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List of recommended LAME settings, Discussion
AreteOne
post Nov 19 2002, 13:51
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Until reading thru the commentary regarding LAME and the --alt-present settings, I'd been using --r3mix. In reading thru that website, the argument for using the -V1 setting was made (I felt rather convincingly) as part of its preset. The --alt-presets use -V2.

I'd like to get some opinions on any possible negative consequences (other than file size) of adding the -V1 switch to --alt-preset. i'm concerned that doing so might introduce something that conflicts with the code-level tuning implemented for this.

I've done some testing and comparisons of my own, and I haven't heard anything negative so far, but I'm more interested in what the theory of this is. I noticed above that someone added -V0 and wound up getting some whoosing at the end of some files.

TIA.
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user
post Nov 21 2002, 17:24
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" adding the -V1 switch to --alt-preset. i'm concerned that doing so might introduce something that conflicts with the code-level tuning implemented for this. "


You know it by yourselfs.

The alt-presets are tuned as they are.
Yes, adding -V1 may harm the internal routines, codes. (btw, the informations at r3mix are outdated.)
There is a reason for the use of V2 in alt-presets.

This post has been edited by user: Nov 21 2002, 17:25


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AreteOne
post Nov 21 2002, 19:16
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QUOTE
There is a reason for the use of V2 in alt-presets.


Which is?

It may well be that it was decided the best compromise between quality and size was -V2 for the preset, but that if someone wanted to accept the increased file size for the return of the higher average bitrate, it would work.

If the preset is so tuned to -V2 that changing it to -V1 breaks the result, then perhaps the preset should ignore the -V setting. Perhaps it will do so in a future release. At this time, it accepts it.
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user
post Nov 21 2002, 20:16
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if you want higher quality than standard (let's say filesize), then select ap extreme. (and guess what, it uses v2, too ?!)


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KikeG
post Nov 22 2002, 09:35
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QUOTE (spiral atmosphere @ Nov 19 2002 - 01:30 PM)
IŽm using the latest released LAME 3.93

This is not recommended. Instead, use 3.92, or better the 3.90.2 recommended version. For that preset, 3.90 is fine too (If I'm not wrong).
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AreteOne
post Nov 22 2002, 11:10
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It was noted over on the MP3Gain thread that -V1 with the --alt-presets is thought to not provide additional quality while at the same time wastes bits and may introduce problems in the 320kbs frames. I tried to go back to R3Mix site, but it's changed now, it reread its argument for -V1.

If I understand correctly, the R3Mix preset was only a shorthand for LAME options, whereas the --alt-presets combine LAME options with source-level code treaking that produce output no combination of swtiches alone can. Is that the gist of it?

In some comparisons I did, it seems like --a-ps produces about an additional 10kbs over --r3mix while --a-pe produces 40.

Comments?
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CiTay
post Nov 28 2002, 18:51
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Corrected some links...

and new: EasyLAME 1.3 (RazorLAME frontend, pre-configured with the alt-presets), now also available in english!
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sven_Bent
post Nov 28 2002, 19:48
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the -v 0 and -v 1 are experimentalt and not really teste if it really gives high quality at all.

wheres the alt presets with -v2 have been testet and tweaked over several months by dibrom and other developers. and plus there have been open listening test.

This post has been edited by sven_Bent: Nov 28 2002, 19:51


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Volcano
post Nov 28 2002, 20:58
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QUOTE (CiTay @ Nov 28 2002 - 06:51 PM)
and new: EasyLAME 1.3 (RazorLAME frontend, pre-configured with the alt-presets), now also available in english!

Thanks, CiTay.

I'd like to encourage anybody involved in the "newbie education process" to promote EasyLAME. biggrin.gif It's like win32LAME (which was highly popular), except for the fact that it is not r3mix-poisoned.
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edekba
post Nov 29 2002, 03:48
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QUOTE
Of course. Let's not forget though that the cbr and abr modes of the --alt-presets never made use of code level tweaks. They are simply switch aliases (and also have not been tuned even close to that the VBR presets have been). It's no surprise that you can get better quality in some cases then by a different set of switches. VBR is a totally different story though, and I'm much more skeptical about getting better quality than the --alt-preset VBR modes via simple command line switches without very extensive help and motivation from one of the core LAME developers.


That was said by dibrom. I got a question then ... what exactly does -ap cbr <bitrate> do & what do they actually represent code wise? If they do not make use of the code level tweaks ... then they are what just normal code that is just has been shrank so easier to remember & use?

I have always (since ... Jan of this yr when i found out about -r3mix & then later -aps) that the -aps all make use of the code level tweaks.
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JohnV
post Nov 29 2002, 04:35
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QUOTE (edekba @ Nov 29 2002 - 04:48 AM)
That was said by dibrom. I got a question then ... what exactly does -ap cbr <bitrate> do & what do they actually represent code wise? If they do not make use of the code level tweaks ... then they are what just normal code that is just has been shrank so easier to remember & use?

cbr/abr modes of alt-presets combine some external switches together.
For example --alt-preset cbr 128 is simply the same as:
-h -b 128 --nspsytune -m j --lowpass 17500 --athtype 2 --ns-bass -6 --scale 0.93


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edekba
post Nov 29 2002, 07:24
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..... wow I did not know that....

