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List of DAE Drive Features, EAC & CD Paranoia
westgroveg
post Mar 20 2005, 07:54
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QUOTE (rutra80 @ Mar 18 2005, 04:09 PM)
I would remove the Matching column along with blue colour (OK), and mark two columns (Overread & Sample Offset) with a good colour if overread & offset match, or with a bad colour if overread & offset don't match.
*


A drive with a 10 sample offset isn’t the same as a drive with 1000 sample offset.

QUOTE
It's also time to switch to PNG!

I tried but I get something like "dynamic links not allowed"
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rutra80
post Mar 20 2005, 08:47
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QUOTE (westgroveg @ Mar 20 2005, 08:54 AM)
QUOTE (rutra80 @ Mar 18 2005, 04:09 PM)
I would remove the Matching column along with blue colour (OK), and mark two columns (Overread & Sample Offset) with a good colour if overread & offset match, or with a bad colour if overread & offset don't match.
*

A drive with a 10 sample offset isn’t the same as a drive with 1000 sample offset.

I'm not sure what you mean here. If overread & offset match then it doesn't matter how big the offset is. And you don't seem to colour the Sample Offset column anyway.
QUOTE
QUOTE
It's also time to switch to PNG!

I tried but I get something like "dynamic links not allowed"
*


Strange, for me it works. Can you email me the XLS? I'll PM you my address.

Thanks, here's a quick view of how it would look like if my suggestions were applied:
I removed the picture
PNG works here, maybe try to upload to HA's Upload forum and link from there?
I'll remove this picture soon...

This post has been edited by rutra80: Mar 21 2005, 13:28
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westgroveg
post Mar 20 2005, 12:59
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What I mean is that if we have a drive with an offset of say 10 samples that can't overread it's not the same as a drive with an offset of 1000 samples that can't overread yet both drives would have the Sample Offset field marked red.

We would need to agree upon a color rating based upon how long the offset is & if the drive can overread.

Also can overreading into a non matching value be useful at all? if not then I agree a drive that can't overread into the corresponding value should be marked red

How did you get the positive symbols to appear in Excel? blink.gif

This post has been edited by westgroveg: Mar 20 2005, 13:09
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rutra80
post Mar 20 2005, 14:23
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QUOTE (westgroveg @ Mar 20 2005, 01:59 PM)
What I mean is that if we have a drive with an offset of say 10 samples that can't overread it's not the same as a drive with an offset of 1000 samples that can't overread yet both drives would have the Sample Offset field marked red.

We would need to agree upon a color rating based upon how long the offset is & if the drive can overread.

Also can overreading into a non matching value be useful at all? if not then I agree a drive that can't overread into the corresponding value should be marked red

In DAE, overreading into a non matching value is completly useless I think. Anyway, I have an idea of giving scores, so colour marking could stay simple as I suggest, and there wouldn't be a subjective limit where the non-matching offset becomes too bad.
The scoring could be like that:
1. If Accurate Stream is available then score = 1000, otherwise score = 0
2. If drive doesn't cache then score = score + 1000, otherwise score = score + 0
3. If C2 is available then score = score + 1000, otherwise score = score + 0
4. If overread & offset match then score = score + 1000, if they don't match then score = score - |offset|
So, score of Pioneer DVD-ROM DVD-106 would be 1000 + 0 + 0 - 102 = 898 rutra80 marks wink.gif
And score of Plextor CD-ROM PX-40TS would be 1000 + 1000 + 1000 + 1000 = 4000 (full scale)
That way even the website that evereux prepares could have a "Sort by score" option to view the best drive for DAE.
Of course weight of Accurate Stream, Caching, C2, or overreading & offset can be higher or lower than 1000.
QUOTE
How did you get the positive symbols to appear in Excel? blink.gif
*

You must format the cells as text and add a space before the positive symbol.

I noticed that you removed the Firmware column, why?

This post has been edited by rutra80: Mar 20 2005, 14:35
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Richard_Hsi
post Mar 20 2005, 17:54
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CODE
Type - SONY DVD-ROM
Model - DDU1621( FIRMWARE: s4.2 )
Accurate Stream - YES
Disable Cache - NO
C2 Error Info - YES ( But I suggest to set it No in EAC )
Overread I/O - NO
Sample Offset - +12


CODE
Type - SONY CD-RW
Model - CRX220E1 ( FIRMWARE: 6YS1 )
Accurate Stream - YES
Disable Cache - YES
C2 Error Info - YES( But I suggest to set it No in EAC )
Overread I/O - Only Lead IN
Sample Offset - +6
Writing Function Supported by EAC: NO



Besides, who can tell me whether the writing function of Pioneer DVD+/-RW Type 109 could be supported by EAC? and what is its read offset and writing offset? Thanks.

