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Garf's tuned Ogg Vorbis GT encoder quality (was:The Definite
Garf
post Nov 21 2001, 15:23
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QUOTE
Originally posted by George_007

http://sjeng.sourceforge.net/ftp/vorbis/
Which file with which  switches?


The OggDrop encoders have a graphical interface and should be self-explaining.

OggEnc GT1:

-b 999 activates the tuned 160kbps mode

OggEnc GT2:

-b 128
-b 999 <- EDIT !
-b 350

activate the tuned 128, 160 and 350 kbps modes
respectively.

The 128kbps mode isn't really tuned but contains a workaround for the (IMHO) most audible RC2 problems.

I personally use the GT1 160kbps mode, but the same mode in GT2 should be just as fine. I just haven't tested it as much.

The tuned 350kbps mode should be perfect on any music clip you throw at it, including preecho nasties. If it fails, you still get the no-good-money-back guarantee.

Edit: goofed up the gt2 160kbps commandline

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Dibrom
post Nov 21 2001, 15:51
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Garf
The tuned 350kbps mode should be perfect on any music clip you throw at it, including preecho nasties. If it fails, you still get the no-good-money-back guarantee.


biggrin.gif

Actually the last time I tried (which I believe was with the latest encoder currently available) the 350 mode, death2 still wasn't perfect (as in transparent) on pre-echo...

If it'd be of any use, I could go back and try it again.
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Garf
post Nov 21 2001, 17:09
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Dibrom

Actually the last time I tried (which I believe was with the latest encoder currently available) the 350 mode, death2 still wasn't perfect (as in transparent) on pre-echo...

If it'd be of any use, I could go back and try it again.


If you wish, be sure to use the GT2 version. The 'stock' 350kbps mode isn't very good relatively speaking.

If you still hear problems, and I can't, I'll try to catch you on IRC someday (but not soon, too much work) and uptune it so you can give immediate feedback.

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Volcano
post Nov 21 2001, 21:50
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Garf
OggEnc GT1:

-b 999 activates the tuned 160kbps mode

OggEnc GT2:

-b 128
-b 160
-b 350

activate the tuned 128, 160 and 350 kbps modes
respectively.

The 128kbps mode isn't really tuned but contains a workaround for the (IMHO) most audible RC2 problems.
[...]
I personally use the GT1 160kbps mode, but the same mode in GT2 should be just as fine. I just haven't tested it as much.

Hmmm? So there is a difference between the GT1 and GT2 160 modes?

Could you explain this more closely, Garf? I have encoded a damn lot of music with either OGGDrop GT2 in 160 mode or with OGGEnc GT2 -b 999, that's why I'm asking...

CU

Dominic
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Garf
post Nov 21 2001, 22:55
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Volcano

Hmmm? So there is a difference between the GT1 and GT2 160 modes?


The modes themselves are identical, but the library where I put in the GT2 modes was RC2 + some fixes, whereas GT1 used a plain RC2.

The net effect is that GT2 files can come in about 5kbps smaller than GT1 files.

I know of no audible quality differences between GT1 160kbps and GT2 160kbps, so you might was well take the extra 5kbps savings.

I had already encoded a lot of CD's with GT1 before I made GT2. So most of my collection is GT1, not GT2. Thats why I said GT1 is better tested smile.gif

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Dibrom
post Nov 22 2001, 00:39
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Garf
If you wish, be sure to use the GT2 version. The 'stock'  350kbps mode isn't very good relatively speaking.


I'm pretty sure it was with the GT2, the encoder I used to test with was the latest oggdrop I could find in one of your threads about the tuned encoder awhile back.

At any rate, later tonight I'll try to test again just to be sure. I actually discussed this issue a little bit with ff123 and JohnV already, but I'm not sure if anyone else has tested/noticed this or not. Admittedly, the problems are very slight (PsyTEL for example isn't perfect on that clip either, though both come out sounding pretty good).

QUOTE
If you still hear problems, and I can't, I'll try to catch you on IRC someday (but not soon, too much work) and uptune it so you can give immediate feedback.


Ok, I'll let you know what I find.
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Volcano
post Nov 22 2001, 14:20
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Garf
The net effect is that GT2 files can come in about 5kbps smaller than GT1 files. 

I know of no audible quality differences between GT1 160kbps and GT2 160kbps, so you might was well take the extra 5kbps savings.

Phew, good, I was slightly worried...
This 160 mode is so cool, I think it beats everything else around for quality/size (OK, maybe not MPC, but then MPC isn't as flexible as Vorbis IMHO) - I love it! smile.gif

One last question: You said that with OGGEnc GT2 "-b 128, -b 160, -b 350 activate the tuned 128, 160 and 350 kbps modes respectively". So that means I could just as well use -b 160 instead of -b 999 when encoding with OGGEnc GT2?

EDIT:
QUOTE
Edit: goofed up the gt2 160kbps commandline

That takes care of my question then, thanks.

CU

Dominic
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Benjamin Lebsanf...
post Nov 22 2001, 18:40
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just lemme post an offtopic message:D

I love the GT2 160 mode cool.gif
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Garf
post Nov 23 2001, 14:25
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Blech!

I've encoded the first CD today where I'm not satisfied with the results.

Green Velet - Constant Chaos

Track 2 (Coitus) weighs in at 222kbps (the whole CD bloats my modes terribly) but still has preecho bad enough that I can easily hear it.

Also, track 8 (Technology's out of control) has noise masking issues just before the 5 minutes mark.

I haven't ABX'ed the problems, but the first one is obvious enough that I don't doubt it. I'm not as sure about the second one.

If you have the CD, you might want to check it out.

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Volcano
post Nov 23 2001, 18:24
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Hmm, well I've got one single track that causes trouble so far, but only one.
Ya want a sample, Garf (for testing)?

CU

Dominic
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