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Itunes destroy mi IDE interface :(, my pc's near dead bouhouhou
Soren
post Mar 24 2004, 02:09
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Itunes completly break my ide interface crying.gif last night while ripping a cd, normal one non sratched. Now windows didn't detect both of me cd-r drives, one of them, my LG dvd-rom reader isn't even found in the bios. I suspect him dead as i wasn't even able to pull out the disk with a little iron tip in the tiny hole. Oh and i forget to say now my HD spinning non stop, if the HD led is right. unsure.gif

Well the least i can say, ITunes windows integration isn't really succesfull from a hardware point of view. EAC + Foobar never mess something, fool i am to be attracted by eye candy....

Soren
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lazyn00b
post Mar 24 2004, 02:41
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So basically you are saying that your computer broke while you happened to be using iTunes... so it must be iTunes' fault??

Ridiculous! rolleyes.gif
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Soren
post Mar 24 2004, 03:05
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Well, when ide explode while ripping cd, i tend to believe there's a causality link..AND when i look on the web and i see they can be problems with VIA chipset and Itunes, that tend to enforce the causality link. Of course, as i said in a prvious post, causalty link is nowhere a fact, however the word "ridiculous" seems not very well suited.

Soren

PC : i just saw that nowhere i say that my pc crash, only my secondary ide interface whos top working, but indeed it's ridiculous to think that must be the ripping program who mess things, it must have something to do with my dog running after his tail yesterday.... rolleyes.gif

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rjamorim
post Mar 24 2004, 03:13
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My sound card broke while I was using attrib. Damned attrib!


BTW: http://pessoal.onda.com.br/rjamorim/kill_baby.jpg

And yes, that is ridiculous. You should blame VIA for making the worst chipset ever (I know, I used VIA for 3 years) and not iTunes.

Also, the ripping engine (which interacts with the IDE interface and the CD drive) is provided by Gear in the Win32 version.

Please, get informed before claiming something you obviously have no clue about.

This post has been edited by rjamorim: Mar 24 2004, 03:15


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TrNSZ
post Mar 24 2004, 03:21
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There are very, very, very few known cases where hardware can be damaged by software - especially on new operating systems with new applications. There are actually only a few documented modern cases of this happening, and it usually wasn't true hardware damage but either a flaw in design or an incompatibility that was introduced between two components.

There were reports of the Cactus / SafeDisc CD piracy protection causing damage to hardware. Loudspeakers and tweeters were being blown and iMacs and Gateway all-in-one computers were having to be serviced because the system wouldn't boot off the hard disk with the "bad" CD in, but you couldn't eject the drive without booting up first.

This isn't really a software problem, but a problem of something claiming to be a compliant CD Audio disc but is not. It's not due to Cactus or SafeDisc software. There were some viruses that tried to damage hardware too by exploiting known problems like the CIH virus that erased PC flash BIOS chips. This isn't hardware damage either, just misuse. A computer will write whatever you tell it to write to a flash chip. Flash it back and it's working again -- it wasn't ever really damaged.

Also, to quote the Laws of Programing, "A hardware failure will cause system software to crash, and the customer engineer will blame the programmer". In short, most PC software cannot directly and physically damage your hardware.

Using EAC on a stack of discs you keep in the gravel pit can cause a marginal drive to die. That drive can die in a way that it might take out the whole IDE chain, or maybe even the whole motherboard. I've seen worse happen first-hand. There was a bug in the SANE scanner driver that caused blown fuses on Epson scanners.

The problem was the motor was being driven out of spec. The older SANE driver allowed you to scan at 2400dpi on 1200dpi scanners, often blowing motors on fuses on these Epson 12xx models. Similar problems existed on older monitors; they could be "blown" by changing between resolutions very quickly or changing to unsupported resolutions. There is at least one very old trojan I know of that tries to damage the heads on MFM and RLL hard disks by seeking and writing random data out, wearing out the mechanism. However, these aren't true incidents either.

If that was the case, I'd write a program in GWBASIC for DOS that "damages" old "font-ball" style impact printers by printing the same character over and over again, wearing it out. Software causing premature wear on hardware and causing it to fail is the fault of the hardware, IMHO.

