IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Nordost Valhalla AC Power Cables, I've been reading a lot about them...
Funkstar De Luxe
post Aug 3 2004, 18:56
Post #1





Group: Members
Posts: 582
Joined: 4-January 03
From: Scotland
Member No.: 4415



It seems these AC cables are being praised in just about every HI-Fi magazine I pick up. Aparently they provide better timing (no, I don't know what that meant either), better dynamics and deeper bass. At $2500 a piece they better had.

I'll get to the point now. I don't understand why the cable to the power supply in the component (amp, CD player etc) would have any effect on the sound. The electricity runs though all different kinds of crap cables to get to your house and somehow placing 2 meters of very expensive cable at the end of that chain make a different? I don't think so. Sure, good quality cable to hook everything up is vital - after all it's your actual audio that's runiing though them. But an audiophile mains lead?

Can some one please tell me a logical/scientific explanation of how this works? Is there one? Anyone actually heard the difference a good power cord caqn make to their system? It seems like a load of shit to me but there is just too many reviews and publicity for it to be completely false.

Tony


--------------------
http://www.animarecordings.com/
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
Xenno
post Aug 4 2004, 16:12
Post #2





Group: Members
Posts: 393
Joined: 23-July 02
From: Blue Grass, IA
Member No.: 2760



Yeah...whatever. You'll either hear it...or you won't. I don't care what you turn yours up to...or what anyone else turns theirs up to...they'll either hear it...or they won't. Read the thread title again so that we're on the same page, because in my previous post I state the conditions where these cables may be useful. It would be highly unlikely that the dimunitive effect of a properly run standard power cord would push humm (and other forms of interference) into the audible range (even when compounded by xxx number of cords). Theoretical?..forget about it...I speak from practical real world experience.

xen-uno

This post has been edited by Xenno: Aug 4 2004, 16:14


--------------------
No one can be told what Ogg Vorbis is...you have to hear it for yourself
- Morpheus
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
useless_engineer
post Aug 4 2004, 17:26
Post #3





Group: Members
Posts: 36
Joined: 15-June 04
Member No.: 14696



Well...if you do get hum, buy a $4 length of steel conduit and run the power or signal wires through it. Shielding problem solved and you save $2496. If you still get hum, get some cheap 16 gauge and run a ground to each of your audio components. There are easier ways to deal with these types of problems than Nordost would have you believe.

And yes, the effect of a 2m power cable is insignificant compared to the noise picked up in the 200km of cables between you and the power station, or noise added from every transformer between here and there. Scientific proof? The length of that cord in the above example represents .0005% of the total length of the circuit, which rounds neatly down to 0. No need to get any more technical than that.

Anyone who still wonders why people buy these things? It's easier to understand when you consider that it's the same reason you buy diamonds, good luck charms, ionic bracelets, magnetic bracelets, lawn gnomes...and a host of other junk. People can be easily fooled when it comes to the relative value of consumer goods if manipulated correctly.

This post has been edited by useless_engineer: Aug 4 2004, 17:37
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
jaustin
post Aug 4 2004, 20:40
Post #4





Group: Members
Posts: 39
Joined: 26-July 04
Member No.: 15785



QUOTE (useless_engineer @ Aug 4 2004, 11:26 AM)
And yes, the effect of a 2m power cable is insignificant compared to the noise picked up in the 200km of cables between you and the power station, or noise added from every transformer between here and there.

Nope. It varies from model to model, but transformers generally have a fairly narrow bandwidth. They filter out most radio frequency (and above) noise. Lucky for us. So the step-down transformer at your house is likely to filter much, but not all, noise from the outside world. Furthermore, if the cord filters noise... (of course there are other ways of doing that...and as I've said, I'd never recommend a $2500 power cord to anyone).
QUOTE
Scientific proof?  The length of that cord in the above example represents .0005% of the total length of the circuit, which rounds neatly down to 0.  No need to get any more technical than that.
*


Power delivery systems (in the U.S.) are designed to deliver 120 V A/C TO THE RECEPTACLE at the full rated power. Typical house wiring is 12 or 14 gauge. The typical power cord is 18 gauge. Currents drawn by an amplifier during the re-charging of the power supply can reach values that are 10-15 times larger than the RMS value. That can mean significant voltage drops in those 18 gauge power cords, perhaps 5 Volts, OVER THE LENGTH OF THE POWER CORD. Yes, there will be voltage drops in the household wiring, too. But they will be smaller if the wiring is up to code.

And yes, you can solve this problem (or greatly mitigate it) by buying a shielded 14 guage power cord from Belden, that will cost somehwere around ten bucks. Like I said, I'm not advocating $2500 power cords. What I'm trying to do is to convince folks not to rely on old saws based on the clumsy application of science insufficiently understood. I'm all for testing, but keep an open mind. There's plenty of snake oil in hi-end audio, but it's a lot harder than you seem to think to tell the good guys from the bad guys.

I'll close by not making any claims about the positive effects I might (or might not) have heard when I switched out my Belden 14 gauge shielded for a budget hi-end power cord (which cost about 5% what the cord being discussed here costs). I won't make any claims because to do so would violate TOS8.

