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New iPods!
Cygnus X1
post Jul 20 2004, 20:45
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QUOTE (AtaqueEG @ Jul 20 2004, 02:16 PM)
Gapless is much more than just playing song with no silence between them (like you can do with a crossfader).

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iTunes can't even do that....even when using Apple Lossless or AIFF files, setting the crossfader to zero still results in a pop and a brief pause. It's annoying enough that I've ripped all my Pink Floyd, classical, and The Who albums as single tracks, rather than individual ones.

CD's are the only things that play back gaplessly in iTunes, but why would I play a CD in iTunes to begin with? blink.gif Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of having a HDD-based software jukebox?
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AtaqueEG
post Jul 20 2004, 20:48
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QUOTE (audioflex @ Jul 20 2004, 01:37 PM)
See the problem is, when im walking with it and playing some music, it will suddenly stop playing for no reason, and when i take it out of my pocket, it will show the battery indicator thing spent all the way, even if ive only used it for like 15-30 mins. If i leave it alone for 2-3 minutes "magically" the battery comes back, anyway, i dont think this is acceptable performance for a $400 mp3 player (i dont know if you would), and want to see if this problem has been eliminated on the 4g ipod, also, i have all my music backed up (who wouldn't?) smile.gif
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Your device obviously has a bad battery. This is unacceptable, indeed, but it is normal. The same thing could have happened to a Mini. If you are still under warranty, you should ask for a device (or battery) replacement.


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audioflex
post Jul 20 2004, 20:51
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QUOTE (AtaqueEG @ Jul 20 2004, 12:48 PM)
If you are still under warranty, you should ask for a device (or battery) replacement.
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which is exactly what i plan to do smile.gif
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AtaqueEG
post Jul 20 2004, 20:51
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QUOTE
iTunes can't even do that....even when using Apple Lossless or AIFF files, setting the crossfader to zero still results in a pop and a brief pause. It's annoying enough that I've ripped all my Pink Floyd, classical, and The Who albums as single tracks, rather than individual ones.

CD's are the only things that play back gaplessly in iTunes, but why would I play a CD in iTunes to begin with?  blink.gif Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of having a HDD-based software jukebox?



This is the one thing that has changed my mind about buying an iPod.
You know, I had learned to "deal" with the lack of gapless playback on portables, but having read that Rio Karma supports LAME-tag-based gapless playback, I am definitely going that way.


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QuantumKnot
post Jul 21 2004, 00:49
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It's a shame that we have this 'sliding window' way of selling products. They never get any cheaper but newer products just slide down and replace the older ones, often at higher prices. I was considering buying the 15 GB 3G iPod a few weeks ago but waited until they announced the new ones. Then I considered buying the iRiver H120, only to find out that it's been discontinued, replaced by the more expensive H140. And now the lowest 4G iPod at 20 GB has turned out more expensive than the one it replaced.

I guess the longer you wait, the more features you get, rather than prices falling.
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AtaqueEG
post Jul 21 2004, 04:45
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It is official now

I must say it still looks interesting, but now I am waiting for the Karma 2 (or the original Karma to experience a price drop)


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jkonami
post Jul 21 2004, 07:04
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How's the amp and sound output of the 4G so far?

Also, I heard there was a new game (read on slashdot, I think)- anyone know what that is? smile.gif
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ChangFest
post Jul 21 2004, 07:31
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QUOTE (jkonami @ Jul 20 2004, 10:04 PM)
How's the amp and sound output of the 4G so far?

Also, I heard there was a new game (read on slashdot, I think)- anyone know what that is? smile.gif
*


If games were a selling point for a DAP I'd buy a PDA. DAPs should play music and play it well. I think Apple should worry about supporting proper audio playback support rather than games.
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jkonami
post Jul 21 2004, 07:43
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QUOTE (ChangFest @ Jul 21 2004, 01:31 AM)
QUOTE (jkonami @ Jul 20 2004, 10:04 PM)
How's the amp and sound output of the 4G so far?