This post has been edited by Richard_Hsi: Mar 20 2005, 18:02


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AndyMutz
post Mar 20 2005, 19:45
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rutra80, there is a slight misstake in your table: the TEAC CD-W524E (result submitted by me) had firmware 1.0E, not 1.03E.

-andy-
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A_Man_Eating_Duc...
post Mar 20 2005, 23:04
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QUOTE (Richard_Hsi @ Mar 20 2005, 04:54 PM)
CODE
SNIP


Besides, who can tell me whether  the writing function of Pioneer DVD+/-RW Type 109 could be supported by EAC? and what is its read offset and writing offset? Thanks.
*

EAC doesn't support my Pioneer 106 DVD-RW for writing either.

make a EAC offset cd on a drive that has it correct write offset set and use that CD and EAC will find the offset for you.

Another way is

*Note - Gap detection|detection accuracy needs to be set to Secure on both drives first

Put a audio CD in to a drive that has the correct read offset set, press F4 to detect any gaps, then select a track and copy it to WAV format, it is also a good idea to rename the resulting WAV file to the name of the drive that you copied it off.

Put the same cd into the drive you want to find the read offset, press F4 to detect any gaps again, copy the same track that you copied orginally to WAV format and rename the WAV file to the name of the drive it was copied from.

Compare the two files and there is your read offset value (repeated samples will put a + in front of the value, missing samples will put a - in front of the value)

This post has been edited by A_Man_Eating_Duck: Mar 20 2005, 23:47


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westgroveg
post Mar 20 2005, 23:25
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QUOTE (rutra80)
The scoring could be like that:
1. If Accurate Stream is available then score = 1000, otherwise score = 0
2. If drive doesn't cache then score = score + 1000, otherwise score = score + 0
3. If C2 is available then score = score + 1000, otherwise score = score + 0
4. If overread & offset match then score = score + 1000, if they don't match then score = score - |offset|
So, score of Pioneer DVD-ROM DVD-106 would be 1000 + 0 + 0 - 102 = 898 rutra80 marks

Sounds OK to me, anyone have any suggestions?

The color rating for the Sample Offset could be:

If drive can Overread I/O = Yellow
If Offset & Overread match = Yellow
If Sample Offset is <1000 = Blue
If Sample Offset is >1000 samples = Red

Suggestions welcome too wink.gif

QUOTE
I noticed that you removed the Firmware column, why?

I didn't think it was necessary until we encountered a drive with non-matching features for different firmwares revisions.

PS: evereux's site is going to be pretty amazing, after it's finished I don't think we will need another DAE drive features DB. All drive features submitted to me will be imported into his DB & it might also contain The Coaster Factory entries too.

This post has been edited by westgroveg: Mar 20 2005, 23:35
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Eli
post Mar 21 2005, 00:46
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I think it would be better is there was an app to detect and submitt these features. Maybe spoon would be willing to write one to go with AccurateRip?


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evereux
post Mar 21 2005, 10:47
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Why is the sample offset boundary of 1000 used to determine the difference between blue and red, red I assume would mean bad? What is it about 1000 that suddenly makes the drive bad? How about we don't make that assumption at all in the table?


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spoon
post Mar 21 2005, 12:17
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QUOTE (Eli @ Mar 20 2005, 11:46 PM)
I think it would be better is there was an app to detect and submitt these features. Maybe spoon would be willing to write one to go with AccurateRip?
*


Many of the items would be difficult to automatically detect:

Manufacturer: No problem
Type: No problem
Model: No problem
Accurate Stream: No problem
Caching: This one is hit and miss to detect,
C2 Error Info: The firmware could lie about it's implementation / implementation could be poor you would need a cd with intentional errors
Overread: You would need a specific audio cd with sound data (values not 0) right upto the lead in / out, some drives when trying to overread just return 0's, you wouldn't spot this unless you had a cd as mentioned.
Sample Offset: No problem
Firmware: Is this drive specific?

