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Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)
cybasoul
post Feb 4 2008, 13:45
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QUOTE (eliazu @ Feb 2 2008, 04:42) *
QUOTE (Hancoque @ Jan 31 2008, 07:13) *

I find V.I to be the best plugin to upmix stereo to 5.1. I've analyzed it a bit (default settings):
  • FL and FR are left unaltered.
  • FC is a simple 50/50 mix of FL and FR with an attenuation of 4.5 dB
  • The real magic is in the rear channels. The plugin does a tremendous job of extracting just the right portions of the FL/FR channels without producing any strange artifacts.
Usage instructions can be found in the Dolby Headphone thread.


OMG it's sounds perfect! exactly what i was looking for! thanx!!


I dont know much about the math and since behind sound editing and filtering, but I have a good year for sound and Im a slave to good sound, well to sound that sounds good to my.

Ive used V.I for a while now. V.I does sound better than channel mixer. But I use channel mixer because when I use V.I and try to skip to a part of a song while its plying (using the seek control), the sound jams as if its a scratch on an audio disc.

While on other hand, channel mixer is stable, yet it would be perfect if it produced sound that was good as V.I.

@skipyrich, dont take this is as a criticism, you did a good job on this one, thats why I have been using it for a while and still using it.

BTW, @skipyrich, thanks for the Matrix Mixer plugin, I always wanted a plugin that will make use of all of my 8 speakers. I use it to duplicate the front output to my side speaker. The effect is not true 7.1 surround sound, but at least the side speaker are not just on display any more. wink.gif

This post has been edited by cybasoul: Feb 4 2008, 13:55


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blahdy
post Feb 5 2008, 04:23
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QUOTE (Hancoque @ Jan 31 2008, 07:13) *
I find V.I to be the best plugin to upmix stereo to 5.1. I've analyzed it a bit (default settings):
  • FL and FR are left unaltered.
  • FC is a simple 50/50 mix of FL and FR with an attenuation of 4.5 dB
  • The real magic is in the rear channels. The plugin does a tremendous job of extracting just the right portions of the FL/FR channels without producing any strange artifacts.
Usage instructions can be found in the Dolby Headphone thread.



Another way to do something similar is like this:

1. Go to V.I.'s web site and download fLfR plugin, which provides front ambience based on L and R channels.

2. Download George Yohng's VST bridge for Foobar2000. His VST bridge only supports L/R channels, not multichannel, but is EXTREMELY stable and hardly EVER crashes on me.

3. Configure your DSP chain as follows:

1. A surround processor (ChannelMixer, Free Surround etc). I prefer Free Surround and play between Music Mode and 90 degrees phase shifting.

2. Load up George Yohng's VST bridge and bind it to fLfR plugin. You will notice quite a difference than traditional surround processing, because fLfR plugin will begin ambience processing on just L and R channels to bring more "liveliness" to front two channels. The surround rear channels and center channels are unaffected and produced naturally as is, since Youhng's VST bridge only supports L/R channels when sending to VST plugin.

If you use Free Surround as your surround processor prior to handing off to VST bridge, you can test whether its working or not, by chaining Channel Mixer after the VST bridge and subsequently try turning on/off front L/R channels in 6 channel configuration window. You will note that RL, RR, C channels are unaffected by whatever VST plugin does.


The only problem with this approach is that while it produces more interesting front L/R channels, the rear channels are unaffected, which are important when it comes to "feeling" the surround-ness in headphones. Either way, obviously it all depends on your ears and taste, but it sounds interesting to say at least.

However, one benefit gained from this is that you can also use other VST plugins (i.e. Cakewalk Boost11 dynamic limiter, various reverb effect plugins etc) to just control audio effects on L/R channels.

I think one feature request I'd like to add for ChannelMixer is being able to control per-channel volumes, even if the input audio is already upmixed to 6 channels. Right now, I can use ChannelMixer to selectively turn on/off individual channels on pre-upmixed 6 channel audio stream. But being able to set volume on them would be great too!


QUOTE
And why Prologic if you have a pure 2.0 source?
To doing upmix you should use Channel mixer, Matrix Mixer,...ATSurround plugin maybe.
And for reverbs you can use Vst plugins.


No, you don't use Prologic on a pure 2.0 source. But you can use it on 2.0 source that was encoded with DPLII. A matrix decoder with phase shifting can reconstruct / decode a DPLII encoded 2.0 source into surround sound and do a pretty decent job at it. Try downloading Free Surround DSP plugin by pro_optimizer and give it a try yourself on number of stereo records encoded using DPLII.

