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--alt-preset standard vs. my custom switches..., --alt-preset standard question!
adamlau
post Nov 30 2004, 08:52
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How does --alt-preset standard compare to my standard command line:

-b 160 -m s -h -p -V 0 -B 160 -F -t --vbr-new -Y
-b 256 -m s -h -p -V 0 -B 256 -F -t --vbr-new -Y

I have been perusing the site and it seems as if --alt-preset standard (aps) is the recommended LAME setting. Does aps use the new VBR encoding? Does apr include CRC-checking? And what is the -Y switch used for (I included the switch based on forum examples)? Does aps incorporate --nspsytune? Should it be b160 or b 160 (inclusion of a space)?

And what of the following option strings:

--alt-preset standard -p -Y -V 0
--alt-preset extreme -p -Y -V 0

I was thinking that the extreme example would serve my purposes as an all-around setting...

This post has been edited by adamlau: Nov 30 2004, 09:13


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larswes
post Nov 30 2004, 09:11
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With those bitrate limits it looks like CBR...
Use --alt-preset standard, extreme or medium.
Plenty of arguments on this forum already
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Digga
post Nov 30 2004, 09:12
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QUOTE (adamlau @ Nov 30 2004, 08:52 AM)
I have been perusing the site and it seems as if --alt-preset standard (aps) is the recommended LAME setting.
eagle-eye strikes again smile.gif welcome to the forum.
QUOTE
Does aps use the new VBR encoding?
no. which is not a bad thing. vbr new is faster, but not necessary of higher quality.
QUOTE
Does apr (...)
apr? typo?
QUOTE
How does --alt-preset standard compare to my standard command line:
-b 160 -m s -h -p -V 0 -B 160 -F -t --vbr-new -Y
-b 256 -m s -h -p -V 0 -B 256 -F -t --vbr-new -Y
your commandlines do not make that much sense to me, as you use e.g. '-b 160' and '-B 160', what really is kind of useless AFAIK. also '-m s' instead of joint stereo.

the presets have been tuned to give you the best possible quality in general. USE THEM.
aps is of higher quality than your custom lines.


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Digga
post Nov 30 2004, 09:34
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btw, it is not considered nice to edit posts other than for wrong spelling and wrong informations. make a new post next time in order to get a working discussion.


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adamlau
post Nov 30 2004, 09:35
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Will do...And thanks for the welcome =>)! Just a few more questions...

1. Should it be b160 or b 160 (inclusion of a space)?
2. Can options be strung together as in -xyz?

I was thinking that the following examples would serve my purposes as all-around settings:

--alt-preset standard -p -V0 -Y -t
--alt-preset extreme -p -V0 -Y -t

1. In the case of aps, is V being set to 0? What about ape?
2. Are VBR tags being written to the file in aps? In ape?
3. Does -Y reduce file size at the expense of frequencies over 16kHz? If so, then I would not use the switch in aps, but only in ape...

This post has been edited by adamlau: Nov 30 2004, 09:36


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Gabriel
post Nov 30 2004, 09:40
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I am wondering why your are using switches without knowing their behaviour or signification.

You would better use the unaltered presets.

Regarding your first question, the answer is clear: alt-preset standard is better than your custom command lines.
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Digga
post Nov 30 2004, 09:45
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QUOTE (adamlau @ Nov 30 2004, 09:35 AM)
I was thinking that the following examples would serve my purposes as all-around settings(...)
QUOTE
the presets have been tuned to give you the best possible quality in general.
if you did not notice any artifacts, use the presets without modifications regarding sound quality (there are known exeptions, browse the forum if intersted).

QUOTE
1. In the case of aps, is V being set to 0? What about ape?
huh? do have a real idea of what you are talking about here?
QUOTE
2. Are VBR tags being written to the file in aps? In ape?
aps=vbr. ape=also vbr. conclusion?
QUOTE
3. Does -Y reduce file size at the expense of frequencies over 16kHz? If so, then I would not use the switch in aps, but only in ape...
blink.gif and that is why?


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adamlau
post Nov 30 2004, 10:28
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QUOTE
1. In the case of aps, is V being set to 0? What about ape?
QUOTE

huh? do have a real idea of what you are talking about here?

Oops...Answered here: <http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=18091>. aps is to V2, ape to V0 by default.

QUOTE
2. Are VBR tags being written to the file in aps? In ape?
QUOTE
aps=vbr. ape=also vbr. conclusion?

