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Help hdd mp3 portable info needed (IPOD or Jukebox3)
jrbamford
post Aug 11 2002, 00:57
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Hi guys..

I've looked through the forum's past posts and found some information but I could really do with a discussion to guide me in my choice between these two models.. I am very interested in audio quality first and foremost.. i use mpc for all my computer music, and intend to remain doing so.. i'm just sick of waiting for mpc or any other format support in the old portables and am going to get myself my first hdd based player..

I just saw an IPOD today and nearly walked out with one (had there been an old 10gig model in stock i would of brought it, even tho the sales assistant claimed that using the PC software on it invalidates your warranty.. i was that blinded by techno lust wink.gif

Anyways heres the deal... I need to pick between them.. I think the ipod looked and felt amazing.. a big plus.. I can understand why some may think of it as under powered.. it was driving some proper headphones but the variety you get with portables.. JVC ones i think.. they must have been well sensitive that helped.. and being phones, not buds helped add a good bit of bass, another area where the ipod is said to lack... even in these ideal conditions i found 60% of the volume scale was useless.. I was in a shop that was fairly noisy.. but things started improving till it was probably plenty loud enough at about 7-8/10 ... going further revealed some tightening up of the sound perhaps... placebo perhaps as I read someone else in here saying it clipped.. but it didn't have a LOT of headroom .. this is a worry..

But still its soooooo nice... and so tiny and portable...

I've read its got 32meg buffer which it fills when it can (from a playlist say) with 7 full songs in about 20seconds.. then the hdd powers down... I like this for more than battery saving purposes.. more about stability whilst walking/cycling etc...

Newer firmware gives it an EQ, tho not as good as the rivals.. but also the ability to work with albums in an organisation way.. tho with multiple playlists i think a bit of work will help let you get whatever you want from it...

you charge the ipod through the firewire connection.. nice.. clean... the UK PC Ipods come with the AC adaptor for the firewire lead to charge from an outlet too.. again.. perfect

the negatives.. no getting files BACK off the ipod, as I use mpc on my whole collection about 100gig.. I'm not keen on keeping lame mp3s aside for my ipod to dip into, but will do if needs be and i go that route.. the jukebox's ability to get files back off it means i could encode and add, and then delete them back onto my main computer to save those lengthy lame encodes..

the afore mentioned lack of volume..

the enclosed battery compartment meaning that problems in that dept aren't easily fixable.. removeable on the jukebox3 again a good thing.. 2nd battery compartment for double the life...

The ipods simplistic interface may restrict certain things.. for example i don't know if you can do random seeks of albums.. I assume excessive searching is a battery crippler but I do know how much fun creating an almost radio station environment by randomly going through tracks is appealing.. especially on a 20gig loaded machine smile.gif dunno if this is possible on either, but more likely on the creative i think..

Then onto the jukebox3... the only other choice for me really.. I want transfers to be quick and have firewire.. so its down to these two for now.. i have USB2 too but no one seems to want to use it...

Bigger, bulkier meaning less portable.. I've heard that its got less buffer memory so more hdd access? tho its supposed to have good battery life, better than ipod without the 2nd battery.. so it must be sorted in that dept...

How is its skip free performance? how is its sound? I've read reviews where all 3 have allegedly been owned and compared.. jukebox3 comes out on top for sound apparently... now giving that ipod may be slightly volume limited this is important.. sure the creative upsampling 48khz bug is annoying but i dunno.. i have an SBLIVE.. use the SSRC plugin religiously but haven't really ever heard the difference that much...

clumsier interface, and one that has a lot of fixing still to be done on it so it seems.. but an interface that hopefully lets you do what u want smile.gif and i think i can handle the complexity.. i'm a programmer god dammit smile.gif

straight PC compatability is nice, tho the uploading software sounds like its a bit crap.. getting the music back off the hdd tho is a real effort saver on my part...

Ohh and it records. err.. ok without a built in mic to make it into a mammoth dictating machine, i doubt i'll ever use this facility..

I seem to recall it has a radio built in too.. i like this idea.. dunno if the radio is any good like..? can radio be recorded by the jukebox.. that'd be kind of neat for saving tunes u like to then let u get them later...


How do both fare playing gapless music? both pretty crap i assume? even if its a linear movement through a playlist or album? can it not preload the next tune? i've already said it should be in the ipods memory? I dunno this would be nice to be fixed..

I think it comes with an IR remote control.. kind of useful..