AccurateRip contained pretty much all the items that could be autodetected with any audio cd, it has the Sample Offset and Accurate Stream.


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rutra80
post Mar 21 2005, 13:27
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QUOTE (AndyMutz @ Mar 20 2005, 08:45 PM)
rutra80, there is a slight misstake in your table: the TEAC CD-W524E (result submitted by me) had firmware 1.0E, not 1.03E.
*

It's not my mistake, it's westgroveg's mistake wink.gif
QUOTE (westgroveg @ Mar 21 2005, 12:25 AM)
The color rating for the Sample Offset could be:

If drive can Overread I/O = Yellow
If Offset & Overread match = Yellow
If Sample Offset is <1000 = Blue
If Sample Offset is >1000 samples = Red

Suggestions welcome too wink.gif
*

QUOTE (evereux @ Mar 21 2005, 11:47 AM)
Why is the sample offset boundary of 1000 used to determine the difference between blue and red, red I assume would mean bad? What is it about 1000 that suddenly makes the drive bad? How about we don't make that assumption at all in the table?
*

Yeah, that's what I'm talking all the time - if there will be scores there's no need for subjective limit where offset becomes too bad. For readibility & simplicity sake there also should be only 2 colours: green = good, red = bad, and both overread & offset columns should always have the same colour (green if they match and red if they don't match, so the Matching column can be removed). We can give more colours to scores but IMO it doesn't make sense either.

This post has been edited by rutra80: Mar 21 2005, 13:33
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tas
post Mar 21 2005, 14:20
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QUOTE (westgroveg @ Mar 7 2005, 06:21 AM)
This thread will be used to gather an accurate list of DAE drive features. Just post your drive(s) features in this thread & I will add them to my database.
E-mail me for the database file.
*


Just have a look over there:
(update also your posts at Digital-Inn and CD-Freaks!)

http://www.accuraterip.com/driveoffsets.htm
http://www.forum.eac-audio.de/index.php?sh...22offset-en.php
http://users.pandora.be/satcp/eacoffsets01.htm
http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/eac7.html

Perhaps you can combine those or work together with "accuraterip".As they collect drives features automatically some manual verification would be excellent.

cheers.

This post has been edited by tas: Mar 21 2005, 14:22


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westgroveg
post Mar 25 2005, 11:59
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QUOTE (tas @ Mar 22 2005, 01:20 AM)
QUOTE (westgroveg @ Mar 7 2005, 06:21 AM)
This thread will be used to gather an accurate list of DAE drive features. Just post your drive(s) features in this thread & I will add them to my database.
E-mail me for the database file.
*


Just have a look over there:
(update also your posts at Digital-Inn and CD-Freaks!)

http://www.accuraterip.com/driveoffsets.htm
http://www.forum.eac-audio.de/index.php?sh...22offset-en.php
http://users.pandora.be/satcp/eacoffsets01.htm
http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/eac7.html

Perhaps you can combine those or work together with "accuraterip".As they collect drives features automatically some manual verification would be excellent.

cheers.
*


All complete records from The Coaster Factory will be included in the DAE Drive Features Database evereux & I have been working on. I don't think there would be any easy way of importing the records from EAC-Audio.de & the other sources you have listed do not provide all the required fields.

First we want to get an initial version of the database up & running. After that we may explore better methods of detection & submission of DAE drive features to the database.

This post has been edited by westgroveg: Mar 25 2005, 12:13
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rutra80
post Mar 27 2005, 00:15
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Manufacturer: Philips
Type: 36x (it's a CD-ROM)
Model: PCA362CD
Accurate Stream: YES
Caching: NO
C2 Error Info: NO
Overread: NONE
Sample Offset: +686
Firmware: T6PP

Manufacturer: _NEC
Type: (it's a CD-RW)
Model: NR-7900A
Accurate Stream: YES
Caching: NO
C2 Error Info: YES
Overread: LeadIn
Sample Offset: +685
Firmware: 1.23
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DreamweaverN
post Mar 28 2005, 05:01
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CODE
Manufacturer - PIONEER
Type - DVD-ROM
Model - DVD-120
Accurate Stream - YES

Caching - NO
C2 Error Info - YES
Overread - Lead In
Sample Offset - +691
Firmware - 1.23

CODE
Manufacturer - ASUS
Type - CD-RW
Model - CRW-5224A
Accurate Stream - YES
Caching - NO
C2 Error Info - YES
Overread - Lead In
Sample Offset - +6
Firmware - 1.20


