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Tag-standards In Plugins<->formatting, proposals and discussion
NEMO7538
post Feb 15 2005, 23:40
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QUOTE (Lyx @ Feb 15 2005, 02:35 PM)
But impossible to reliably detect in a formatting-string which is meant for general usage.
For example, i already support all kinds of weird methods in "Navigator" to detect VAs - but i would never support your proposal because it would result in all kinds of false-alarms with the majority of people.
*


obviously it is only usefull if you adhere to the solution; but retagging is painfull IMO, so I think so using this scheme is more convenient
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Lyx
post Feb 15 2005, 23:43
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QUOTE (NEMO7538 @ Feb 16 2005, 12:40 AM)
QUOTE (Lyx @ Feb 15 2005, 02:35 PM)
But impossible to reliably detect in a formatting-string which is meant for general usage.
For example, i already support all kinds of weird methods in "Navigator" to detect VAs - but i would never support your proposal because it would result in all kinds of false-alarms with the majority of people.
*


obviously it is only usefull if you adhere to the solution; but retagging is painfull IMO, so I think so using this scheme is more convenient
*



Do you really think, that its easier to enforce a directory-structure on users, than adding a tag? Think about it.


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NEMO7538
post Feb 15 2005, 23:47
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tagging is so slow with ID3V2 !
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Lyx
post Feb 15 2005, 23:51
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QUOTE (NEMO7538 @ Feb 16 2005, 12:47 AM)
tagging is so slow with ID3V2 !
*


Do you propose that we limit the decision of which method to use, by the mp3-format and the fact that there is a bug in fb2k which will be fixed in the next version?


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NEMO7538
post Feb 16 2005, 00:05
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QUOTE (Lyx @ Feb 15 2005, 02:51 PM)
Do you propose that we limit the decision of which method to use, by the mp3-format and the fact that there is a bug in fb2k which will be fixed in the next version?
*


I'll be happy with this new version but my undestanding is that a "standard" would only be relevant for formatting strings ... and I have mines already
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Lyx
post Feb 16 2005, 00:06
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Then nothing will change for you anyways. I've added a clarification to the first post of this thread - please give it a read.


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NEMO7538
post Feb 16 2005, 00:16
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QUOTE (Lyx @ Feb 15 2005, 03:06 PM)
Then nothing will change for you anyways. I've added a clarification to the first post of this thread - please give it a read.
*


ok
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topdownjimmy
post Feb 16 2005, 00:49
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Just listening to music from my iPod here, and realized the foo_pod component has its own timestamp format in IPOD_LAST_PLAYED_TIME. I have no idea how foo_pod works, or where that data comes from, etc. etc., but I thought I'd mention it since it seems relevant.
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Lyx
post Feb 16 2005, 00:54
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........ not foo_pod again.

Does someone know when this tag gets updated?


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jkwarras
post Feb 16 2005, 13:24
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QUOTE (Lyx @ Feb 15 2005, 03:54 PM)
Does someone know when this tag gets updated?
*

AFAIK, only when the song is played completely. But it's not really a tag, it's on the ipod database (as rating). foo_pod doesn't write anything to the file.


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Lyx
post Feb 16 2005, 14:49
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So, the "tag" is mostly meant for use with the ipod only?


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topdownjimmy
post Feb 16 2005, 15:07
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Can we come to a consensus on the time/date stamp issue?

I think everyone can agree to:

LAST_PLAYED = 2005-02-16 09:04:00

-adheres to APE date/time standard
-straighforward field name
-sortable
-immediately legible

The only other contender in my mind is PLAY_LAST for the field name, but the only motivation for this is a kind of abstract desire for field name consistency, nothing practical (as far as I know).
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upNorth
post Feb 16 2005, 15:29
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QUOTE (topdownjimmy @ Feb 16 2005, 03:07 PM)
Can we come to a consensus on the time/date stamp issue?

I think everyone can agree to:

LAST_PLAYED = 2005-02-16 09:04:00

-adheres to APE date/time standard
-straighforward field name
-sortable
-immediately legible
*
Looks perfect to me. Good name, easy to understand the contents, sortable without any modification.

QUOTE (topdownjimmy @ Feb 16 2005, 03:07 PM)
The only other contender in my mind is PLAY_LAST for the field name, but the only motivation for this is a kind of abstract desire for field name consistency, nothing practical (as far as I know).
*
The name sounds like a custom tag to ensure that a track is played after all other tracks, or something.

I would like a tag that has an obvious name (e.g. LAST_PLAYED), not a name I would have to deciper every time I see it.
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Lyx
post Feb 16 2005, 15:40
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Same as upnorth.


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jkwarras
post Feb 16 2005, 17:32
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QUOTE (Lyx @ Feb 16 2005, 05:49 AM)
So, the "tag" is mostly meant for use with the ipod only?
*

I guess so. It's also used by itunes and others players supporting the ipod, so I think it's only a ipod 'tag'. But, you should ask Aero (foo_pod developper) to be sure cool.gif

BTW, I also agree about the playtime format suggested.


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Killmaster
post Feb 16 2005, 17:59
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QUOTE (topdownjimmy @ Feb 16 2005, 06:07 AM)
Can we come to a consensus on the time/date stamp issue?