This trend of blaming software on bad or marginal hardware design is getting going the wrong way, and it has to stop! Remember the talk a bit back about the new ATI Catalyst (3.6? 3.8?) drivers blowing up monitors and video cards? Windows 95 causing CD-ROM drives to eject while the disc was still spinning causing 'possible injuries' to bystanders? Foobar2000 making Athlon boxes to melt when doing long CPU intensive operations? Turns out the video card problems really weren't, the drives firmware was broken and they ejected the discs while spinning on any software eject command, and the Athlon machines had broken heat-sink fans. =/

I believe it to be the case that your hardware was marginal and while unlikley, the failyre of the drive may have caused other damages possibly even to other devices on the IDE chain.

Remember Murphy's Laws:

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. Also remember, if there is a worse time for something to go wrong, it will happen then. Finally, if something simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.
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rjamorim
post Mar 24 2004, 03:28
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QUOTE (TrNSZ @ Mar 23 2004, 11:21 PM)
This trend of blaming software on bad or marginal hardware design is getting going the wrong way, and it has to stop!

I agree!

Keep in mind he is using VIA, of all chipsets.


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ViPER1313
post Mar 24 2004, 04:54
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QUOTE (TrNSZ @ Mar 23 2004, 10:21 PM)
This trend of blaming software on bad or marginal hardware design is getting going the wrong way, and it has to stop!  Remember the talk a bit back about the new ATI Catalyst (3.6? 3.8?) drivers blowing up monitors and video cards?

This issue might have actually existed with a few card / monitor combinations. The drivers supposedly caused certain ATI cards to keep switching refresh rates, which in turn could quite possibly damage a person's monitor. No, the drivers didn't cause the monitors to "blow up", but it did cause them to sync / refresh / sync / refresh themselves to death. My brothers ATI 9600 Pro / new NEC 17in monitor seems to try and sync to a new refresh rate 2-3 times when entering a game, but it has never damaged the monitor. Who really knows.......

QUOTE (rjamorim @ Mar 23 2004, 10:28 PM)
You should blame VIA for making the worst chipset ever (I know, I used VIA for 3 years)
--------------------------------------------------------
Keep in mind he is using VIA, of all chipsets.


Quit bashing VIA mad.gif . VIA's newer chipsets are no worse than chips from Intel and SIS. VIA might have had some issues with older chipsets (KT133A comes to mind) but those days seem to be over, and I don't ever remember reading that VIA chips out-and-out die more than their competitor's chips.

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rjamorim
post Mar 24 2004, 05:01
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QUOTE (ViPER1313 @ Mar 24 2004, 12:54 AM)
Quit bashing VIA

laugh.gif

QUOTE
and I don't ever remember reading that VIA chips out-and-out die more than their competitor's chips.


It's not about dying. It's about conflicting with sound cards and outputting weird noises, it's about going nuts when the bus is being used intensively, it's about refusing to recognize all IDE drives... (I have personally seen all these problems in computers using VIA chipsets)


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ddrawley
post Mar 24 2004, 05:30
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QUOTE
rjamorim
Please, get informed before claiming something you obviously have no clue about.


Is this kind of attitude really necessary? Perhaps you would be well served by getting some anger management classes. I don't think the HA community is here for you to vent on.

As to the Via chipsets, older VIA sets seem to have more IRQ, PCI, and Linux issues. The newer chipsets are turning up less hits on a Google search.

That said, my personal experience has shown the Intel chipsets to be solid, followed by NVidia. I would use Via last, and avoid SIS completely. I must add, I have not used SIS for about two years. I cannot comment on their new chips.

Edit : Copy of TOS #2
-> 2.

Messages which are found to be abusive, obscene, vulgar, hateful, slanderous, threatening, or which are otherwise in violation of any laws, deemed as such by the Hydrogenaudio staff, and at their sole discretion, will be removed. Users which have made posts falling into any of the above categories may face permanent banishment from the forum or their account may be subject to any other actions which are deemed appropriate by the Hydrogenaudio staff. This may include reporting you to the proper authorities such as law enforcement agencies or internet service providers. Logs of all forum activity, including the IP address of all posts, are recorded to aid in enforcement of these conditions.

Explanation: Over time, Hydrogenaudio has had some issues with rude, unfriendly, or otherwise inappropriate personal comments made by some users. This is unacceptable. Any users which unnecessarily contribute to so-called "flame-wars" will be reprimanded within the limitations of Hydrogenaudio.

