wanting a bunch of seconds of silence on the front or back end of the track. For instance, the first song on the Counting Crows debut album has something like 14 seconds of silence. That's great for effect when looking at the album as an artistic entity, but if I add that track to a mix MP3 disc and play it in shuffle mode, everyone's going to wonder why the player quit working. It's not a file size thing, but rather a mixing thing. When I burn my own mix CDs, one of the important parts is deciding how much silence to put between each track - some tracks have little to none; I want them them to blend together while others needs more silence for the effect I want to communicate. As for the hiss, I should be clear that I'm only talking about the hiss at the very end of a track, where the song itself is over but the master tape hiss is still audible. I don't remaster an entire track. A lot of CDs are just plain lazy in cleaning this up in the mastering process and I find it very annoying that a great song has to end with hiss that sounds like it's from a casette tape copied three times from the original.


QUOTE
with 3): You obviously strive to boost the volume as much as possible (without clipping), however, the perceived loudness doesn't depend on the peak volume (compare dynamically compressed music with classical music). While peak normalizing usually adds some 3 dB noise, the loudness gain is maybe <1 dB with today's music productions. And don't forget that the music has already been peak-normalized in the studio.


Yes, I understand the difference between peak and average. I've found that -2db for peak is a number that lets me produce MP3s that don't clip. I should be clear that I'm reducing the amplitude when I do this, not raising it. I haven't had a track yet where the peak is more than -2db, and when I do get one, I'll leave it alone, since it don't expect that it would clip on encoding. The music that's been peak-normalized in the studio is what's producing clipped MP3's because they're highly compressed tracks with a peak of ~ -.5. I might find this changes the deeper I get into my CDs, but I went back and did an MP3Gain analysis on a bunch of MP3s I'd already encoded and well over half are clipping.

I'll try some more work with WaveGain, but my initial experience with it was less than positive, and this was partially because of how useful MP3Gain is. It's my understanding that CEP works at 32-bit and dithers down to 16 when it writes the file. Are we talking about 2 different types of dithering? And as for balancing the average volume amongst tracks with WaveGain, I didn't see anyway to pick my target without clipping and it gave me an average that was way too low, which I confirmed looking at the stats in AudioGrabber. But that's for another thread, and to be sure I haven't spent a lot of time with the program. MP3Gain makes complete sense, and its analysis tool is extremely helpful.


QUOTE
with 5): Why do you always want to increase volume? Many playback systems start to have problems at -3 dB below FS already. The reference volume in ReplayGain was introduced to have a safe, uniform volume level across the board. You put this ad absurdum. But i'm sure, one day you'll discover the great benefit of ReplayGain...


As I noted above, I'm almost always decreasing the amplitude as compared to the source. On the rare occasion I didn't need to, MP3Gain has shown that the opportunity to increase it exists. In the alternative, I could have gone back to source and re-encoded without the -2db normalization and wound up in the same place, and perhaps that would be a better way to handle it. The only playback systems I'm concerned about are mine, and I prefer to have the source of the music loud enough to not force me to crank up the volume to abnormal levels just to hear it. What I noticed about WaveGain is that it reduced the amplitude of the tracks so much they sounded like they were recorded under a pillow.

I'll be happy to explore ReplayGain further - after all, it's the foundation for MP3Gain, right?, and I'm very impressed with that, although I do find that the default goal of 89db is a bit too low for my liking, on an individual track basis. I understand that when the day comes to burn a 100 MP3 disc, there's going to be some softer (on an average volume basis) tracks and that the louder ones will have to come down because raising the softer ones will result in clipping. And, as has been pointed out, if, down the road, I find my MP3s are too loud, I can run them thru MP3Gain and kick them down a notch or two without any loss of information.


BTW - what does FS stand for? And what playback systems are you aware of that have problems as amplitude approaches 0db? Are you saying as average volume moves past -3db, or peak? I'm assuming it's peak.

