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foo_dumb, experimental new modplugin, by Kode54
deus-ex
post Sep 9 2004, 22:54
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Hello Kode54,

its me (deus-ex) again. smile.gif

You introduced a new modplugin named foo_dumb. I gave it a test run against foo_mod right away (just downloaded latest version 9.9.2004).
In comparison its soundoutput is not as clear as foo_mod utilizing bass.dll. It sounds softer, as if there's some textile between the speakers and
your ears. Also i found the .it-format support not as "balls on accurate" like provided with the bass.dll. I uploaded a file named Chris35b.it to
demonstrate this. At start of the second order (after ~8 sec. playtime) you'll hear a ~hiss~ sound which is intended to be there but foo_dumb
puts it too much into the foreground so that it sounds anoyingly wrong. Please also check foo_dumb with uploaded 303.it. It loses so much quality
against replaying with foo_mod.

Second file in the upload named F0x-Test.xm fails to be loaded with foo_dumb. It features some weird special undocumented Fasttracker tricks.
It does sound very uncommon but it is a very good test file i guess. Once Xmplay had problems with this file too, until i send it to Ian (Xmplay author)
so he was able and kind enough to fix it.

Visiting DUMB's homepage and checking its CVS on sourceforge it seems that the project came to halt since a very long time. Is that correct?
If so i hope you can maintain and fix the code for your plugin if necessary.
Btw., everytime you update one of your plugins i wonder what has changed. Recently you updated foo_mod (my favorite plugin) and foo_dumb
quite often though their version number did'nt change. Maybe you can put a little file_id.diz or readme.txt along with the plugin mentioning the
changes if its not too much to ask for?

One suggestion/question please: (don't beat me for asking this) biggrin.gif
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
I don't know if bass.dll/dumb library provides necessary data but is it possible to have pattern view like in Xmplay?


Edited 18-10-2004: Downloadlink as a service for new threadvisitors.
Download latest version of Foo_Dumb


Regards, deus-ex.

This post has been edited by deus-ex: Oct 18 2004, 16:19


--------------------
Best regards
deus-ex (MODLAND admin: ftp://modland.ziphoid.com)
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kode54
post Sep 13 2004, 10:31
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[quote=deus-ex,Sep 12 2004, 06:25 AM][quote=kode54,Sep 12 2004, 04:29 AM]DOSBox 0.61+ CVS build, dated 2004-Sep-07...[/quote]Not accessasble because of a 'two posting' rule which i find to be dumb. rolleyes.gif (Spamming nonsense to get download privilege?)[/quote]
Actually, it is quite dumb, but maybe he's desperate to see people participate in his forum, perhaps give feedback there on his changes and/or bug reports. Reciprocation or something, I don't know. I managed to make five whole posts the first time I needed a binary, now I help a random friend or two by using my access to share the binaries.

[quote][quote]As for clipping, ReplayGain scan your files before playing.[/quote]I don't need that for foo_mod, but i'll give it a shot and report back.[/quote]Actually, foo_mod can clip as well, but its relative volume level is much lower. Unlike XMPlay/BASS integer output modes, BASS' floating point mode does not perform clipping, so you may actually notice some peaks at or just over 1.0, or sometimes even louder. It all depends.

[quote][quote]The tracker version field also indicates that it was written by ScreamTracker v3.00, so that may not have been a part of the format yet.[/quote]Strshine.s3m was written by Purple Motion, a famous member of the PC demogroup Future Crew which invented Scream Tracker2/3 and the .stm/.s3m-formats.[/quote]
Yes, I know that. As I was suggesting, the format might have been in its infancy, at which point they had not decided that there should be a text EOF character after the song name. DUMB actually required that, but I changed it so it would also accept a null byte there. I also said I might change it so it only allows non-EOF on old version numbers, say < 3.05 or so. I'd have to look around for the oldest published S3M specification to see if it has always required 0x1A after the name, so I can just enforce the check for at least that tracker version.