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bidz
post Mar 24 2004, 05:35
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ Mar 23 2004, 08:01 PM)
QUOTE (ViPER1313 @ Mar 24 2004, 12:54 AM)
Quit bashing VIA

laugh.gif

QUOTE
and I don't ever remember reading that VIA chips out-and-out die more than their competitor's chips.


It's not about dying. It's about conflicting with sound cards and outputting weird noises, it's about going nuts when the bus is being used intensively, it's about refusing to recognize all IDE drives... (I have personally seen all these problems in computers using VIA chipsets)

And also about CRC errors occuring very often when the PCI/IDE devices are working very heavily. Been there, done that (two KT266A motherboards). I thought it was a HDD failure, until i switched to a Nforce2 based motherboard.. after that, i havent had CRC/write/read errors happening at all.

This also caused my Windows XP setup to BSOD from time to time, since, ofcourse, CRC/read/write faults also happened when loading drivers, reading specific system libraries, reading/writing to the pagefile, and so on and so on.

I've also had a Via based motherboard with a P3 733MHz.. also the same thing happened there.

I'll never ever use a VIA based motherboard again, no matter what people say about them.


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rjamorim
post Mar 24 2004, 05:48
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QUOTE (ddrawley @ Mar 24 2004, 01:30 AM)
Is this kind of attitude really necessary?

It is. A guy comes here and accuses a program of doing something very nasty without any decent proof, it just happened to be on when the failure hapened. Mind you he didn't ask "maybe iTunes was responsibe?", no, he went straight to "Itunes completly (sic) break my IDE interface".

QUOTE
Perhaps you would be well served by getting some anger management classes.


Perhaps. And perhaps the thread starter would be well server by getting some clue.

QUOTE
I don't think the HA community is here for you to vent on.


Erm, I'm not venting on the community. I'm not even venting on the thread starter. But he came claiming something very serious without good proof. It's like someone storming in claiming MPC ruined his encoding with artifacts. If he doesn't present proofs, he'll receive worse treatment than what I dispensed to Soren.

QUOTE
Edit : Copy of TOS #2
-> 2.

Messages which are found to be abusive, obscene, vulgar, hateful, slanderous, threatening, or which are otherwise in violation of any laws, deemed as such by the Hydrogenaudio staff, and at their sole discretion, will be removed. Users which have made posts falling into any of the above categories may face permanent banishment from the forum or their account may be subject to any other actions which are deemed appropriate by the Hydrogenaudio staff. This may include reporting you to the proper authorities such as law enforcement agencies or internet service providers. Logs of all forum activity, including the IP address of all posts, are recorded to aid in enforcement of these conditions.

Explanation: Over time, Hydrogenaudio has had some issues with rude, unfriendly, or otherwise inappropriate personal comments made by some users. This is unacceptable. Any users which unnecessarily contribute to so-called "flame-wars" will be reprimanded within the limitations of Hydrogenaudio.


What about TOS 2? My post isn't abusive, vulgar, obscene, hateful, slanderous or whatever. He came doing a crazy and serious statement without proper backing, and you still thing he deserves some slack? Gimme a break.


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dreamliner77
post Mar 24 2004, 05:54
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Hey, I have a via kt133a and the only problems i ever see are occasional sound card crackling


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ViPER1313
post Mar 24 2004, 07:26
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"It's about conflicting with sound cards and outputting weird noises": KT133A Problem
"it's about going nuts when the bus is being used intensively" : KT133A when used w/ SB Live
"it's about refusing to recognize all IDE drives" - I don't know, I've never heard of that.

I have a Shuttle AK31 v3.1 w/ KT266A that runs 2x7200rpm HDs, 512meg of ram, and is running an AMD 2400+ processor (it was only originally designed to run up to a 2100, but it seams Throughbred and Barton cores work as well biggrin.gif ) Right now, my system has been up for 8days 12 hours (I left for spring break and had to turn the system off cool.gif ), all the while running Folding@Home. I also write DVDs w/ my 8x burner, transferring gigs at 5meg/sec to and from each HD. My system also seems to run great with my SBLive Value (no stuttering, pauses, etc...) I don't know how much more stable you can get people.......