To test this yourself, download AC3/DTS Downmixer by pro_optimizer. Take a 6 channel source (5.1 surround material) and downmix it using AC3/DTS Downmixer using -90/+90 phase shifting with default mixing coefficients. Then take the produced stereo 2 channel file and upmix it again using Free Surroud and either play it on your surround system or chain it through Dolby Headphone. You'll see that RR/RL channels are almost accurately reproduced during upmixing process from 2.0->5.1.

You can try reading http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/surround-sound6.htm for beginners if you would like more information about how surround <-> stereo encoding/decoding works.

This post has been edited by blahdy: Feb 5 2008, 05:39
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byterhythm
post Feb 5 2008, 08:05
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@bertox: I'm using the latest versions of both foobar and the component

@skipyrich: This is my setup:

Winamp DSP Bridge: Enhancer 0.17 (Output: 16-bit)
Channel Mixer (6CH+Sub)
Advanced Limiter
...
Output set as: DS Primary Sound Driver
Buffer: 2000 ms
Output: 16-bit
No Dithering

I used 6CH setup for channel mixer, then foobars volume maxes out (100%).
Changing the volume using the toolbar or in the 'Playback' prefs page does nothing.

This also happens when I'm using ATSurround.
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cybasoul
post Feb 5 2008, 10:58
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QUOTE (byterhythm @ Feb 5 2008, 01:05) *
@bertox: I'm using the latest versions of both foobar and the component

@skipyrich: This is my setup:

Winamp DSP Bridge: Enhancer 0.17 (Output: 16-bit)
Channel Mixer (6CH+Sub)
Advanced Limiter
...
Output set as: DS Primary Sound Driver
Buffer: 2000 ms
Output: 16-bit
No Dithering

I used 6CH setup for channel mixer, then foobars volume maxes out (100%).
Changing the volume using the toolbar or in the 'Playback' prefs page does nothing.

This also happens when I'm using ATSurround.


and what happens when you remove the Winamp DSP Bridge?
I think I once tried Enhancer 0.17, I just cant remember what it did.

Anyway, this is my setup, and it sounds great... Well, for me:

Hardware:
1. Creative's s750 7.1 speakers
2. X-Fi Xtreme Music Sound Blaster 7.1 sound card.

Foobar setup: in this order

1. George Yohng's VST loader plugin, and loaded a couple vst to make lossy formats sound better since they are crappy on my speakers. Note that at this point, I only load 2 channel vst's. I think Im using about 5 filters, including a kick a$$ equalizer, a kick a$$ bass equalizer, and a damn good limiter.

2. Chanel Mixer, set the output to 6 channel, set upmix to off, redirect the LEF to the sub, leave satellites intact. Adjust the stereo widener according to the size of your room.

3. Load foo_dsp_vst plugin, this is not George Yohng's, its an older one, not sure by who.
I basically use it to load V.I vst which will fill up the empty rear channels since I didnt upmix in Channel Mixer. The out come is superb.

4. At this point I have 5.1 sound and still have 2 side speaker that are empty.
So I use Matrix Mixer plugin to copy FR and FL output to SR and SL respectively.

5. Advanced Limiter.

Note that I havent done any Resampling in foobar, since I do it with the sound card's divers.
The alternative is to load Resampler(PPHS) or Resampler(SRC) last in foobar and resample to 48k ultra mode. PPHS seems to be more forgiving to the CPU.

OUTPUT:
I use Kernel Streaming, although it can be argued that ASIO sound better (which I agree), but ASIO is a bit more heavy on the CPU, and its does not properly map all channels to the the sound card. Kernel Streaming seems to map all 8, correctly.

Sound card:

I use the creative's mixer: in Audio Creation Mode, with ASIO enabled.
Then I resample to 92k, or is it 94k? I cant remember since im at work. Anyway, it sounds beautiful. Resampling at this rate in foobar clocks the CPU.

Then I do some little configuring on the sound card.
I have never enjoyed music like this in my life, which is why I dont see myself using another music player.

NOTE: The only down side of this setup is the fact that you should stay way from the seek panel, because if you try to jump to a part of a song while its playing, the sound will jam(like a scratched CD), this is caused by V.I. But you should be able to change the level of foobar's volume with immediate effect.

This post has been edited by cybasoul: Feb 5 2008, 13:43


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blahdy
post Feb 5 2008, 20:46
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QUOTE (cybasoul @ Feb 5 2008, 04:58) *
NOTE: The only down side of this setup is the fact that you should stay way from the seek panel, because if you try to jump to a part of a song while its playing, the sound will jam(like a scratched CD), this is caused by V.I. But you should be able to change the level of foobar's volume with immediate effect.