[quote][quote]...volume ramping... , ...DUMB employs only simple declicking.[/quote]That should definetly be implemented, preferable as a toggle in the options dialog.[/quote]Sure, but it will be more complicated than the current declicker. I'll have to see if it'd be much different from a more advanced implementation of the current declicker. I can also make it optional.

[quote][quote]Didn't know to fix XM panning slide effect translation after correcting the panning direction for IT/S3M/etc in the renderer.[/quote]So it's fixed now?[/quote]
It is, as of 0.9.2.3, which I forgot to upload yesterday. :B

[quote][quote]I could add this, but for now, you can convert MTMs to smaller files with Impulse Tracker.[/quote]I do not recommend doing so. Once i used to convert every .mod/..mtm/.s3m-file to .it-format to save space and believed to have
improvements in how they sound beeing in .it-format. But i learnd that they sounded different compared to the originals so i switched back to them.
*
[/quote]
Yes, there are some differences. Even if I do make a MTM loader, it will basically be translating the effects over to IT effects, and flagging where certain things such as arpeggio and note retrigger should act different. It may be a little more complicated, such as it already is in the XM implementation, which also has its own note and envelope handling in the renderer.

The problem with direct translation is that not every effect behaves the same in each of these formats. A fine example is the (multi)retrigger effect, which is invoked the same in both IT and XM (Qxy/Rxy) but behaves differently. ModPlug Tracker still treats Whisper.xm the same when it is converted to IT, but it sounds different in XMPlay.

[quote][quote]Whisper.xm... I seem to hear a snare drum effect, at which time offset is this effect most noticeable?[/quote]Please check these samples of the file Whisper.xm. The whole file was converted both with foo_mod and foo_dumb to WAV (PCM, fixed-point).
A ~15 sec. sample of each was saved using Audacity and then converted to OGG (Megamix II, quality 7.5) to save bandwidth.
Whisper.xm is a so called 'chip module'. You'll recognize that the chip-drums are replayed differently by the two plugins.
Foo_Mod's output is closer to (same as) the original Fasttracker2.
*
[/quote]
This was a problem with the retrigger effect not accounting for samples/instruments that manage to finish playing within the retrigger interval. It was only resetting the sample position if a sample was currently playing, but not retriggering a note if one was not already playing.

[quote]I came across another .xm file, Sweetsin.xm, which fails to load with foo_dumb.
*
[/quote]
Whee, a bug in my pattern break fix, where pattern repeat would clear the played rows array. It should only have cleared parts of that array when repeating, but it also cleared it when exiting the pattern repeat, so a case like this where the song has a pattern repeat in the first order would loop endlessly.

[quote]Are you going to upload an update of foo_dumb with the allready implemented fixes?
*
[/quote]
Already done.

[quote=bleh,Sep 12 2004, 10:03 AM]I might as well join the party and point out that DUMB doesn't support IT envelope carry.  IIRC, DUMB destroys the channel object with the note information every time a note ends, so it might be annoying to implement in situations where the new note action is a note cut.
*
[/quote]
Already taken care of, except for a minor bug where I was checking the previous note's instrument on a new note, even when the current module was not using IT instrument mode.

[quote]Also, DUMB doesn't wrap really long XM portamentos around, but then I haven't found anything other than BASS and FT2 that does and I don't know any of the specifics of how it's supposed to be done.
*
[/quote]
I will investigate this if you provide me with an example file. (Or, I can make one myself.)

Uploaded v0.9.2.4.
  • Quick bugfix for the additions I made for envelope carry that would cause other module formats to crash.
  • Fixed retriggering on really short notes and samples, restricted to XM format since Impulse Tracker doesn't seem to behave this way. (Also consistent with BASS/XMPlay behavior.)
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deus-ex
post Sep 13 2004, 13:34
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QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 13 2004, 10:31 AM)
...now I help a random friend or two by using my access to share the binaries.
Would you mind to share your access with me? happy.gif

In the Dosbox forums you pointed me to someone requested permission to offer an alternate download access for the current DosboxCVS compile
(for an LittleBigAdventure2 game fansite) which he was granted. But now the link points to the official release again only. In conclusion it seems to
be allowed to offer them for downloading on alternate sites.

