IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
distinguish a pressed cd rip from a burnt cd one
NetUnix
post Jul 4 2004, 19:05
Post #1





Group: Members
Posts: 2
Joined: 6-December 03
Member No.: 10235



is it possible to distinguish between a rip made from an original pressed CD and one from a burnt CD?

how?

i would like to know this because i would like to know what i download
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
wizkid
post Jul 4 2004, 19:09
Post #2





Group: Members
Posts: 49
Joined: 6-February 03
From: Oslo
Member No.: 4880



No. As long as it is a plain copy, and nothing in layout or audio quality is changed.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
saratoga
post Jul 4 2004, 20:18
Post #3





Group: Members
Posts: 4925
Joined: 2-September 02
Member No.: 3264



QUOTE (NetUnix @ Jul 4 2004, 10:05 AM)
is it possible to distinguish between a rip made from an original pressed CD and one from a burnt CD?

how?

i would like to know this because i would like to know what i download

A copy of a pressed CD is going to be bit for bit identical to the orginal (well assuming the reader and burner are working properly), so theres no way to tell.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Simba7
post Jul 6 2004, 08:08
Post #4





Group: Members
Posts: 39
Joined: 7-July 02
From: Miles City, MT, USA
Member No.: 2506



Depends on the recording software.. If it's burnt with CloneCD, it's usually a bit-for-bit exact copy of the original. It even keeps the HDCD stuff.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
DAvenger
post Jul 6 2004, 08:13
Post #5





Group: Members
Posts: 252
Joined: 15-May 03
From: Bratislava, SK
Member No.: 6640



This tool should help you determine whether the files were transcoded : http://www.true-audio.com/ftp/auCDtect-0.7-beta.zip


--------------------
Reklama na internete - http://www.consultone.sk
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Pio2001
post Jul 6 2004, 11:42
Post #6


Moderator


Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 3936
Joined: 29-September 01
Member No.: 73



QUOTE (Simba7 @ Jul 6 2004, 08:08 AM)
Depends on the recording software.. If it's burnt with CloneCD, it's usually a bit-for-bit exact copy of the original. It even keeps the HDCD stuff.

CloneCD has many tricks for copying data CDs, but it can't always make a bit-for-bit copy, especially with such protections as SafeDisc (it patches weak sectors instead), or some newer ones.
For audio, CloneCD is a very basic and uninteresting ripper. The copies are not bit-for-bit identical, because it doesn't correct offsets, unlike Plextools or EAC.
And any audio ripper can keep the HDCD stuff.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Deichgraf
post Jul 6 2004, 11:48
Post #7





Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 6-July 04
Member No.: 15093



QUOTE (DAvenger @ Jul 5 2004, 11:13 PM)
This tool should help you determine whether the files were transcoded : http://www.true-audio.com/ftp/auCDtect-0.7-beta.zip

This app might help you determine whether his files are WAVs which were made from MP3s - but if I understood correctly, it shouldn't solve his problem.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Simba7
post Jul 25 2004, 22:59
Post #8





Group: Members
Posts: 39
Joined: 7-July 02
From: Miles City, MT, USA
Member No.: 2506



QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Jul 6 2004, 04:42 AM)
CloneCD has many tricks for copying data CDs, but it can't always make a bit-for-bit copy, especially with such protections as SafeDisc (it patches weak sectors instead), or some newer ones.
For audio, CloneCD is a very basic and uninteresting ripper. The copies are not bit-for-bit identical, because it doesn't correct offsets, unlike Plextools or EAC.
And any audio ripper can keep the HDCD stuff.
*

True.. What would you suggest? I've been trying out Alcohol 120% and been seeing promising results. Unfortunately (Thanks to the EU), it's now illegal.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Pio2001
post Jul 26 2004, 01:03
Post #9


Moderator


Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 3936
Joined: 29-September 01
Member No.: 73



QUOTE (Simba7 @ Jul 25 2004, 10:59 PM)
What would you suggest?
*


For what purpose ?
If you want to copy audio CD perfectly, use EAC, or Plextools.
If you want to copy any CD bit for bit, you're out of luck, CD burners have much less abilities than professional cutters for pressed CDs. There are many things that they can't access (C2 errors, twin sectors, weak sectors...)
If you want to backup copy protected audio CDs, you should find a drive that doesn't see the protection and reads it like a normal CD.
If you want to backup protected CD ROMs, you're in the wrong forum.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
westgroveg
post Jul 26 2004, 03:59
Post #10





