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The Core Media Player 5, Going open source?
rjamorim
post May 14 2004, 04:25
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A friend sent me this link some minutes ago:

http://tcmp5.corecodec.org/

Seems Media Player Classic will get some competition in the open source media player field smile.gif

I found a binary here:
http://blacksun.corecodec.org/tcmp5/release5.rar


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Bonzi
post May 14 2004, 06:17
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Yes, I saw this too a while ago; tcmp5 cvs interesting...
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Latexxx
post May 14 2004, 15:08
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QUOTE (Bonzi @ May 14 2004, 07:17 AM)
Yes, I saw this too a while ago; tcmp5 cvs interesting...

I noticed that some time ago and asked some questions at their irc channel but unfortunately there was nobody to answer.
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rjamorim
post May 15 2004, 19:42
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The link to the binary now returns 404. I'm itching to upload it to RW, but I guess they have a good reason to pull it offline biggrin.gif


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BlackSun
post May 15 2004, 21:59
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well, in fact there is nothing interesting to see yet, it can't even barely play a video yet crying.gif

And it's quite instable, I don't want to make people reboot their computers unsure.gif
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i4004
post May 16 2004, 06:38
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now wait a minute;you know how to make tcmp4(which brings some $$$) and tcmp5 has instant problems?

doesn't sound so nice....

but if you say you can do one thing at many different ways,then..well...yes...
you've find a good explanation anyway...

let me know when you're ready to beat zplayer2.90
(sorry,i couldn't resist.. smile.gif )

not to be misunderstood;i'm using tcmp4 for some stuff.....you have equalizer and some other goodies...

btw. polls still rule! biggrin.gif
http://www.corecoded.com/modules.php?op=mo...order=0&thold=0
http://www.corecoded.com/modules.php?op=mo...=index&pollID=9
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BetaBoy
post May 16 2004, 14:15
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i4004.... ugh ... I should have know someone would troll this post. Please note ... all TCMP4 donations when people register go back into CoreCodec.... How do you think we pay for the sites, the hardware and get stuff for our Guru admin Cyt0plas when he needs them? I don't wanna rely on being a SF.net and be so unfocused it makes my head spin.

Please note also I said nothing about TCMP5 being free either..... but please wait for the details.

This post has been edited by BetaBoy: May 16 2004, 17:58


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i4004
post May 16 2004, 20:56
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if i didn't liked it,it says nothing (no doubt)

i just don't like the idea;to have same people develop shareware and freeware simultaneously....i think they won't care about the freeware project...(because you will tell them;"work on this in your 'spare' time"...)

QUOTE
Please note also I said nothing about TCMP5 being free either

ohh..right,right
so it's opensource to begin with
( http://tcmp5.corecodec.org/ )
and then "we'll see"?
like divx networks?

well,i hope NOT!

but you're right;it's too soon to talk about it....
i've just came here and let you know i don't like the moral of it....
(the moral where same group of people has a task of making completely different player that'll be opensource,while still working on shareware (yeap,i called it shareware twice in this post) version...i hope you get to do it all)

i hope tcmp5 becomes best freeware(!) player out there....

no reason to get upset because i said this....

no,this wasn't trolling....it was just my idea of moral...nothing more...
my idea says it ok to go either way,but can you go both ways and still have 2 nice players?

let's see....

best wishes to tcmp team...
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rjamorim
post May 18 2004, 16:56
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QUOTE (i4004 @ May 16 2004, 04:56 PM)
ohh..right,right
so it's opensource to begin with
( http://tcmp5.corecodec.org/ )
and then "we'll see"?
like divx networks?

Let's play devil's advocate, shall we?

Funny you mention that, because Dan Marlin happened to be part of DivX Networks. But that isn't interesting for this discussion.

What I personally find interesting is that TCMP5 is going to be released under the QPL. This license has to singularities:

- You can't branch projects released under the QPL. Therefore, someone won't be able to take the codebase and create "TCMP5++" if he's unhappy with standard TCMP5

- The original developers get rights over the code you wrote. Quoting:
QUOTE
When modifications to the Software are released under this license, a non-exclusive royalty-free right is granted to the initial developer of the Software


For these reasons, I'm personally not a fan of QPL. People here already know I'm far from being a GNU enthusiast, but I would even prefer the GPL or LGPL over the QPL. They give the users more reassurance about the future of the app.