QUOTE
Actually, foo_mod can clip as well, but its relative volume level is much lower. Unlike XMPlay/BASS integer output modes, BASS' floating point mode does not perform clipping, so you may actually notice some peaks at or just over 1.0, or sometimes even louder. It all depends.
I played around with replaygain. Basically its an automated volumecontroll, right? It does'nt get any better with than without. It turns out that
the files that i named to 'clipp' might be fixed with volumeramping. Thats hopefully left to be seen with future releases of foo_dumb.

QUOTE
I'd have to look around for the oldest published S3M specification to see if it has always required 0x1A after the name, so I can just enforce the check for at least that tracker version.
I only came across two releases of ST3, v3.01beta and v3.21. Though there must have exist a v3.2 release according to the v3.21 documentation.


Going to download v0.9.2.4 now.

Regards, deus-ex.


--------------------
Best regards
deus-ex (MODLAND admin: ftp://modland.ziphoid.com)
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Posts in this topic
- deus-ex   foo_dumb   Sep 9 2004, 22:54
- - kode54   Chris35b.it doesn't sound much different from ...   Sep 9 2004, 23:46
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 9 2004, 11:46 PM)Chris35b...   Sep 10 2004, 00:32
- - lll9p_1   Where can i download it?   Sep 10 2004, 05:48
|- - Silverbolt   QUOTE (lll9p_1 @ Sep 9 2004, 08:48 PM)Where c...   Sep 10 2004, 06:31
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.1.Fixed infinite running / load-ti...   Sep 10 2004, 10:23
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 10 2004, 10:23 AM)Uploade...   Sep 10 2004, 11:56
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.2.Fixed panning slide/shift effect...   Sep 10 2004, 14:39
- - deus-ex   Checked updated foo_dumb v0.9.2.2. Cregaia.it issu...   Sep 10 2004, 21:53
|- - kode54   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Sep 10 2004, 01:53 PM)C...   Sep 11 2004, 10:12
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 11 2004, 10:12 AM)...DUMB...   Sep 11 2004, 21:59
|- - kode54   DOSBox 0.61+ CVS build, dated 2004-Sep-07, from h...   Sep 12 2004, 04:29
- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 12 2004, 04:29 AM)DOSBox ...   Sep 12 2004, 14:25
- - bleh   I might as well join the party and point out that ...   Sep 12 2004, 18:03
- - kode54   Not accessasble because of a 'two posting...   Sep 13 2004, 10:31
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 13 2004, 10:31 AM)...now ...   Sep 13 2004, 13:34
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Sep 13 2004, 01:34 PM)Q...   Sep 14 2004, 11:28
|- - kode54   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Sep 14 2004, 03:28 AM)-...   Sep 15 2004, 06:19
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 15 2004, 06:19 AM)I can t...   Sep 15 2004, 13:35
|- - kode54   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Sep 15 2004, 05:35 AM)Q...   Sep 15 2004, 18:42
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 15 2004, 06:42 PM)Which, ...   Sep 15 2004, 20:05
- - bleh   Okay, envelope carry is cool now in the quick exam...   Sep 13 2004, 13:48
|- - kode54   QUOTE (bleh @ Sep 13 2004, 05:48 AM)Okay, env...   Sep 13 2004, 17:49
- - deus-ex   Version 0.9.2.4 crashed on some .it-files here too...   Sep 13 2004, 20:24
- - bleh   1. Cool, the crash is fixed on my system as well....   Sep 13 2004, 21:17
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (bleh @ Sep 13 2004, 09:17 PM)2.  The I...   Sep 13 2004, 23:00