That is the info for both my drives smile.gif. The offsets were found using AccurateRip and is the value that is displayed in the offset field in EAC. I hope this information helps smile.gif.
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R.A.F.
post Mar 28 2005, 05:23
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CODE
Manufacturer: BTC
Type: DVD+-R/RW DL Recorder
Model: DVDRW IDE 16X
Accurate Stream: Yes
Caching: No
C2 Error Info: Yes
Overread: ? (how can I detect this?)
Sample Offset: +12
Firmware: A07M

CODE
Manufacturer: AOpen
Type: DVD-ROM Drive
Model: DVD1648/AAP  (Non-Pro Version!)
Accurate Stream: Yes
Caching: Yes
C2 Error Info: Yes
Overread: ?
Sample Offset: +738
Firmware: 1.07

This AOpen drive is following to the test in a famous german computer magazine (c't) one with the most reliable read-capabilities and also fastest! Often my BTC fails on scratched CD´s, while this AOpen still gets accurate results at the same CD (with C2-Error-Info switched off).

This post has been edited by R.A.F.: Mar 28 2005, 05:42


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westgroveg
post Mar 31 2005, 04:03
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Updates:
-Switched to Interlaced GIF
-Added positive signs for lead out offsets (hacky)
-Now showing firmware revision field


@ R.A.F.

Read the first post.

This post has been edited by westgroveg: Mar 31 2005, 06:32
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Duble0Syx
post Mar 31 2005, 05:58
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CODE
Manufacturer - PLEXTOR
Type - CD-RW
Model - PX-W4012A
Accurate Stream - YES
Caching - YES
C2 Error Info - YES
Overread - BOTH
Sample Offset - +98
Firmware - 1.06


CODE
Manufacturer - HP
Type - DVD-RW
Model - DVD Writer 200j
Accurate Stream - YES
Caching - NO
C2 Error Info - YES
Overread - LEAD IN
Sample Offset - +120
Firmware - 1.72


CODE
Manufacturer - LITE-ON
Type - CD-RW
Model - SOHR-5238S
Accurate Stream - YES
Caching - YES
C2 Error Info - YES
Overread - LEAD IN
Sample Offset - +6
Firmware - 4S07
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Duble0Syx
post Mar 31 2005, 06:09
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CODE
Manufacturer - ASUS
Type - CD-RW
Model - CRW-4816A
Accurate Stream - YES
Caching - YES
C2 Error Info - YES
Overread - LEAD IN
Sample Offset - +12
Firmware - 1.13
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VCSkier
post Apr 4 2005, 06:24
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what happened to the chart? i could see it last time i checked (a couple days ago i think). now i just see "user posted image." im using winxp w/ firefox.


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westgroveg
post Apr 4 2005, 13:35
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QUOTE (VCSkier @ Apr 4 2005, 05:24 PM)
what happened to the chart?  i could see it last time i checked (a couple days ago i think).  now i just see "user posted image."  im using winxp w/ firefox.
*

Yeah accidentally deleted it from the server. Fixed now & I also added the xls file for download (as I originally said I would) , if ever necessary the moderators can update the list & file too.
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VCSkier
post Apr 5 2005, 03:23
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yeah, its working fine now. thanks


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JuanK
post Apr 29 2005, 16:50
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Some days ago, I submitted a new entry but i made a mistake. I tried to email to you twice, but I got no reply. Please fix the table with these settings:
CODE
   Manufacturer: JLMS
           Type: DVD-ROM
          Model: XJ-HD163D
Accurate Stream: Yes
        Caching: Yes
  C2 Error Info: Yes
       Overread: None
  Sample Offset: +594
       Firmware: GHR8
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westgroveg
post Apr 30 2005, 08:42
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QUOTE (JuanK @ Apr 30 2005, 03:50 AM)
Some days ago, I submitted a new entry but i made a mistake. I tried to email to you twice, but I got no reply. Please fix the table with these settings:
CODE
   Manufacturer: JLMS
           Type: DVD-ROM
          Model: XJ-HD163D
Accurate Stream: Yes
        Caching: Yes
  C2 Error Info: Yes
       Overread: None
  Sample Offset: +594
       Firmware: GHR8

*

Will be fixed ASAP we have just been busy lately.

For corrections it will be best to contact Paul at paul@daefeatures.co.uk for now.

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