It also crashes often too if you keep on accidentally try reseeking out of old habit.. But it's not really the V.I. plugin that causes it per se. I think the older VST Bridge may be buggy when it comes to interfacing multichannel audio. If you try loading V.I. plugin into George Yohng's VST plugin, it hardly ever crashes no matter what you do while playing -- but ofcourse, you only get L/R channels, not 5.1.... sad.gif
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patul
post Feb 6 2008, 03:08
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I have been using Channel Mixer quite very long time, and since I only use headphone (mostly at office). I use onboard AC97 compliant sound card, Realtek ALC655 with ASIO out provided by ASIO4ALL.

Here is my foobar dsp setup:

1. SSRC : Don't really needed, but since I want *consistent* sample rate throughout different sample rates input. I just put it at 48KHz and set the sampling quality at "High".

2. Noise sharpening : set the effect 20%

3. Equalizer

4. Channel Mixer : set the output to 6 channel, set upmix to off.

5. VST Bridge to load V.I vst. Sometimes I use Free Surround at this point (it produces louder sound).

6. Dolby Headphone wrapper : set the Room size as DH1: Reference Room.

I'm quite happy with the setup, and the result is quite different from original stereo material.

This post has been edited by patul: Feb 6 2008, 03:13
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skipyrich
post Feb 7 2008, 15:00
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2cybasoul: As I mentioned before, I'm not DSP professional, so I know that my DSP plugins is far from perfect smile.gif

2byterhythm: Volume is changing by output plugin, I have no ideas how to forbid doing that. Winamp DSP Bridge with shoutcast working fine for me, so the only suspicious is Enhancer...


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cybasoul
post Feb 7 2008, 15:03
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QUOTE (skipyrich @ Feb 7 2008, 08:00) *
2cybasoul: As I mentioned before, I'm not DSP professional, so I know that my DSP plugins is far from perfect smile.gif

2byterhythm: Volume is changing by output plugin, I have no ideas how to forbid doing that. Winamp DSP Bridge with shoutcast working fine for me, so the only suspicious is Enhancer...


I know, and as I said, I was not criticizing. I mean, I would be a hypocrite if I criticized it because Im using it like it. smile.gif


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blahdy
post Feb 18 2008, 22:57
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QUOTE (patul @ Feb 5 2008, 21:08) *
I have been using Channel Mixer quite very long time, and since I only use headphone (mostly at office). I use onboard AC97 compliant sound card, Realtek ALC655 with ASIO out provided by ASIO4ALL.

Here is my foobar dsp setup:

1. SSRC : Don't really needed, but since I want *consistent* sample rate throughout different sample rates input. I just put it at 48KHz and set the sampling quality at "High".

2. Noise sharpening : set the effect 20%

3. Equalizer

4. Channel Mixer : set the output to 6 channel, set upmix to off.

5. VST Bridge to load V.I vst. Sometimes I use Free Surround at this point (it produces louder sound).

6. Dolby Headphone wrapper : set the Room size as DH1: Reference Room.

I'm quite happy with the setup, and the result is quite different from original stereo material.


The above configuration, when used with Free Surround loaded after Channel Mixer will destroy surround information. Try turning off L/R channels using Channel Mixer's speaker control settings on first page while doing the above setup, and you will note that L/R channels get duplicated onto RL/RR channels, which obviously makes louder sound. This is like Convert Stereo to 4 channels DSP setup.

When using Free Surround, you want the Channel Mixer to be loaded after Free Surround DSP, not before. The only reason why you would want Channel Mixer loaded after Free Surround is if you want to test surround processing by turning on/off individual speaker channels (this is such an awesome feature of Channel Mixer!), and also if you want Channel Mixer's subwoofer / LFE redirection, which is not supported by Free Surround.

For V.I. VST plugin though, you do want to have Channel Mixer loaded beforehand in front, b/c V.I. wants to accept audio in 6 channel allocation format. While I love V.I. plugin though, I can't stand the instability of it used through VST bridge, so I don't really use it anymore other than to convert a 2.0 stereo into 5.1 ac3 file.
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fluffycat
post Mar 26 2008, 14:34
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(Argh, I had a post typed out and then stuff got deleted...) Hi, I've been using foo_channel_mixer for a short while now (changed from Convert stereo to 4 channels) and really like this plugin - thanks for making it and a great job on it, I like how it's quite customizable and very no-nonsense.

I just wanted to mention a very strange problem that's been happening - I'm running WinXP SP2 (please don't flame me) and foobar 0.9.5.1, and have been using foo_channel_mixer for a few days... but for some bizarre reason, today when I opened foobar my virus scanner avast! (4.7-1098) kept informing me that there's "a sample of adware Win32 VAPSUP.CU" detected in foo_channel_mixer.dll.