Also, I heard there was a new game (read on slashdot, I think)- anyone know what that is? smile.gif
*


If games were a selling point for a DAP I'd buy a PDA. DAPs should play music and play it well. I think Apple should worry about supporting proper audio playback support rather than games.
*



Agreed, but I was curious none the less. The major question in my posting (about the output) was posed first smile.gif
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markgr
post Jul 21 2004, 14:37
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QUOTE (AtaqueEG @ Jul 20 2004, 02:51 PM)
This is the one thing that has changed my mind about buying an iPod.
You know, I had learned to "deal" with the lack of gapless playback on portables, but having read that Rio Karma supports LAME-tag-based gapless playback, I am definitely going that way.
*


Well, as mentioned above, why not just rip a 'suite' of tracks into a single track using iTunes. Logically, it makes sense. Having several movements contained in a piece of classical music is theoretically still one piece of music. If they are assigned seperate track numbers, and shuffle is set on your CD player, they don't, ofcourse, play consecutively. I just don't think it is that big a deal, I think it is a bit 'nit-picky' smile.gif
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markgr
post Jul 21 2004, 14:49
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QUOTE (ChangFest @ Jul 21 2004, 01:31 AM)
If games were a selling point for a DAP I'd buy a PDA.  DAPs should play music and play it well.  I think Apple should worry about supporting proper audio playback support rather than games.
*


I am curious as to your definition of 'proper audio playback'? I sum it up this way . . . how many people out there can offord $1,500 ea Mission/Castle speakers, state of the art pre-amps, etc . . . the majority of the folks using iPods are using them as portable players, on the go, not as a plug in to a home stereo unit. I, on the other hand, AM planning on using it on my home system to replace my entire CD collection.

With that in mind, I have researched it a lot, and have found that the iPod is an extremely easy, quality, decent sounding device that, coupled w/iTunes, makes for a very easy, efficient, quality method of musical reproduction. I am planning on encoding all of my content at AAC 192 Mbps and feel that although not completely transparent by many audiofile standards, this will suffice for my Sony 250w surround receiver/Bose 301 Bookshelf home stereo configuration. I even plan to upgrade possibly to a pair of B&W D603's, replacing the Bose units, and I am not the least bit concerned of transparency issues at the above mentioned encoding rate. Should I be?
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ShowsOn
post Jul 21 2004, 17:35
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I'm in the process of going to FLAC, thus making a mass 160Kbps iTunes AAC encode easy in the future. I wish I could go higher, but I want to fit all of my CDs onto a 40 GB iPod... Hopefully Apple releases a true VBR AAC codec in the next few months, so that I am encoding the most efficient way.

This post has been edited by ShowsOn: Jul 21 2004, 17:36


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ChangFest
post Jul 21 2004, 18:36
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QUOTE (markgr @ Jul 21 2004, 05:49 AM)
I am curious as to your definition of 'proper audio playback'? I sum it up this way . . . how many people out there can offord $1,500 ea Mission/Castle speakers, state of the art pre-amps, etc . . . the majority of the folks using iPods are using them as portable players, on the go, not as a plug in to a home stereo unit. I, on the other hand, AM planning on using it on my home system to replace my entire CD collection.

With that in mind, I have researched it a lot, and have found that the iPod is an extremely easy, quality, decent sounding device that, coupled w/iTunes, makes for a very easy, efficient, quality method of musical reproduction. I am planning on encoding all of my content at AAC 192 Mbps and feel that although not completely transparent by many audiofile standards, this will suffice for my Sony 250w surround receiver/Bose 301 Bookshelf home stereo configuration. I even plan to upgrade possibly to a pair of  B&W D603's, replacing the Bose units, and I am not the least bit concerned of transparency issues at the above mentioned encoding rate. Should I be?
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A $25 portable CD player can play an album correctly, while a $400 Ipod cannot. I'm talking about gapless playback.
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Chun-Yu
post Jul 21 2004, 21:21
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QUOTE (markgr @ Jul 21 2004, 08:37 AM)
Well, as mentioned above, why not just rip a 'suite' of tracks into a single track using iTunes. Logically, it makes sense. Having several movements contained in a piece of classical music is theoretically still one piece of music. If they are assigned seperate track numbers, and shuffle is set on your CD player, they don't, ofcourse, play consecutively. I just don't think it is that big a deal, I think it is a bit 'nit-picky' smile.gif
*


This kind of logic may work for classical music, but what about, say, a trance CD that's composed of a bunch of different songs by different artists that are mixed together continuously? Also, the slightest gap in this sort of album is very annoying.
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guruboolez
post Jul 21 2004, 21:37
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QUOTE (Chun-Yu @ Jul 21 2004, 09:21 PM)
This kind of logic may work for classical music (...)

Not really. Direct access to different tracks is necessary. Even "purist" are shouting when a CD comes without any track (it's very rare, and that's why all editors are using tracks, sometimes more than 100 for one lyrical piece).

I can't understand why manufacters are so negligent about gapless playback. All audio devices before MP3 players were able to do that: vynil, tape, CD, and even MD! Since the beginning of the 80', consumer has the possibility to switch with precision and very quickly from one point to another (CD, MD). Mono-file ripping is just a 25 year regression. Even for classical music listeners (and maybe especially for them).
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Fuchal
post Jul 21 2004, 21:49
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QUOTE (guruboolez @ Jul 21 2004, 03:37 PM)
QUOTE (Chun-Yu @ Jul 21 2004, 09:21 PM)
This kind of logic may work for classical music (...)