- - bleh   Whoa, I'm sorry, I've been listening with ...   Sep 13 2004, 23:39
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.6.Corrected sample offset for PTM ...   Sep 14 2004, 03:00
- - holox   You can get Dosbox cvs compiles from CVS Compile w...   Sep 14 2004, 13:02
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (holox @ Sep 14 2004, 01:02 PM)You can ...   Sep 14 2004, 13:36
- - deus-ex   Jos-Dr4k.xm fails to load both with foo_dumb and f...   Sep 15 2004, 17:51
- - kode54   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Sep 15 2004, 12:05 PM)Q...   Sep 16 2004, 09:27
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 16 2004, 09:27 AM)I'v...   Sep 16 2004, 13:55
|- - kode54   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Sep 16 2004, 05:55 AM)Q...   Sep 16 2004, 16:36
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 16 2004, 04:36 PM)Which q...   Sep 16 2004, 19:31
|- - kode54   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Sep 16 2004, 11:31 AM)1...   Sep 17 2004, 10:15
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 17 2004, 10:15 AM)I was p...   Sep 17 2004, 12:27
- - bleh   QUOTE HAHA, the OKT format is just another MOD-lik...   Sep 17 2004, 13:42
|- - kode54   QUOTE (bleh @ Sep 17 2004, 05:42 AM)QUOTE HAH...   Sep 17 2004, 17:16
- - ep0ch   I don't suppose it will be possible to get the...   Sep 17 2004, 14:36
- - GenjuroXL   I think supporting DW would mean emulating an m68k...   Sep 17 2004, 16:55
- - deus-ex   Open Cubic Player 2.60pre6 sources also contain co...   Sep 17 2004, 17:33
- - kode54   QUOTE (ep0ch @ Sep 17 2004, 06:36 AM)I don...   Sep 17 2004, 17:34
- - jsheridan   Invalid behaviour with this   Sep 17 2004, 18:52
- - deus-ex   Rezipped DISCVRY.MOD for everyone who can't ac...   Sep 17 2004, 21:08
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.9.Implemented Xxx panning effect b...   Sep 18 2004, 02:11
- - jsheridan   Invalid playback starting from 1:01 (only one stri...   Sep 18 2004, 11:46
- - deus-ex   Trauma.okt wont load with v0.9.2.9. It's the o...   Sep 18 2004, 17:21
- - bleh   That's other, "other," OKT format I ...   Sep 18 2004, 18:43
- - deus-ex   Trauma.okt can be played with Winamp In_Mod and Op...   Sep 18 2004, 20:07
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.10.S3M reader now disposes of effe...   Sep 19 2004, 19:31
|- - jsheridan   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 19 2004, 10:31 AM)Uploade...   Sep 19 2004, 21:34
- - deus-ex   Acknowleged, Algory.ptm playback is better than wh...   Sep 20 2004, 22:29
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.10.1.Initializes channel sample nu...   Sep 21 2004, 04:06
- - deus-ex   Warswa.xm replay fixed, thank you. Found some prob...   Sep 21 2004, 17:56
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.11.Implemented PSM format reader. ...   Sep 22 2004, 02:46
- - deus-ex   All .mod-format problems fixed. The PSM format us...   Sep 22 2004, 16:43
- - T&L   Hi, there's a problem playing tense.s3m (music...   Sep 22 2004, 21:20
|- - foosion   QUOTE (T&L @ Sep 22 2004, 10:20 PM)It see...   Sep 22 2004, 21:57
|- - kode54   QUOTE (T&L @ Sep 22 2004, 01:20 PM)Hi, th...   Sep 22 2004, 23:49
|- - T&L   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 23 2004, 01:49 AM)If you ...   Sep 23 2004, 22:07
- - deus-ex   Output of PSM format sounds excellent, better than...   Sep 25 2004, 15:18
- - kode54   Just what I always wanted, a PSM with multiple SON...   Sep 26 2004, 04:00