Personally, I think it's avast! just barking too much since aside from the utter lack of adware, it's been working perfectly OK the past few days (admittedly with foobar 0.9.4.4, but this error first started with that version, so I upgraded just to see if it helps but it hasn't) Problem is, now it won't let foobar use the component even if I tell it not to delete it.
I tried deleting the original, re-downloading it from the same place (skipyrich's wiki) but same error.

I have to leave a virus scanner on thanks to er... certain people, so I guess I'll wait a few days and see if they update their database so that this isn't affected... if not I'll change to something else

Thanks for all the hard work so far!

This post has been edited by fluffycat: Mar 26 2008, 15:12
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MusX
post Mar 26 2008, 15:11
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same problem here. latest avast antivirus viruses-database update make problem with foo_channel_mixer.dll
CODE
Win32:Vapsup-CU


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skipyrich
post Mar 26 2008, 17:22
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I've download foo_channel_mixer.7z from my site then send it to virustotal.com. Results:

foo_channel_mixer.7z (0/32): http://www.virustotal.com/analisis/5211a5f...c57f8e7325536bb
foo_channel_mixer.dll (0/32): http://www.virustotal.com/analisis/296a33f...b5425cc96692416


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alicroche
post Mar 26 2008, 17:51
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Hello,

Same thing here : Avast 4.7 detected signs of Win32:Vapsup-CU [Adw] in foo_channel_mixer.dll.

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MusX
post Mar 26 2008, 18:07
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QUOTE (skipyrich @ Mar 26 2008, 17:22) *
I've download foo_channel_mixer.7z from my site then send it to virustotal.com. Results:

foo_channel_mixer.7z (0/32): http://www.virustotal.com/analisis/5211a5f...c57f8e7325536bb
foo_channel_mixer.dll (0/32): http://www.virustotal.com/analisis/296a33f...b5425cc96692416

I think it's avast problem, anyway, I can't use it now, dll is blocked by avast :/


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MusX
post Mar 27 2008, 20:43
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newest avast virus database doesn't find any virus, so it was some avast problem. now solved


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Borisz
post Apr 8 2008, 13:19
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I have a problem with foo_channel_mixer, every once in a while it "forgets" to apply my lfe settings.

I use the plugin to create an extra lfe channel for stereo music on my 5.1 set, while leaving the stereo alone. The settings I use are: Output channels: 6, Upmix mode: off, Use Subwoofer enabled, Bass Redirection enabled with "Leave Satellites intact" and 60hz set to frequency. Everything else is untouched.

These settings will leave the stereo music untouched, and will generate some extra bass to my subwoofer.

The problem is that, every once in a while, the plugin will "drop" out of the dsp chain and not process the lfe redirection at all. This happens usually if I have Foobar open but not playing anything, and in the meantime I do something else like play a game in MAME. As I then return to foobar, the music plays without LFE. It also happens sometimes spontaneously, if I switch between music tracks often.
The only solution is either restarting foobar, or removing/readding foo channel mixer to the dsp chain.

I have no other DSP effects in use, and use default DS output with 2000ms buffer, 24bit data output, on my ALC889a onboard, latest version of Foobar. However, this same issue happened on virtually all setups I had before, including AC97onboard with Directsound output, and SBLive + KXProject drivers in Kernel Streaming. I think this happened even in older versions of foobar, but I'm not sure, it's been a while.

I've absolutely no clue how to fix this, and it has been bugging me for years.


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skipyrich
post Apr 8 2008, 17:57
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Borisz, please install foo_uie_peakmeter or similar to control which channels are actually worked. I have no idea why CM may forget its settings or even remove itself from DSP chain.
QUOTE
It also happens sometimes spontaneously, if I switch between music tracks often.

I've been clicking on 'Next/Random' during half a hour without any problem...

PS. BTW, kX + DS + multichannel never works for me.


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Borisz
post Apr 8 2008, 23:01
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I have peakmeter and it confirms my issue (actually, I used that plugin since the earliest version, it helped me track down this problem).

There's another problem I just noticed. With my current setup (described above), channel mixer should do nothing else but add an extra lfe, and leave everything else untouched. Under the subwoofer option, I also have it set to use the lfe channel for lfe, instead of generating a new lfe from every channel.

The issue I have happens with a 5 channel AC3 album, which has front stereo, rear stereo, and an lfe. No center. (the ac3 comes from the bootleg studio master DVD-A of Pink Floyds Dark Side of the Moon, by the way).

The actual problem is that, according to peakmeter, something is played in the center speaker, even though theres no center channel on the file! Removing Channelmixer from the dsp chain will make the file play normally.