Regards;

Roberto.


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i4004
post May 18 2004, 20:39
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roberto...you started this thread....
in simillar situation i would of just skipped it....

regarding mpc i dunno if it's fair to call it "nice example of opensource",as only gabest is developing it....
and,by god it could use a kick here and there to be able to compete with the best (zplayer...best for my tv-out anyway...)

however it's all offtopic now,i (honestly) didn't know about betaboy's 'better' past etc.(i would be ashamed(not proud!) to participate in dxn's work....and it's not just closing of the source issue,but all the things that happened afterwards....i mean with the quality of the encore based codecs etc. this all could be avoided if more hands were helping out! this way,we have a bunch of codecs that don't know how to handle particular video.sources(ie noise)....it is 2004 people!divx3 was 2000.! )

regardless of everything,i'm still wishing them success....make a good player and i'll use it....blight,gabest,betaboy....whoever!

license type?
don't matter at all to me;just make a nice software...if you make it nice enough it doesn't need any licenses!(ie it just works,so no need to alter anything)
can you name a piece of open-source software that was utter-crap to begin with,and now it's a blast?
(i can't see such stuff in video-field...crap stayed crap,and good things only got better!)

sometimes i see very short and very limiting licenses,but the software works like a swiss-clock;i don't question it's license at all!
but if you have crap and license it in a funny ways(or not at all like dxn) then something is not quite right in your head!
rota was involved in this by a marketing-person,not an video-encoding person!

i said enuff........
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robUx4
post May 18 2004, 20:54
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QUOTE (i4004 @ May 18 2004, 08:39 PM)
regarding mpc i dunno if it's fair to call it "nice example of opensource",as only gabest is developing it....

Because you don't know what's going on behind the scene... Maybe Gabest is the only one to commpit changes on his CVS (or maybe Toff has access to too ?) but we (Matroska & CoreCodec) sometimes correct bugs and submit the changes to Gabest. I'm sure it happens also from elsewhere. So Gabest controls the patches, nothing more nothing less. He's just not as protected as the QPL could do for him wink.gif

I feel rather sad that Gabest is much more alone now than he used to be (not on IRC and rarely on forums anymore). That's also one reason I think there needs to be another good alternative.


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rjamorim
post May 18 2004, 20:56
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QUOTE (robUx4 @ May 18 2004, 04:54 PM)
He's just not as protected as the QPL could do for him wink.gif

What protection? Protection that noone will branch his app? Protection that he will never be able to close source and start selling it because the license doesn't force contributors to hand over their rights? Bleh.

If QPL was about protecting developers or projects, don't you think it would be more popular than the ubiquitous GPL, LGPL and BSD?

This post has been edited by rjamorim: May 18 2004, 20:59


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BetaBoy
post May 19 2004, 00:39
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ May 18 2004, 07:56 PM)
QUOTE (robUx4 @ May 18 2004, 04:54 PM)
He's just not as protected as the QPL could do for him wink.gif

What protection? Protection that noone will branch his app? Protection that he will never be able to close source and start selling it because the license doesn't force contributors to hand over their rights? Bleh.

If QPL was about protecting developers or projects, don't you think it would be more popular than the ubiquitous GPL, LGPL and BSD?

rjamorim.... I gotta tell ya. It is still is a hard choice for us to use QPL. But it does have advantages that in a media player I think warrants it. Those being what you stated....

Although Ludovic leans towards a GPL approach (iirc Toff does not care)... at this point I am against it for the simple fact as stated above. However as always I am always listening to what others say and once I post about TCMP5 in more detail, I would invite such discussion.

i4004... as far as working for DivXNetworks... I am damn proud of what I did when I worked there.... Why? mmm better yet... wonder why I am not there now? It was by my choice not to return... plain and simple. An offer was on the table for me to renew my contract.... but I opted not too. Also.... if you knew anything about me 'Dan "BetaBoy" Marlin' and my relationship to DivX and the community.... then you needs to ask or read up before commenting...... a few facts;

- It was my site MyDivX.com that is now DivX.com
- I busted my ass in making a kick ass community (only to see it now in ruins)
- I was told to not comment on an issues directly related to OpenDivX and the licensing.
- ProjectMayo and the issues directly related to the OpenDivX Codec and Decore2 issue is why I founded CoreCodec.
- DXN intentions were good for the most part back then.... but behind it as many had guessed were it's 'corporate effects'.