Cheers,
Jim
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- Funkstar De Luxe   Nordost Valhalla AC Power Cables   Aug 3 2004, 18:56
- - boojum   Can you spell B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T? FWIW, many amps h...   Aug 3 2004, 19:11
- - WmAx   QUOTE (Funkstar De Luxe @ Aug 3 2004, 12:56 P...   Aug 3 2004, 19:20
- - jaustin   QUOTE (Funkstar De Luxe @ Aug 3 2004, 12:56 P...   Aug 3 2004, 19:22
|- - WmAx   QUOTE Those are (some of) the arguments, and I fin...   Aug 3 2004, 19:41
|- - jaustin   QUOTE (WmAx @ Aug 3 2004, 01:41 PM)This all c...   Aug 3 2004, 19:51
|- - WmAx   QUOTE Finding the answers to some of these questio...   Aug 3 2004, 20:00
|- - Pio2001   QUOTE (WmAx @ Aug 3 2004, 08:00 PM)WIth issue...   Aug 3 2004, 21:06
|- - jaustin   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Aug 3 2004, 03:06 PM)I recal...   Aug 3 2004, 21:10
|- - Pio2001   QUOTE (jaustin @ Aug 3 2004, 09:17 PM)I belie...   Aug 3 2004, 22:55
|- - jaustin   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Aug 3 2004, 04:55 PM)followi...   Aug 4 2004, 02:59
|- - jaustin   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Aug 3 2004, 04:55 PM)If it i...   Aug 4 2004, 03:16
|- - Pio2001   QUOTE (jaustin @ Aug 4 2004, 03:16 AM)Your de...   Aug 4 2004, 11:24
|- - jaustin   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Aug 4 2004, 05:24 AM)I disag...   Aug 4 2004, 12:25
- - Xenno   Every circuit inside an amp runs on DC. If the pow...   Aug 3 2004, 20:56
|- - jaustin   QUOTE (Xenno @ Aug 3 2004, 02:56 PM)If the po...   Aug 3 2004, 21:17
- - Xenno   Well...either you'll get an audible 50-60 Hz h...   Aug 3 2004, 22:47
|- - jaustin   QUOTE (Xenno @ Aug 3 2004, 04:47 PM)Well...ei...   Aug 4 2004, 03:19
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Xenno @ Aug 3 2004, 09:47 PM)Well...ei...   Aug 4 2004, 12:51
- - DigitalMan   My frustration with audio cables is that we rarely...   Aug 4 2004, 00:23
- - Xenno   Yeah...whatever. You'll either hear it...or yo...   Aug 4 2004, 16:12
|- - useless_engineer   Well...if you do get hum, buy a $4 length of ...   Aug 4 2004, 17:26
||- - useless_engineer   The best part about luxury audio cables is where t...   Aug 4 2004, 18:14
|||- - jaustin   QUOTE (useless_engineer @ Aug 4 2004, 12:14 P...   Aug 4 2004, 20:41
||- - jaustin   QUOTE (useless_engineer @ Aug 4 2004, 11:26 A...   Aug 4 2004, 20:40
||- - useless_engineer   QUOTE Power delivery systems (in the U.S.) are des...   Aug 4 2004, 21:04
|||- - jaustin   QUOTE (useless_engineer @ Aug 4 2004, 03:04 P...   Aug 4 2004, 21:50
|||- - useless_engineer   QUOTE but I wonder if a ferrite-impregnated power ...   Aug 5 2004, 05:45
|||- - jamesattufts   Would the whole John Dunlavy debunking of expensiv...   Aug 5 2004, 08:24
|||- - jaustin   QUOTE (useless_engineer @ Aug 4 2004, 11:45 P...   Aug 5 2004, 13:18
|||- - useless_engineer   QUOTE What it means (and I admit it might not have...   Aug 5 2004, 16:51
|||- - cabbagerat   QUOTE (jaustin @ Aug 5 2004, 04:18 AM)QUOTE (...   Aug 5 2004, 17:51
||- - Pio2001   QUOTE (jaustin @ Aug 4 2004, 08:41 PM)QUOTE (...   Aug 5 2004, 00:32
||- - jaustin   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Aug 4 2004, 06:32 PM)If you ...   Aug 5 2004, 02:09
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Xenno @ Aug 4 2004, 03:12 PM)Yeah...wh...   Aug 5 2004, 09:33
- - CSMR   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Aug 3 2004, 12:06 PM)I recal...   Aug 4 2004, 17:21
- - ara-fat32   Hi-fi Magazine Rules, why they can find peoples pa...   Aug 5 2004, 05:10
- - rickshaw   There is a rule of thumb in Hi-End Audio that you ...   Aug 5 2004, 09:46
|- - Pio2001   QUOTE (rickshaw @ Aug 5 2004, 09:46 AM)Just h...   Aug 5 2004, 12:02
- - rickshaw   Pio2001, As mentioned the issue at hand and the i...   Aug 5 2004, 12:45
- - .halverhahn   QUOTE (Funkstar De Luxe @ Aug 3 2004, 07:56 P...   Aug 5 2004, 13:49
- - Gecko   I have a related question. What kind of power cabl...   Aug 5 2004, 15:39
- - DigitalMan   QUOTE (rickshaw @ Aug 5 2004, 03:45 AM)Pio200...   Aug 5 2004, 16:25
- - dreamliner77   I bet we could sell some of these $2500 cable...   Aug 5 2004, 19:17
- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (dreamliner77 @ Aug 5 2004, 06:17 PM)I ...   Aug 9 2004, 12:41


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 22nd December 2014 - 15:58