I was wondering if the LAME tag was written to the file by default. I enabled this switch to disable writing the tag (thereby reducing filesize/overhead; the filesize/overhead savings possibly being an inconsequential issue).

QUOTE
3. Does -Y reduce file size at the expense of frequencies over 16kHz? If so, then I would not use the switch in aps, but only in ape...
QUOTE

blink.gif  and that is why?

Heh...Wanted to know if -Y reduces filesize or simply allow bits to be used elsewhere. That way I can either apply the switch to the reduction of bits within a certain frequency range or to further reduce filesizes. Excuse the confusion smile.gif !

This post has been edited by adamlau: Nov 30 2004, 10:36


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Lev
post Nov 30 2004, 10:40
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He's put "-p" in there as well.. I know this has been posted elsewhere (but I cant blinkin' find it!).. what does that switch do again?


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adamlau
post Nov 30 2004, 10:42
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QUOTE (Lev @ Nov 30 2004, 02:40 AM)
He's put "-p" in there as well..  I know this has been posted elsewhere (but I cant blinkin' find it!).. what does that switch do again?
*

Enables CRC "error protection. [A]dds 16 bit checks (the checksum is computed correctly)" to help verify files during transfers (i.e file sharing).


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Gabriel
post Nov 30 2004, 11:27
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QUOTE
I enabled this switch to disable writing the tag (thereby reducing filesize/overhead; the filesize/overhead savings possibly being an inconsequential issue).

You wan to remove the Info tag to save space but at the same time you are enabling crc check (-p)??? That is quite inconsistant.

QUOTE
Enables CRC "error protection. [A]dds 16 bit checks (the checksum is computed correctly)" to help verify files during transfers (i.e file sharing).

The mp3 frames crc will not change anything regarding file sharing, unless the file sharing application is checking this specific crc. But in practice, the do not check this crc.
This only informs a decoder that a frame is corrupted, so it can ask retransmission if possible, or use interpolation/muting/repetition strategies.

Once again, if you do not understand the meaning of an option, do not use it.
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2Bdecided
post Nov 30 2004, 11:38
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The thing is, the presets that are suggested on this site aren't anywhere near the best quality you can get from lame. No where near! Absolutely no work has been done on them, no one has tested them - they were just thrown together on a quiet Sunday afternoon, posted up here, and no one has ever checked them since.

Read through the list of lame command options, throw a few random ones together, use that setting and it will be far better than the "standard" and "extreme" presets suggested here. Your settings will actually work even better if you don't have a clue what the switches do - just try random letters and numbers and you'll get the best mp3s ever!

Whatever you do, don't use the search function, and don't read the sections in the FAQ which try to suggest that the presets are the best you can possibly do. All that stuff, explaining why "adding extra switches to the presets will almost certainly reduce quality" - ignore it - it's all lies!

wink.gif

Cheers,
David.

P.S. If anyone needs to sign up for the course "how to spot sarcasm a mile off" please PM me. smile.gif
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upNorth
post Nov 30 2004, 12:55
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Another entertaining thread, but I seriously wonder how incidents like this happen? How come some people that haven't got a clue, think they can outsmart everyone, even the developers? They hopefully know they couldn't develop an encoder themselves, and maybe they don't even know the first thing about the technologies involved, but they still think they know more about how to use the "finished" product, than the people that made it.

What is it that makes them think that common sense doesn't apply at all? How likely is it that an hours random tuning done by a random person, will seriously improve something that a group of people have been working hard on for years?

I bet a scientist would love to get hold of a specimen for experiments. It's likely that finding the mechanism that triggers such out-of-control self confidence, would be pretty useful for military purposes.

The sad part is that they have the interest, but waste their time doing useless "tuning". Time that would be alot better spent reading the FAQ, old posts, links and so on. And if they don't care about learning, they still make files with inferior quality.

Edit: spelling

This post has been edited by upNorth: Nov 30 2004, 12:56
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larswes
post Nov 30 2004, 13:28
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Well, now adamlau will be afraid of ever posting here again?
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Gambit
post Nov 30 2004, 13:49
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Hopefully. At least before he does a lot of reading.


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k.eight.a
post Nov 30 2004, 16:25
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QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Nov 30 2004, 02:38 AM)
The thing is, the presets that are suggested on this site aren't anywhere near the best quality you can get from lame. No where near! Absolutely no work has been done on them, no one has tested them - they were just thrown together on a quiet Sunday afternoon, posted up here, and no one has ever checked them since.