My intentions with TCMP5 are nothing more then coming up with a model that can allow monies to be put back into the community (been doing this now for over 1 year like this). Now to go into more detail on my long term plans for TCMP5 but more for CoreCodec is something different. For us it is directly related to getting sponsorship (I have talked to IBM several times about this) and to expand the services for projects hosted on CoreCodec..... maybe something like being the middle man for any third parties. It's a work in progress... but at the rate we are growing... (over 700,000 uniques a month now from all our sites) it's a progress that will come more sooner then later.

and hey... if it does work out the way we plan for sponsorship... then GPL would be not be such a bad idea for TCMP5 after all.... but till then.

This post has been edited by BetaBoy: May 19 2004, 00:44


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ChristianHJW
post May 25 2004, 18:10
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Returning from a nice and relaxing 2 weeks vacation in Italy, and reading this thread here ....... i really wonder when will be the time when Corecodec's intentions will not be questioned anymore ...... maybe if we release a competitive product to Adobe Premiere open source and freeware, lets see ....


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Bonzi
post May 27 2004, 20:52
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QUOTE (ChristianHJW @ May 25 2004, 09:10 AM)
Returning from a nice and relaxing 2 weeks vacation in Italy, and reading this thread here ....... i really wonder when will be the time when Corecodec's intentions will not be questioned anymore ...... maybe if we release a competitive product to Adobe Premiere open source and freeware, lets see ....

Well it doesn't seem that other team members are really interested in a open source non-linear editor http://lists.matroska.org/pipermail/matros...May/000845.html seems they would like to make some money for CC.org. There is nothing wrong with this IMHO. I hope they would consider releasing it as freeware though with Paypal donations like winamp did sooo many years ago, like maybe $10-15? Anyway, I hope everyone will see you guys do have good intentions and aren't going to make the project closed source as soon as it becomes good like DXN. BTW considering CC commitment to free and largely open source solutions over the past couple of years and Dan's experience with the DXN open/closed source fiasco. It is hard to imagine that the same mistake would be made twice especially since now when BetaBoy et al. actually have some control over the situation unlike the DXN situation. BTW I hope you had a nice holiday ChristianHJW smile.gif.
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ChristianHJW
post May 30 2004, 12:34
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QUOTE (Bonzi @ May 27 2004, 07:52 PM)
QUOTE (ChristianHJW @ May 25 2004, 09:10 AM)
Returning from a nice and relaxing 2 weeks vacation in Italy, and reading this thread here ....... i really wonder when will be the time when Corecodec's intentions will not be questioned anymore ...... maybe if we release a competitive product to Adobe Premiere open source and freeware, lets see ....

Well it doesn't seem that other team members are really interested in a open source non-linear editor http://lists.matroska.org/pipermail/matros...May/000845.html seems they would like to make some money for CC.org. There is nothing wrong with this IMHO. I hope they would consider releasing it as freeware though with Paypal donations like winamp did sooo many years ago, like maybe $10-15?

Well, our present hosting situation is everything but satisfying, our server is wandering from one host to the next, doesnt really get the attention it needs and the hardware is dying all the time.

So, i understand Steve's wish to create some form of revenues to be able to pay for a nice, professional hosting. On the other hand, i made clear in my dsicussion with him today that the majority of our users and contributors would not think like he does on this matter, and would turn our back on the projects and the community if we took this step.

We need to find another solution, keep the costs as low as possible, and still rely on donations to cover them, thats my personal opinion. A 'semi-commercial' step would be misunderstood from the users, being warned from what happened to OpenDivX, and the fact that Dan happened to be a member of DXN for a certain time ( although with no direct involvement in what happened, he was simply building a community for it ) doesnt really help here either wink.gif ....