Thanks
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edekba
post Dec 2 2002, 08:18
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While I was reading http://www.mp3dev.org/mp3/doc/html/presets.html i became confused once again.

are these -preset the same as -alt-preset ??

ie:
--preset standard = -aps
--preset extreme = -ape


If not should i use the -aps or just --preset?
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Dibrom
post Dec 2 2002, 08:22
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Yes, the --alt-presets can be accessed simply with --preset now. So --alt-preset standard is the same thing as --preset standard.
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alfa156
post Jan 9 2003, 09:52
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QUOTE (JohnV @ Nov 28 2002 - 07:35 PM)
QUOTE (edekba @ Nov 29 2002 - 04:48 AM)
That was said by dibrom. I got a question then ... what exactly does -ap cbr <bitrate> do & what do they actually represent code wise? If they do not make use of the code level tweaks ... then they are what just normal code that is just has been shrank so easier to remember & use?

cbr/abr modes of alt-presets combine some external switches together.
For example --alt-preset cbr 128 is simply the same as:
-h -b 128 --nspsytune -m j --lowpass 17500 --athtype 2 --ns-bass -6 --scale 0.93

what is the switch equivalent of the --alt-preset standard, --alt-preset extreme, --alt-preset insane?

thank you!

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Pearson
post Jan 9 2003, 10:14
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There are no commandline equivalents to those presets.

Read the thread 'Frequently Asked Questions' in the general forum:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....t=ST&f=1&t=4917

It has, among other things, a link to this thread:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....t=ST&f=16&t=593

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_Shorty
post Jan 9 2003, 10:14
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there is none, alt-preset standard/extreme/insane use code-level tweaks that can't otherwise be accessed, no combination of command line options will give you the same results as those presets
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alfa156
post Jan 14 2003, 19:02
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QUOTE (Volcano @ Nov 28 2002 - 11:58 AM)
QUOTE (CiTay @ Nov 28 2002 - 06:51 PM)
and new: EasyLAME 1.3 (RazorLAME frontend, pre-configured with the alt-presets), now also available in english!

Thanks, CiTay.

I'd like to encourage anybody involved in the "newbie education process" to promote EasyLAME. biggrin.gif It's like win32LAME (which was highly popular), except for the fact that it is not r3mix-poisoned.

Q1: I am using razorlame and i encode with --alt-preset standard. I also have downloaded the 3.90.2 lame (exe) that is recommended. Does Easylame offer anything new?

Q2: After you download razorlame and in order to get it to work with lame 3.90.2 you have to overwrite the razorlame.dat file with the one in the lame zip? why is this? what is this razorlame.dat file and what does it do?

thank you

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CiTay
post Jan 14 2003, 20:03
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A1: Nope, except that you have all the alt-presets as Razorlame presets in EasyLAME.

A2: It has to do with the custom message that lame.exe shows during encoding (the one that points to this forum). Razorlame doesn't recognize that line and stops with an error. The razorlame.dat included in the 3.90.2 zip file adds recognition for that message.
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Raptor
post Feb 9 2003, 00:20
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Would it be higher quality to encode with "--alt-preset 320", or with "--alt-preset insane"/"--alt-preset cbr 320"? I'm just curious if the algorithm for abr would be better. Does insane still use joint stereo?
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_Shorty
post Feb 9 2003, 03:13
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forget about joint stereo, there's nothing wrong with it in lame.
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Raptor
post Feb 9 2003, 03:20
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I just did two separate encodes, one with '--alt-preset insane' (supposedly CBR) and the other with '--alt-preset 320' (supposedly ABR). I noticed that the file sizes were practically the same, so I generated CRC-32 and MD5 checksums on one group, and tested them on the other group.. bit-for-bit exact. Should this be happening? Does '--alt-preset 320' switch over to CBR?

I'm using Dibrom's LAME 3.90.2 compile (exe).

When I try anything less than '320' with '--alt-preset', for instance '--alt-preset 319', LAME switches from:

Encoding as 44.1 kHz 320 kbps j-stereo MPEG-1 Layer III (4.5x) qval=2

(the same as reported for '--alt-preset insane') to:

Encoding as 44.1 kHz average 319 kbps j-stereo MPEG-1 Layer III (4.6x) qval=2

and shows the ABR graphs as it should. It is rather misleading in the instructions (and on the first page of this site) when it says that '--alt-preset <bitrate>' is also for 320 kbit, when it obviously switches to CBR.

So, my question now is, which is higher quality, '--alt-preset 319' or '--alt-preset insane'? Next, if VBR gives higher quality than ABR at higher bitrates (according to the help files), why isn't there a '--alt-preset vbr <bitrate>'? There should be, since '--alt-preset extreme', according to help, only reaches 220-270 kbit.
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Drover's Dog
post Feb 9 2003, 04:46
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Raptor

It stands to reason if you're going to tell LAME to encode at an average bitrate (abr) of 320 and 320 is the maximum bitrate for the encoder, it's only going to encode at 320! Therefore, this would be the same as setting it at --alt-preset insane or --alt-preset CBR 320 (these are the same).

Use abr settings to encode VBR at the average bitrate you specify, which needs to be significantly less than 320 to derive any benefit from using it, namely smaller files. If you're not worried about file size, you may as well use 320 CBR.

Try something like --alt-preset 200 if you really want to use ABR.

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DrD
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john33
post Feb 9 2003, 11:43
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If you specify --alt-preset 320, it is substituted with --alt-preset insane in the code, so you will get identical results. wink.gif


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Raptor
post Feb 11 2003, 00:35
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Do you people not read posts at all? I realize that it switches to CBR as you can see by this snipped from my previous post:
QUOTE
It is rather misleading in the instructions (and on the first page of this site) when it says that '--alt-preset <bitrate>' is also for 320 kbit, when it obviously switches to CBR.


My complaint is that this isn't documented and/or the documentation is misleading. Also, could I possibly get an answer to the actual questions from my post?
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