I've only seen the math (and it's not in front of me) for a couple days on the relationship between % and db, but I seem to recall that -1db == 81%, and I know from the analysis that AudioGrabber does, most of the tracks I'm working with have an average around this (usually between 65% and 80%). I'm not trying to pin the VU meter in the red, but I guess, at this point, I don't see the problem with the MP3 itself providing "robust" volume so I don't have to crank the speakers up to 11 just to hear the music.

But I'm here to learn, and I appreciate this discussion.
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Posts in this topic
- user   How To Use Mp3 Gain ?   Sep 1 2002, 20:56
- - user   Here is a very short and simple description How t...   Sep 1 2002, 21:31
- - user   MP3-CD album-based MP3Gain adjustment for newbies ...   Sep 1 2002, 21:38
- - Vincent Kargatis   Is there a way to have mp3gain automatically pick ...   Sep 17 2002, 17:39
- - Vincent Kargatis   Well, no answer, so I assume no. Anyway, here...   Sep 20 2002, 10:01
- - westgroveg   QUOTE (user @ Sep 2 2002 - 08:31 AM)Here is a...   Sep 29 2002, 07:16
- - High Speed Dubbing   Thanx for the tutorial, been looking for help for ...   Oct 10 2002, 23:27
- - holkie   QUOTE (7) Order files by Max Noclip Gain column (f...   Oct 23 2002, 12:19
- - user   I sort never manually songs. The first 2 posts sa...   Oct 26 2002, 09:59
- - floyd   ok.. what about the best settings for mp3 portabl...   Oct 28 2002, 07:53
- - user   mp3gain: Hardware support is NOT required... mp3g...   Oct 28 2002, 10:20
- - gfly3   i have searched for the answer for this but could ...   Oct 29 2002, 04:03
- - Snelg   QUOTE (gfly3 @ Oct 28 2002 - 09:03 PM)i have ...   Oct 29 2002, 14:59
- - gfly3   clear enough ! and a great app. thanks a mi...   Oct 29 2002, 21:53
- - AreteOne   This looks like just what I need for MP3 discs. M...   Nov 19 2002, 05:42
- - Jan S.   WAVgain: http://www.answermonkey.net/App_WAVGain.h...   Nov 19 2002, 08:03
- - illdie4u   Hello, how fast does mp3gain work? How long would...   Nov 19 2002, 09:03
- - Jan S.   It's the analyse that takes the time, not real...   Nov 19 2002, 14:48
- - CiTay   Time to apply AlbumGain on 12 MP3 files (PIII 1.13...   Nov 19 2002, 17:36
- - AreteOne   Now that I've played with MP3Gain, I've go...   Nov 20 2002, 13:06
- - AreteOne   Providing the thread with some more information af...   Nov 21 2002, 14:32
- - CiTay   I don't agree with 2), 3) and 5) (the latter p...   Nov 21 2002, 14:43
- - AreteOne   QUOTE (CiTay @ Nov 21 2002 - 05:43 AM)I don...   Nov 21 2002, 15:17
- - CiTay   Why i disagree... with 2): For the very reason yo...   Nov 21 2002, 16:42
- - user   Not the best way: Bottom line.... MP3 creation pr...   Nov 21 2002, 17:11
- - AreteOne   QUOTE with 2): For the very reason you mentioned: ...   Nov 21 2002, 18:01
- - CiTay   QUOTE As for the hiss, I should be clear that I...   Nov 21 2002, 18:27
- - AreteOne   QUOTE 3) no, no, no (this is my opinion, if mp3 is...   Nov 21 2002, 18:49
- - user   "If there hasn't been any testing, how do...   Nov 21 2002, 19:07