I think everyone can agree to:

LAST_PLAYED = 2005-02-16 09:04:00

-adheres to APE date/time standard
-straighforward field name
-sortable
-immediately legible

The only other contender in my mind is PLAY_LAST for the field name, but the only motivation for this is a kind of abstract desire for field name consistency, nothing practical (as far as I know).
*


Should we include time zone as well, or is that overkill? I currently use the play_stamp standard that someone came up with the foo_playcount thread, it looks like this:

2005-02-16T08:51:43+08:00
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topdownjimmy
post Feb 16 2005, 18:12
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QUOTE (Killmaster @ Feb 16 2005, 11:59 AM)
QUOTE (topdownjimmy @ Feb 16 2005, 06:07 AM)
Can we come to a consensus on the time/date stamp issue?

I think everyone can agree to:

LAST_PLAYED = 2005-02-16 09:04:00

-adheres to APE date/time standard
-straighforward field name
-sortable
-immediately legible

The only other contender in my mind is PLAY_LAST for the field name, but the only motivation for this is a kind of abstract desire for field name consistency, nothing practical (as far as I know).
*


Should we include time zone as well, or is that overkill? I currently use the play_stamp standard that someone came up with the foo_playcount thread, it looks like this:

2005-02-16T08:51:43+08:00
*



Overkill. The reason a standard is being introduced isn't so that everyone can know exactly when any other person's file was last played, but to make string formatting universal for .fcs and other string coders. It's acceptable for the information to be specific to the user, but the structure needs to be formalized.
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upNorth
post Feb 16 2005, 18:13
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QUOTE (Killmaster @ Feb 16 2005, 05:59 PM)
Should we include time zone as well, or is that overkill? I currently use the play_stamp standard that someone came up with the foo_playcount thread, it looks like this:

2005-02-16T08:51:43+08:00
*
Do you have an example of a situation when that would be useful?

Maybe we should consider adding location and weather info too? tongue.gif
2005-02-16T18:12:39+01:00LNORWAY.WMostly Cloudy(+1C)

As you might have guessed, I think that would be overkill... wink.gif

Edit: If formatting strings use $substr() to extract info, it wouldn't matter what kind of info you append to the "standard" format...

This post has been edited by upNorth: Feb 16 2005, 18:16
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ajax3
post Feb 16 2005, 18:24
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QUOTE (upNorth @ Feb 16 2005, 06:13 PM)
QUOTE (Killmaster @ Feb 16 2005, 05:59 PM)
Should we include time zone as well, or is that overkill? I currently use the play_stamp standard that someone came up with the foo_playcount thread, it looks like this:

2005-02-16T08:51:43+08:00
*
Do you have an example of a situation when that would be useful?

Maybe we should consider adding location and weather info too? tongue.gif
2005-02-16T18:12:39+01:00LNORWAY.WMostly Cloudy(+1C)

As you might have guessed, I think that would be overkill... wink.gif

Edit: If formatting strings use $substr() to extract info, it wouldn't matter what kind of info you append to the "standard" format...
*


laugh.gif
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Lyx
post Feb 16 2005, 18:25
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LOL, i vote for also including the mood and a short blog-entry :-)

But i agree with upnorth..... if we make it clear that the beginning should contain the proposed format, but any additional info may be appended to it, then this would be no problem - not even when sorting.

edit: it may be a problem for verification-purposes - because you cannot check it with length anymore then. But i guess there may be other methods to verify it without depending on the total length. Just checking for the first dash and the ":" should already provide a quite robust verification.

This post has been edited by Lyx: Feb 16 2005, 18:29


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topdownjimmy
post Feb 16 2005, 18:28
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QUOTE (Lyx @ Feb 16 2005, 12:25 PM)
LOL, i vote for also including the mood and a short blog-entry :-)

But i agree with upnorth..... if we make it clear that the beginning should contain the proposed format, but any additional info may be appended to it, then this would be no problem - not even when sorting.

edit: it may be a problem for verification-purposes - because you cannot check it with length anymore then. But i guess there may be other methods to verify it without depending on the total length.
*


Awesomeness.

Sounds settled. I'm going to put this in the wiki (for now?).
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Lyx
post Feb 16 2005, 18:31
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i'd say, enter a short WIP-note in the wiki. I'll write a short "script" in the first post about every agreed format + example-code. You can just take this script then, rephrase it with more nice words, and transfer it to the wiki.

edit: but for now, i'll do WIP in the kitchen wink.gif Will add the script later today.

This post has been edited by Lyx: Feb 16 2005, 18:33


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desigrid
post Feb 16 2005, 18:41
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QUOTE (topdownjimmy @ Feb 16 2005, 06:07 AM)
Can we come to a consensus on the time/date stamp issue?

I think everyone can agree to:

LAST_PLAYED = 2005-02-16 09:04:00
*


From a user's POV, I think this is fine. Although I initially suggested having a common initial identifier for metadata related to playback, I guess the majority do not concur on its practicality.

LAST_PLAYED is also starting to grow on me. Guess it's time for me to whip out my masstagger smile.gif.
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topdownjimmy
post Feb 16 2005, 18:44
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In wiki:
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...d_Tag_Standards

Also added an (empty) section to hold strings to convert popular PLAY_DATE and PLAY_TIME formats to this shiny new standard in masstagger.

This post has been edited by topdownjimmy: Feb 16 2005, 20:53
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Lyx
post Feb 16 2005, 19:14
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topdown: i would propose to create a new page for the tag-standards topic in the wiki. The amount of info including explanations and example-code will just become too big to place it on the frontpage.

Better just have a link on the frontpage with a small description below it why this may be interesting for users and devs.

Also, it may make sense to rename "accepted tag-standards" to "recommended tag-standards", because as it is, it may sound as if this means that foobar itself supports no other tag-formats.

This post has been edited by Lyx: Feb 16 2005, 19:16


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