Not really. Direct access to different tracks is necessary. Even "purist" are shouting when a CD comes without any track (it's very rare, and that's why all editors are using tracks, sometimes more than 100 for one lyrical piece).

I can't understand why manufacters are so negligent about gapless playback. All audio devices before MP3 players were able to do that: vynil, tape, CD, and even MD! Since the beginning of the 80', consumer has the possibility to switch with precision and very quickly from one point to another (CD, MD). Mono-file ripping is just a 25 year regression. Even for classical music listeners (and maybe especially for them).
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Probably because 99% of people who buy mp3 players don't care about gapless playback. smile.gif
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guruboolez
post Jul 21 2004, 22:06
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QUOTE (Fuchal @ Jul 21 2004, 09:49 PM)
Probably because 99% of people who buy mp3 players don't care about gapless playback. smile.gif
*

I guess that's the same with portable MD players... nevertheless Sony thought and made gapless and real audio players.
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loophole
post Jul 21 2004, 22:44
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QUOTE (ChangFest @ Jul 20 2004, 10:31 PM)
QUOTE (jkonami @ Jul 20 2004, 10:04 PM)
How's the amp and sound output of the 4G so far?

Also, I heard there was a new game (read on slashdot, I think)- anyone know what that is? smile.gif
*


If games were a selling point for a DAP I'd buy a PDA. DAPs should play music and play it well. I think Apple should worry about supporting proper audio playback support rather than games.
*



Apple are currently selling iPods at a rate faster than they can make them. Obviously "proper audio playback" isn't a priority at the moment because 95% of the population don't care that there's a 1 second pause between tracks. And if it bothers them that much they can just encode the whole CD thing as a single track

I'm sure it would be possible to add, as would vorbis/flac/mpc/wma support, but why bother - the only thing that may increase is the "days to ship" time at the Apple Store. The amount of people who would buy an iPod over another device because of these features is probably not enough to offset the costs of development and support anyway.
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Hias
post Jul 21 2004, 23:12
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Does anyone have further information an the "speed adjustment" feature, I've heard of?
This seems to be interesting and how good it really is - because it's usually a trade-off between complexity and quality. Does it change the pitch?
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phong
post Jul 22 2004, 04:43
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QUOTE (loophole @ Jul 21 2004, 09:44 PM)
The amount of people who would buy an iPod over another device because of these features is probably not enough to offset the costs of development and support anyway.

Fortunately, there's enough of us who do care that a company who makes a better alternative at a lower price can still make money.

* hugs Karma *


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audioflex
post Jul 22 2004, 05:39
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I think the concept of mp3 players (in many people's minds) may be been so they can make compilations of their favourite music, which for there would be no theoretical use for gapless playback (unless you're making trance mp3 cd's where gapless is usually a must) wink.gif

This post has been edited by audioflex: Jul 22 2004, 05:47
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Fuchal
post Jul 22 2004, 05:56
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QUOTE (guruboolez @ Jul 21 2004, 04:06 PM)
QUOTE (Fuchal @ Jul 21 2004, 09:49 PM)
Probably because 99% of people who buy mp3 players don't care about gapless playback. smile.gif
*

I guess that's the same with portable MD players... nevertheless Sony thought and made gapless and real audio players.
*



Nothing wrong with that, people can buy MD players then. Everyone who wants an iPod will buy an iPod.
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ChangFest
post Jul 22 2004, 22:06
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QUOTE (guruboolez @ Jul 21 2004, 12:37 PM)
I can't understand why manufacters are so negligent about gapless playback. All audio devices before MP3 players were able to do that: vynil, tape, CD, and even MD! Since the beginning of the 80', consumer has the possibility to switch with precision and very quickly from one point to another (CD, MD). Mono-file ripping is just a 25 year regression. Even for classical music listeners (and maybe especially for them).
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Well said....well said.
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negritot
post Jul 22 2004, 22:23
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QUOTE (Hias @ Jul 21 2004, 02:12 PM)
Does anyone have further information an the "speed adjustment" feature, I've heard of?
This seems to be interesting and how good it really is - because it's usually a trade-off between complexity and quality. Does it change the pitch?
*

Supposedly it doesn't change the pitch, but it only works for audio books.
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rtimmel
post Jul 22 2004, 22:53
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But you can change the extension from .m4a to .m4b (at least with the older generations) and "create" an audiobook.
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