- - AreteOne   QUOTE hmm, probably your misconception of mp3 Wel...   Nov 21 2002, 21:05
- - user   you know my opinion. to do it with the least time...   Nov 21 2002, 22:06
- - CiTay   Here's the file i mentioned before: overloadte...   Nov 21 2002, 22:37
- - tangent   QUOTE (AreteOne @ Nov 22 2002 - 04:05 AM)So, ...   Nov 22 2002, 05:29
- - AreteOne   QUOTE Here's the file i mentioned before: over...   Nov 22 2002, 10:45
- - AreteOne   QUOTE If you have been around for a while, the for...   Nov 22 2002, 10:55
- - tangent   QUOTE (AreteOne @ Nov 22 2002 - 05:55 PM)Yes,...   Nov 22 2002, 11:39
- - floyd   I got quite a bit of clipping in some Iron Maiden ...   Nov 22 2002, 11:49
- - CiTay   QUOTE (AreteOne @ Nov 22 2002 - 10:45 AM)Woul...   Nov 22 2002, 13:26
- - AreteOne   QUOTE This depends on settings used. -aps should c...   Nov 22 2002, 13:51
- - AreteOne   QUOTE Just listen to it. You shouldn't hear th...   Nov 22 2002, 13:57
- - CiTay   QUOTE (AreteOne @ Nov 22 2002 - 01:57 PM)Afte...   Nov 22 2002, 14:01
- - tangent   QUOTE (AreteOne @ Nov 22 2002 - 08:51 PM)Look...   Nov 22 2002, 16:56
- - illdie4u   Is there any problem if I set the output level in ...   Nov 28 2002, 08:51
- - user   if there is no clipping, all is fine. For those r...   Nov 28 2002, 08:57
- - illdie4u   But for portable reasons I want my whole collectio...   Nov 28 2002, 09:04
- - ronnie_t   what mp3-gain program should i use, and where can ...   Jan 5 2003, 12:53
- - Volcano   http://www.geocities.com/mp3gain/ If you wait a f...   Jan 5 2003, 14:48
- - ronnie_t   i use that version, but again, I can't follow ...   Jan 5 2003, 16:41
- - Bones   I just checked out that overload sample. I used a...   Jan 5 2003, 17:46
- - Volcano   ronnie_t: QUOTE Can I use an older version or doe...   Jan 6 2003, 15:42
- - Moguta   mp3gain claims to be a lossless change to mp3 file...   Apr 26 2003, 02:47
- - Volcano   The current (non-public) beta version of MP3Gain d...   Apr 26 2003, 11:58
- - Moguta   Sweet! Actually, a question occured to me... ...   Apr 26 2003, 19:02
- - Volcano   QUOTE Actually, a question occured to me... *CAN* ...   Apr 27 2003, 16:48
- - Moguta   QUOTE (Volcano @ Apr 26 2003 - 10:58 AM)I sup...   May 9 2003, 01:32
- - MadBison   I have an Archos Jukebox Multimedia 020. This is a...   Jun 6 2003, 00:16
- - Jebus   QUOTE (MadBison @ Jun 5 2003 - 03:16 PM)I hav...   Jun 6 2003, 03:38
- - AlfredSka   QUOTE (user @ Sep 1 2002 - 12:56 PM)- Outdate...   Jun 6 2003, 09:01
- - pepe,pepe!   I totally agree with Jebus the best way to use mp3...   Jun 7 2003, 01:46
- - RaWShadow   I have never used this mp3gain before and was wond...   Jun 26 2003, 22:42
- - CiTay   QUOTE (RaWShadow @ Jun 26 2003 - 11:42 PM)I h...   Jun 26 2003, 23:21
- - RaWShadow   Okay i think i understand now. I read the windows ...   Jun 27 2003, 00:25
- - Jebus   QUOTE (RaWShadow @ Jun 26 2003 - 03:25 PM)Oka...   Jun 27 2003, 00:48
- - AstralStorm   Auto Gain Control reduces/increases gain to match ...   Jun 27 2003, 00:55
- - Raffles   Am I right in assuming mp3gain is the same thing a...   Jul 26 2003, 01:33