Read through the list of lame command options, throw a few random ones together, use that setting and it will be far better than the "standard" and "extreme" presets suggested here. Your settings will actually work even better if you don't have a clue what the switches do - just try random letters and numbers and you'll get the best mp3s ever!

Whatever you do, don't use the search function, and don't read the sections in the FAQ which try to suggest that the presets are the best you can possibly do. All that stuff, explaining why "adding extra switches to the presets will almost certainly reduce quality" - ignore it - it's all lies!

wink.gif

Cheers,
David.

P.S. If anyone needs to sign up for the course "how to spot sarcasm a mile off" please PM me. smile.gif
*

biggrin.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif tongue.gif
PS: Can't help myself... wink.gif

Edit: 2Bdecided's article has to be added to the FAQ, what do you think of it Pio2001? biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by k.eight.a: Nov 30 2004, 17:54


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c15zyx
post Nov 30 2004, 17:38
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On the Mac side at least, with special regard to iTunes-LAME, many people are misled because of the documentation that comes with the LAME CLI. For example, a number of people have posted on the iTunes LAME forum along the lines of 'I use [insert horrible flags here] commandline which sounds great to me' and 'presets are bad because they don't give you full control', or that -q 0 + -V 0 == best, and stuff like that. A lot of misinformation also shows up when people are switching from other encoding engines, ie. ms vs. js, etc.
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freakngoat
post Dec 1 2004, 00:27
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Yeah, it seems like when it comes to computers, a lot of people like to figure things out for themselves. Thing is, that is totally inconsistant with using a forum, in which other people have already figured something out and there's community consensus on it. Its always boggling when the people that use these home grown command lines even bother posting about it--its just backwards.

EDIT:

adamlau: Sorry buddy. You should just use the presets (or V settings) with nothing else added.

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adamlau
post Dec 1 2004, 01:28
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No harm, no foul in the quest for clarification...And yes I have read through --longhelp and the FAQ and more than a few forum posts...I posted because I still did not (and still do not) understand...

--alt-preset extreme -Y -t

1. Does -Y reduces filesize at the expense of a certain frequency range or simply allow bits to be used elsewhere (determines whether I retain -Y)?
2. Is the LAME tag was written to the file by default (determines whether I should leave -t)?

BTW, I will never be afraid to ask questions smile.gif ...Thanks all!

This post has been edited by adamlau: Dec 1 2004, 01:28


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c15zyx
post Dec 1 2004, 02:10
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QUOTE (adamlau @ Dec 1 2004, 08:28 AM)
2. Is the LAME tag was written to the file by default (determines whether I should leave -t)?
*


Yes, the LAME tag is written by default. But using -t to disable it is useless for VBR, because it will also disable the VBR information needed for correct time and seeking.
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adamlau
post Dec 1 2004, 03:45
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Excellent...Now about the -Y switch huh.gif ...


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Tec9SD
post Dec 1 2004, 03:58
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http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....7516#entry74068
Rather than going through and answering your questions I will leave it up to the search function where you will get full & indepth answers.

crying.gif Sometimes I wonder if someone isn't playing a twisted trick on us...

Oh thanks 2BDecided and others. It made the thread worth ...well... I dunno ..better?
Gabriel, you have my respect.
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Axon
post Dec 1 2004, 04:44
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QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Nov 30 2004, 05:38 AM)
<snip>
*

Oh, by all means, use the LAME documentation to find the settings right for you. Because hey, when the command line help, the USAGE, the manual, and the examples say exactly the same thing, who are you going to trust - the developers who wrote the documentation, or a bunch of forum hecklers?
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Gabriel
post Dec 1 2004, 09:35
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QUOTE
Is the LAME tag was written to the file by default (determines whether I should leave -t)?

Yes, it is written by default. But if you disable it, remember that you are also loosing the ReplayGain info and the gapless info.
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Gabriel
post Dec 1 2004, 09:37
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QUOTE
Oh, by all means, use the LAME documentation to find the settings right for you. Because hey, when the command line help, the USAGE, the manual, and the examples say exactly the same thing, who are you going to trust - the developers who wrote the documentation, or a bunch of forum hecklers?

Well, the USAGE file would need to be updated.
But it seems to me that the html documentation is not promoting "exotic" switches, is it?
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