Group: Members
Posts: 1236
Joined: 5-October 01
Member No.: 220



The only common differences that I could think of between a CD extracted & burnt with EAC (assuming it was extracted without errors & a CUE sheet) & an original is sample offsets which is only milliseconds anyway but means the CD is not a bit-exact copy. Many drives don't allow overreading into the offset.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
k.eight.a
post Sep 20 2004, 22:53
Post #11





Group: Members
Posts: 434
Joined: 31-October 03
From: Europe, CZ
Member No.: 9571



QUOTE (westgroveg @ Jul 25 2004, 06:59 PM)
Many drives don't allow overreading into the offset.
*


Yes, that's right! But almost every CD begins and ends with half second of digital silence (in average), so maily this is not an issue...


--------------------
Sorry for my poor English, I'm trying to get better... ;)
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled, was convincing the world he didn't exist."
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ElementDave
post Sep 21 2004, 02:12
Post #12





Group: Members
Posts: 35
Joined: 14-October 03
Member No.: 9302



QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Jul 6 2004, 06:42 AM)
QUOTE (Simba7 @ Jul 6 2004, 08:08 AM)
Depends on the recording software.. If it's burnt with CloneCD, it's usually a bit-for-bit exact copy of the original. It even keeps the HDCD stuff.


For audio, CloneCD is a very basic and uninteresting ripper. The copies are not bit-for-bit identical, because it doesn't correct offsets, unlike Plextools or EAC.
And any audio ripper can keep the HDCD stuff.
*

Exactly. I think "HDCD" is somewhat of a misnomer since the extra bits are in the 16-bit bit stream and requires HDCD-aware software. If anything, the technology probably makes the CD sound worse for ordinary players (though I doubt perceptibly so).

Dave
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ElementDave
post Sep 21 2004, 02:35
Post #13





Group: Members
Posts: 35
Joined: 14-October 03
Member No.: 9302



QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Jul 25 2004, 08:03 PM)
QUOTE (Simba7 @ Jul 25 2004, 10:59 PM)
What would you suggest?
*


For what purpose ?
If you want to copy audio CD perfectly, use EAC, or Plextools.
If you want to copy any CD bit for bit, you're out of luck, CD burners have much less abilities than professional cutters for pressed CDs. There are many things that they can't access (C2 errors, twin sectors, weak sectors...)
If you want to backup copy protected audio CDs, you should find a drive that doesn't see the protection and reads it like a normal CD.
If you want to backup protected CD ROMs, you're in the wrong forum.
*



Pio,
Sorry, this diverging a bit from the topic, but do you have a link to a FAQ or something which explains the acceptable range of C1 errors from recorded CD-Rs, when scanning media with tools such as Plextools, KProbe, and CD-Speed, etc? Specifically, I'm trying to recall what a good total C1 error count might be for a freshly burned CD. Also wondering if there is a per-sector (or other unit) threshold for C1 errors...
Hmm.. I have some 1-2 year old recorded CDs which were thoroughly scanned at the time after burning. I should recheck some of them and report the results in the appropriate place -- don't recall which forum(s), offhand. Most were recorded on 74 min. Memorex, 80 min. Sony, or 74 min. Mitsui (Gold and Silver).

Dave
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Never_Again
post Sep 21 2004, 07:41
Post #14





Group: Members (Donating)
Posts: 698
Joined: 31-March 04
From: NYC
Member No.: 13152



For C1 the officially acceptable max rate is 220 errors a second. IIRC, it is 1/hr for C2, but generally C2s are considered unacceptable.
From CDFreaks' media archive:
CODE
The error values are also displayed in the top area of the image. You will see the "max", "total" and "average" counts showing there. Max and total are the most important values, the average count is just that, an average of all the error values on the scan. It can be misleading sometimes, so don't fall into the trap of using the average counts as a measure of "quality". A disc can have fairly high average C1 value, and still be a very good burn.
In VERY general terms any C1 average count under 10 might be acceptable, but higher values are not always the end of the world either. But, on CDR's we prefer to see avarage C1 counts under 2, with max counts under 20.


Post your scans to CDFreaks' CD-R(W) Media tests archive. Be sure to read the posting guidelines thoroughly first.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 2nd September 2014 - 09:49