- - 12345   QUOTE (Raffles @ Jul 26 2003, 01:33 AM)Am I r...   Jul 27 2003, 19:09
- - Pio2001   89 db reference question splitted here : http://w...   Aug 16 2003, 09:49
- - Agitator   Hi, I have some questions regarding MP3Gain. Let...   Dec 11 2003, 13:55
- - Hanky   @Agitator, This has been discussed many times befo...   Dec 11 2003, 14:14
- - Agitator   Thanks, I looked for something like that, but didn...   Dec 11 2003, 14:20
- - PeterGV   I've used MP3GAIN for quite a while, and I...   Dec 24 2003, 01:25
- - Squibbles1092   I just started MP3Gaining my files, but I couldn...   Dec 24 2003, 03:43
- - AtaqueEG   QUOTE (Squibbles1092 @ Dec 23 2003, 08:43 PM)...   Dec 24 2003, 05:34
- - TwoJ   Actually, not so If you load up a folder, each sub...   Dec 24 2003, 07:58
- - Squibbles1092   Ahh. Thanks. I queued up my entire folder with sub...   Dec 24 2003, 08:14
- - Jack Comics   QUOTE (user @ Sep 1 2002, 02:56 PM)- Outdated...   Jan 12 2004, 01:30
- - mj-barton   Once my semester finals are out of the way. I...   Jan 12 2004, 08:20
- - user   for mp3, you need EAC, Lame.exe, mp3gain, nothing ...   Jan 12 2004, 09:40
- - Moguta   I'm getting an error whenever I use MP3gain......   Jan 24 2004, 23:11
- - user   somebody requested in PM to me a rewrite of the mp...   Mar 17 2004, 21:18
- - Dr.Karnage   Maybe this has already been answered, but should I...   Mar 17 2004, 22:22
- - AstralStorm   MP3Gain is applied to the file - any player (inclu...   Mar 17 2004, 22:33
- - HiFiRE   Couple questions... I'm running MP3Gain 1.2.3...   Jul 4 2004, 02:02
- - Joelman   I'm brand new to this forum, and I hope I...   Aug 11 2004, 14:45
|- - Otto42   QUOTE (Joelman @ Aug 11 2004, 08:45 AM)Now, I...   Aug 11 2004, 15:36
- - Joelman   Thanks Otto-- Soundcheck has been problematic for...   Aug 11 2004, 15:54
|- - odious malefactor   QUOTE (Joelman @ Aug 11 2004, 06:54 AM)As for...   Aug 11 2004, 16:23
- - Joelman   QUOTE Of course, clearing the iTunes library and r...   Aug 11 2004, 18:35
|- - Otto42   QUOTE (Joelman @ Aug 11 2004, 12:35 PM)Can I ...   Aug 11 2004, 21:00
- - Joelman   Ok, just to be sure ( I have lots of tunes and tra...   Aug 15 2004, 19:04
|- - Otto42   QUOTE (Joelman @ Aug 15 2004, 01:04 PM)How ab...   Aug 15 2004, 23:16
- - westgroveg   This thread is always coming backup so here a few ...   Aug 16 2004, 00:28
|- - user   QUOTE (westgroveg @ Aug 16 2004, 12:28 AM)Thi...   Aug 16 2004, 09:32
||- - westgroveg   QUOTE (user @ Aug 16 2004, 08:32 PM)QUOTE (we...   Aug 16 2004, 11:15
|- - jth   QUOTE (westgroveg @ Aug 15 2004, 04:28 PM)[*]...   Aug 17 2004, 23:58
- - Joelman   QUOTE Of course, clearing the iTunes library and r...   Aug 17 2004, 14:15
|- - Otto42   QUOTE (Joelman @ Aug 17 2004, 08:15 AM)I...   Aug 17 2004, 15:32
- - Joelman   Thanks Otto42. Unfortunately it turns out a large ...   Aug 17 2004, 23:42
- - Joelman   Does anyone have a solution on how to fix the fluc...   Sep 23 2004, 13:52
- - Otto42   Joelman: The only suggestion I have left for you i...   Sep 23 2004, 15:38
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