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Is this r3mix.net?
floyd
post Aug 18 2002, 00:42
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Ookami

a) erase all users and make anonymous login possible so you can never have a agenda about person x (you can but you'll not know wink.gif

b) see a) 


That won't solve anything. Anonymous logins just create more problems, more flames. See the forums on www.firingsquad.com for a good example.
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Dibrom
post Aug 18 2002, 00:49
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Ookami
This is the main reason why I never got into audio processing (compared to video processing)! Politics, bickering, personal insults, yadda,yadda,yadda...

Back then, when I found R3mix I was amazed, at last a site with people that had a much greater knowledge than me. At last a site, where I couldn't find quotes like: "Audiograbber iz kewl"... BUT, then I saw the forum rolleyes.gif .

After the censor incident I switched over to HA, only to notice that it is the same here (not censoring, but politics).


Hrmm, that's too bad. However, you are making quite a generalization here if you believe that this disagreement is some how indicative of how everything works around here.

In the real world, people disagree. Especially in an open forum. It happen's everywhere. I am quite proud though that on HA, most of the disagreements that take place are at least of a higher mentality than those seen at most other places (/me seems to recall a fiasco about naming conventions for movies encoded with ogg vorbis......).

QUOTE
[b]Some recommandations:

a) erase all users and make anonymous login possible so you can never have a agenda about person x (you can but you'll not know wink.gif


I don't think so. Allowing anonymous access gives free reign to the trolls. It also removes all responsiblity from someone making a comment on a matter. People should be able to put their character behind their concerns, and not need to hide behind the cowardly guise of anonymity.

Any who doesn't have the balls to make their point with their own username here, IMO doesn't belong here at all.

QUOTE
[b]BTW, r3mix's preset was a big help in the MP3 scene, it is better than 99% of the default settings. The fact that r3mix tuned the preset for his own hearing is his own thing (how he "sells" it is another smile.gif ). Now, Dibrom's APS is better, so what's the point? Tommorow, maybe person x, will make a preset that is better than Dibrom's, if so will Dibrom's preset be worse than it is today?


First of all, let's seperate the websites from the presets.

The main issue at hand here is the inaccurate information on the r3mix.net website. That is really what the problem is, and it has little to no relation to how "good" either --r3mix or --aps is.

Secondly, trying to imply that --aps is not really so much better than --r3mix because it is still not perfect, [b]does not make it any less better
. We already covered that point somewhere here in the thread I think.

Building on that, --r3mix is no longer being maintained. The author knows it has flaws but refuses to address them. At least development with the --alt-presets is still possible (note that there's more than just --alt-preset standard out there), and probably even likely once I get done with my other projects.

Finally it's the idea behind the presets. Roel claims that --r3mix is perfect. It's not, and he knows it. I've never claimed that --aps is perfect. I also educate people about superior alternatives.
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JohnV
post Aug 18 2002, 00:54
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QUOTE
Originally posted by MyMaster
Should Dibrom be forced to close his site or change his beliefs of what "he" thinks is the "Best"?  I think not.
Firstable HA is much more than --APS. I'm a bit irritated that you say HA is (only) Dibrom's site, it's not. What makes HA what it is, is many knowledgeable people and developers, the sharing of the knowledge. Also the development of --alt-preset was a joint venture - Dibrom probably couldn't have done it as well all by himself.
It's never been HA's goal to be "Dibrom's site" in that regard that everything he'd say was gospel.

I'm going to close this thread now.


--------------------
Juha Laaksonheimo
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Pio2001
post Aug 18 2002, 00:54
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Is someone going to close this thread, or do I answer the last post of MyMaster ?
SometimesWarrior's last post would be a good start for another thread about the future HA Site's content.
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Dibrom
post Aug 18 2002, 01:00
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QUOTE
Originally posted by MyMaster
This is exactly what i believe, someday in this world of infinite possibities one person will come up with something better than Dibrom's -aps, so should you drop all your -aps encodes just because suddenly they're not good enough.  Should Dibrom be forced to close his site or change his beliefs of what "he" thinks is the "Best"?  I think not.  So this all comes to subjectivity.  What is "Perfectly Suitable" for one person may not be "Perfectly Suitable" for another.  Now why dont we put an end to the flame wars and let everyone else use or do what they find "suits" them best.


You've entirely missed the point here.

First of all, --aps is not Dibrom, and Dibrom is not HA. The system here is nothing like r3mix.net. I do not *push* the --alt-presets here and build the entire site around it to the degree Roel is. I do not think the --alt-presets are the "best", and I never make any claims that they are perfect. Instead, I focus on providing a forum for discussion about more objective observations, such as how well the presets may perform in a given situation, or what alternatives to the presets might be, etc, etc.

If the --alt-presets ceased to exist, HA would still be just as relevant then as it is now. If someone came out with something better than the --alt-presets (which I think is already the case with MPC, AAC, and to a degree Ogg Vorbis), then I would tell people this quite flatly. Well... what do you know, I already do wink.gif

We are not wanting sites like r3mix.net to go away simply because the methodogies they discuss are no longer optimal. That's only a very small part of the equation. The much larger issue is that much of the information posted there is [b]flat out wrong
. This goes far beyond even just the recommendation of --r3mix.net. I'm talking about testing methodologies. This even goes beyond sites that discuss their encoders directly. There are all kinds of sites out there which are full of complete BS that I feel exactly the same about. One perfect example is the infamous Airwindows site, which tries to make quality comparisons visually. I hope I don't have to explain why this utterly flawed.

Please make sure you're paying attention to what we're really discussing here, and that you understand the matter fully smile.gif
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