Ahh i dunno.. what to do.. and on that note.. anyone out there that owns or has had contact with these machines, please give me some advice and information.. which way do i go...
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jrbamford
post Aug 11 2002, 01:10
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forgot to add that long term i plan to add etymotic er-4p's to my chosen portable, this should help the under powered ipad, with its isolation, and i assume bass.. sure someone posted on here that they had this combo.. would really like to hear more from that guy smile.gif

i really would be interested to hear which was best, audio output wise.. if someone had access to both..

Cheers
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jrbamford
post Aug 11 2002, 14:06
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Another question is hdd noise... is it audible at all for each?

Also kind of related to quality but different.. are the outputs clean for both? large amount of hiss, and other electrical interference noise..?
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Phobos
post Aug 15 2002, 02:57
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i say jukebox 3 is better

the fidelity ownz, its not really bulky, just maybe as big as a diskman, it has fast transfers, firmware upgradable (newer codecs support), recheargable battery, and can be sued as a portable hd. I say its your best bet, just get agood pair of headphones, the ones bundled suck. I say get it no matter what unless the $ is an issue
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rjamorim
post Aug 15 2002, 04:45
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Phobos
i say jukebox 3 is better

the fidelity ownz, its not really bulky, just maybe as big as a diskman, it has fast transfers, firmware upgradable (newer codecs support), recheargable battery, and can be sued as a portable hd. I say its your best bet, just get agood pair of headphones, the ones bundled suck. I say get it no matter what unless the $ is an issue


Awwww... iPod is sooo cute. wink.gif


Anyway, I would believe iPod has more chances of getting an AAC firmware upgrade than Nomad. Apple is part of MPEG, and they already have shown they are willing to promote the AAC format (implementing a high quality encoder in QuickTime).

I mailed Apple asking for AAC support, and the answer was the usual. "Thank you for your suggestion, we are considering it, but nothing has been decided"

Regards;

Roberto.


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Get up-to-date binaries of Lame, AAC, Vorbis and much more at RareWares:
http://www.rarewares.org
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nebuchadnezzar
post Aug 15 2002, 07:32
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If you're gonna use the iPod with Windows, Ephpod lets you move files back off the iPod onto your computer. The latest version even lets you pick how it names the files as you move it back to the computer (for example, cure - disintegration - 01 - plain song.mp3 or just plain song.mp3 or whatever).

I've owned the Archos, Creative Jukebox and the iPod. Nothing even comes close to the iPod. The Ephpod software is AWESOME, not even a "hack" program... it's complete and worthy of a shiny production box.

I use the iPod with my Grado SR-80 headphones, and yes, volume is usually up at around 80-90%, but it sounds great. If you're really concerned, you can just get a small portable headphone amp... recommended with the Etymotics anyways.

Enjoy... and trust me... the iPod is the way to go IMNSHO.


--------------------
----------------------
Nebuchadnezzar

Tools I've found useful in my MP3 quest:

- Exact Audio Copy (www.exactaudiocopy.de)
- Lame (www.mp3dev.org)
- Andromeda (www.turnstyle.com)
- Helium 2 (www.helium2.com)
- WinAmp (www.winamp.com)
- Stereo Link (www.stereo-link.com)
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Phobos
post Aug 15 2002, 21:59
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QUOTE
Originally posted by rjamorim


Awwww... iPod is sooo cute. wink.gif


Anyway, I would believe iPod has more chances of getting an AAC firmware upgrade than Nomad. Apple is part of MPEG, and they already have shown they are willing to promote the AAC format (implementing a high quality encoder in QuickTime).

I mailed Apple asking for AAC support, and the answer was the usual. "Thank you for your suggestion, we are considering it, but nothing has been decided"

Regards;

Roberto.


ohmy.gif That would be hell of a reason to use the ipod, id love a hd player with ISO AAC support, but i still think that using it also as a portable hard drive would be cool, thats a must feature in ahd mp3 player
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jrbamford
post Aug 15 2002, 22:53
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Ok ipod is cool... I am definately down with that...

its supposed to have the best headphone amp out there (dunno if it upsamples or not as the creative does but thats not all that audible in my opinion)

I am concerned about the captured battery of the ipod.. someone on the ephpod mail list has an ipod whos battery is down to 4 hours now... nothing can be done about this...

The ipod is wicked and did sound nice and IS portable... smile.gif

How does the jukebox function in terms of playback options.. shuffle etc... jukebox has a feeble 16meg cache compared to ipods 32meg.. dunno tho.. how does it handle this? how is it with skips.. ahh... smile.gif

I've heard ipod.. nice.. looks nice... scratches nice tho.. not heard the new jukebox yet... so must wait till I have...

AAC codec support would be nice, not really tested this at all... wouldn't it only support the quicktime one? I dunno on this front tho.. I just plain don't know on anything yet smile.gif and they are expensive.. both


Thanks...

Jim
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