What is demotivating me for the time being was the ZERO reaction on all my recent invitations to other developers to join us ...... seems everybody likes the stuff we are doing and is using it a lot, but nobody is really wanting to contribute to it sad.gif .....


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robUx4
post May 30 2004, 19:31
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I'd like to add a few things...

First, giving away stuff for free costs money, especially hardware and bandwidth. You may have encountered some problems here on HA and CoreCodec has been down for a week or so. We all pay for doing the stuff we do for free ! So maybe people should start realise that first. We also give a lot of our free time because none of us work on this for the money.

Now we are thinking of "business models" to keep the things running and progressing for Matroska and CoreCodec. At least to pay the bandwidth, hardware and royalties (if we distribute patented stuff). And it seems the only possible model right now in the Open Source world is to go donationware. And that's probably what we'll mostly do in the future. (so far we never asked money to anyone for Matroska)

We have a lot of plans for the future, it's only the beggining wink.gif So we need to make sure we can scale up our servers (either by ads or donations). My idea is also to hire a UI developer because it seems none of them work in the OSS world and IMO that's a part is too often neglected. But that won't happen as long as we have no money (or good will).

For the rest, be assured that you'll always get more than expected for your money (nada) from us like open source software that support standards, most codec as possible and cross-platform (that is also too often neglected)...


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rjamorim
post May 30 2004, 19:37
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Why don't you move to SourceForge, if even temporarily? That would eliminate the bandwidth and hardware problems.


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Lefungus
post May 30 2004, 21:34
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You can't remove projects from Sourceforge.


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robUx4
post May 30 2004, 21:43
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ May 30 2004, 07:37 PM)
Why don't you move to SourceForge, if even temporarily? That would eliminate the bandwidth and hardware problems.

Because it's slow ? Because it doesn't work half of the time (the reason why we left) ? Because we like CoreCodec ? Because we want to use Subversion instead of CVS ? Because the MLs of SourceForge include ads ? Because the projects contain ads too ? And so on...


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rjamorim
post May 30 2004, 21:59
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QUOTE (robUx4 @ May 30 2004, 05:43 PM)
Because it's slow ? Because it doesn't work half of the time (the reason why we left) ? Because we like CoreCodec ? Because we want to use Subversion instead of CVS ? Because the MLs of SourceForge include ads ? Because the projects contain ads too ? And so on...

Hehe. But you can't beat it's price tag, and that would rid you guys from the psychological stress of choosing between sharing your sources or not.

About Ads: What's the problem with them? They are non-intrusive, sometimes interesting, and help keep their services free.

SF might have it's problems, but that didn't hinder some wonderful projects to start or mature there. Lame, VirtualDub, CDex, eMule, BitTorrent, Gabest's stuff... the list is nearly endless.

This post has been edited by rjamorim: May 30 2004, 22:03


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robUx4
post May 31 2004, 08:49
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Sure, some great projects are on SF, but maybe too much. And they all go there because there's no good alternative, not because it's awesome... That's a good reason to start other alternatives.

BTW, you could also ask Xiph why they are not on SF wink.gif CoreCodec and Xiph tend to have similar goals.

edit : from Monty
QUOTE
Patch completed. Our SVN is down right now, I'll commit in the morning.


We even share the same problems wink.gif

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Latexxx
post May 31 2004, 18:04
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Well, there are BerliOS and Savannah. BerliOS even supports SVN.
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rjamorim
post May 31 2004, 20:09
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QUOTE (Latexxx @ May 31 2004, 02:04 PM)
Well, there are BerliOS and Savannah. BerliOS even supports SVN.

Precisely. Someone claiming there is no good alternative to SF only shows he is too lazy to search.

From your complains about SF: Berlios isn't slow, I've never seen it down, they use SVN, and they use very unobtrusive Google ads on project pages (dunno about mailing lists, but considering you use gmane anyway, it should make no difference)

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danchr
post May 31 2004, 23:12
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sunsite.dk is another good alternative. They offer you bare bones hosting: CVS, mailing lists and a web site. Plus, they're reliable.
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