The interesting thing is, that if I use my soundcard driver to exchange the center and lfe, foobar+channelmixer will sound as if I have removed channelmixer from the dsp.

Also, if I manually remove the channels from the channelmixer general config page, so it only plays this "extra" center, I can hear nothing actually coming from my center speaker. This is likely because low frequencies are played in this channel, which my speaker cant handle (my set doesnt have fullrange speakers). A peakmeter visulation confirms that extreme lows are played in this extra center channel.

What is even wierder, that if I mess around a bit in the same setting panel in channelmixer, enabling/disabling center/lfe while testing, I eventually end up with a silent LFE and an extra center being played - even though it should be the other way around (after reenabling all channels). So, this may be related to the disappearing LFE problem I have with normal stereo music.

screenshot:
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/3875/fubarcenterku1.png


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skipyrich
post Apr 9 2008, 00:07
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I'll try to shake up my brain with this info and will answer to you ASAP.
QUOTE
The issue I have happens with a 5 channel AC3 album, which has front stereo, rear stereo, and an lfe. No center.

It is a known problem. Some 5-channel music has lfe, but no center. Another tracks has center, but no lfe. I wrote CM for foobar 0.8.x, which does not allow to determine which channels are present in stream. 0.9.x allow to get this info, but it require to redesign DSP-part of CM from scratch...


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Borisz
post May 15 2008, 13:39
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Something else, may be related: "add low freqs" under upmix does not work together with subwoofer bass redirection. Setup is as above, just enabled copy upmix and low freq.


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skipyrich
post Jun 6 2008, 06:27
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Matrix Mixer (foo_dsp_mm) updated to 0.3:
+ Grid control instead of tons of edit controls.
+ Automatic matrix normalization may be switched off.

http://skipyrich.com/store/foo_dsp_mm.7z


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R1CH
post Jun 28 2008, 04:26
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Anyone have any luck with this with DirectSound output and CMI8788 (Oxygen HD Audio) drivers? It seems to hate 5 channel mode and results in an instant BSOD due a null pointer dereference in cmaudxp.sys. I patched up the driver to not crash and it just emits a nasty tone instead sad.gif.
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Kohlrabi
post Oct 26 2008, 23:30
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Maybe I don't fully understand this DSP, but I'm having problems with my setup and this plugin. I have a 4.0 setup on my PC, but I only audio played back on the rear speakers, so I tried "Move stereo to rear channels", which works for stereo material. But when I have 5.1 or 4.0 source audio this doesn't work anymore. My idead was using Matrix Mixer for that, and setting the front channels to zero, while sending the front audio to the rear channels. But this doesn't work, for some reason, regardless of my Matrix Mixer settings, I always end up with audio on the front speakers. Actually, when I set the FR/FL channels all to zero, the front channel audio will be played on the front speakers very silently. My expectation is that a certain value v in element xy means that speaker x will play back source channel y at volume v, while 1 means full volume of the source channel. With that I expect that setting a row to zero would defeat any sound on that speaker. But this doesn't happen, like I said above. So, am I missing something with this plugin?

Does anyone have any advice how to setup f2k so that audio playback will only occur on the rear channels regardless of channel numbers?


EDIT: well, looks like some problems with my Vista drivers.

This post has been edited by Kohlrabi: Oct 27 2008, 00:41


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sandeep108
post Oct 27 2008, 06:52
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QUOTE (bertox @ Jan 29 2008, 01:40) *
oh yeah baby!!! biggrin.gif

I can clip all channels together now and break off my soundcard, my amplifier, my speakers and my ears at same time and blown my brain. Yeeaaahh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Juajuajuajajarajakaka.biggrin.gif

This is the perfect plugin now. well...he doesn't Pizza for me...but it's ok.


You just add the Matrix plugin to the Channel Mixer and he becomes in greatest history mixing plugin.


Good luck and sweet dreams (you work hard...)

I have been using Channel Mixer since quite a long while, very happy with it - upmixes the mp3s to my 5.1 HT system quite well, have set it to what I like best by lots of experimenting. And it does seem to get some nice sounds into the rear channels (maybe I am dreaming?). Have updated to latest 9.6.5 settings have been maintained, all seems ok. Thanks a lot skipyrich.

Do I need the matrix mixer?

This post has been edited by sandeep108: Oct 27 2008, 06:53
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elenhil
post Oct 29 2008, 20:24
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I wish this plugin could automatically skip sources that are already 6-channel. While it does a marvellous job with stereo music, it's a shame to apply spatialization to an already perfectly channel separated and positioned multichannel music.
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RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 25th July 2014 - 00:19