- - deus-ex   Game "Silverball", 01-TITLE.S3M, a conve...   Sep 26 2004, 12:54
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.12.Extended PSM reader to support ...   Sep 27 2004, 15:20
- - deus-ex   All previously reported problems fixed. Subsong fe...   Sep 28 2004, 15:43
- - kode54   Subsong index is conveniently a core feature, so y...   Sep 29 2004, 08:21
- - T&L   Can't download the plugin from kode54's si...   Sep 29 2004, 17:15
- - deus-ex   Kode54's plugin site is temporarily unavailabl...   Sep 29 2004, 19:50
- - deus-ex   Thanks for hinting the %_subsong% variable. That...   Sep 30 2004, 13:23
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.12.2.Removed checkpoint list / len...   Sep 30 2004, 16:04
- - deus-ex   This Examples demonstrate several problems i found...   Oct 1 2004, 12:00
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.13.Changed subsong scanner to chec...   Oct 1 2004, 18:07
- - deus-ex   Here goes next round for v0.9.2.13: Providing down...   Oct 2 2004, 15:13
|- - kode54   Nonexisting Subsong:ninja philosophy.it - Silent p...   Oct 2 2004, 18:36
- - deus-ex   Allright, all v0.9.2.13 probs sorted. Regarding ...   Oct 2 2004, 19:57
|- - kode54   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Oct 2 2004, 11:57 AM)Al...   Oct 2 2004, 23:33
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Oct 2 2004, 11:33 PM)I've...   Oct 3 2004, 12:27
- - nIRV   could you indicate a place where I could download ...   Oct 3 2004, 13:10
|- - Case   QUOTE (nIRV @ Oct 3 2004, 03:10 PM)could you ...   Oct 3 2004, 13:15
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.3.Old PSM format support.MTM support...   Oct 4 2004, 07:32
- - deus-ex   Woah, you're updating faster than i can follow...   Oct 4 2004, 14:14
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.3.2.Removed part of my last NNA chan...   Oct 4 2004, 14:31
- - deus-ex   What the f...? You killed Lucky Luke. Pushed some...   Oct 4 2004, 14:56
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.3.3.Fixed glissando control, it was ...   Oct 4 2004, 16:14
- - deus-ex   Ok, .mtm crashes sorted. All the .mtm's of my ...   Oct 4 2004, 16:43
|- - kode54   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Oct 4 2004, 08:43 AM)Ad...   Oct 4 2004, 17:08
- - deus-ex   I recommend to use In_Adlib.dll along with the Win...   Oct 5 2004, 15:15
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Oct 5 2004, 03:15 PM)Th...   Oct 7 2004, 19:50
- - bigboo   HI I just tested your new mod plug-in and it seem...   Oct 5 2004, 22:30
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.3.4.Fixed pitch pan separation for n...   Oct 6 2004, 03:44
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Oct 6 2004, 03:44 AM)QUOTE DS...   Oct 6 2004, 16:40
- - bigboo   Thanks for all those detailled infos and the quick...   Oct 6 2004, 13:22
- - kode54   My friend just checked 16th intro.mod, the first ...   Oct 6 2004, 15:00
|- - bigboo   QUOTE (kode54 @ Oct 6 2004, 04:00 PM)My frien...   Oct 6 2004, 15:19
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.3.6.Fixed volume swing, which is rel...   Oct 7 2004, 00:04
- - deus-ex   No need to investigate further, with v0.9.3.6 all ...   Oct 7 2004, 14:20
- - deus-ex   Hello (fading echo: hello... hello... hello...), a...   Oct 14 2004, 14:30
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.4.Implemented mostly dodgy volume ra...   Oct 14 2004, 23:13
- - deus-ex   First listening test with volume ramping enabled s...   Oct 15 2004, 16:42
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