I really believe manufacturer build quality and BIOS support, along with a good power supply, are the main keys to system stability. Not all VIA boards suffer the same problems as others built with the same chipset. If you have a problem with a motherboard, why jump so quickly to blame VIA's controller chip? CRC errors with a HD sound like an overclocking / too long (rounded) or bad IDE cable. If you get blue screens all the time, up your CPU voltage .025v and lower your ram timings - you might surprise yourself with a stable system tongue.gif .
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sven_Bent
post Mar 24 2004, 08:29
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Vipes

VIA has around the worst implementation of the PCI bus..lacking many pause commands, that would otherwise make the AthlonXP (example) go more into halt mode and save power/heat)
However due to VIA's abd pci implementation this dos not occur as often as it should be.
SiS and AMD chipset does not have the problem...

most people would not see this as a problem however it is a bad design move.



anyway
once my grandfather died who lived on the other side of this isle, while i was using internet explore....damn microsoft..they are damn murders crying.gif laugh.gif rolleyes.gif

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lucpes
post Mar 24 2004, 09:36
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ASUS, Gigabyte, EPOX or ABIT motherboards with VIA chipsets are generally OK. However, people don't go for a tad bit of 'premium' price and buy cheeper MoBos with poorer chipset implementation/layout and little bios updates/support. This translates in little or more serious malfunctions down the road.

I had ASUS boards with VIA KT133, KT133A, KT266A and now have a KT333 board (I know, they're all a little outdated) - ZERO problems!
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FrDakota
post Mar 24 2004, 14:59
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Soren :
Maybe you drives became incompatible. (It happened to me biggrin.gif )

Or simply one drive is dead and prevent the correct recognition of the other one while locking the bus.

I suggest you test each drive separately to be sure of that.

Besides, like Bidz I switched from VIA chipset do NForce2 and now I can live without headaches with my Audigy. For more than 2 years I had a Windows XP working fine with VIA and Audigy, but a fresh reinstall brought me a problem I couldn't solve anymore. sad.gif So I decided it was time to switch.

QUOTE (sven_Bent @ Mar 23 2004, 11:29 PM)
Vipes

VIA has around the worst implementation of the PCI bus..lacking many pause commands, that would otherwise make the AthlonXP (example) go more into halt mode and save power/heat)
However due to VIA's abd pci implementation this dos not occur as often as it should be.
SiS and AMD chipset does not have the problem...


Still not always true, I have also that problem with NForce 2, I have to use CPUIdle to cool since I can't use VCool anymore. (that was a really great program, but for VIA only crying.gif ).
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ddrawley
post Mar 24 2004, 17:35
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I do not know how it could be more clear.

QUOTE
Explanation: Over time, Hydrogenaudio has had some issues with rude, unfriendly, or otherwise inappropriate personal comments made by some users. This is unacceptable.


Perhaps classes on social interaction are needed as a starting point.

QUOTE
Please, get informed before claiming something you obviously have no clue about.


Please be clear, I agree that the person is incorrect on a technical basis. Perhaps something like 'It is generally accepted that software will not cause hardware to fail. Please research your idea before posting a claim like this.' A baseball bat to the head is rarely necessary as a first step. I for one found your statement to be rude.
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rjamorim
post Mar 24 2004, 17:43
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QUOTE (ddrawley @ Mar 24 2004, 01:35 PM)
Please be clear, I agree that the person is incorrect on a technical basis. Perhaps something like 'It is generally accepted that software will not cause hardware to fail. Please research your idea before posting a claim like this.'

That's funny, I don't see you trying to defend people that are bludgeoned in this very forum for coming up with gems like "Blade 128 quality beats Lame --aps lol". Why do you try to defed someone that comes with the same kind of statement - a serious statement that could affect several people in this forum, and without proof?

QUOTE
I for one found your statement to be rude.


So sue me.


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ddrawley
post Mar 24 2004, 17:47
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Perhaps I singled you out since you are such a snappy dresser.

Actually, I chose to point this out because I believe forum admins and moderators have a greater responsibility to keep to the TOS. Leading by example is important.
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rjamorim
post Mar 24 2004, 17:49
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QUOTE (ddrawley @ Mar 24 2004, 01:47 PM)
Leading by example is important.

I guess you chose the wrong example, smart guy happy.gif


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ddrawley
post Mar 24 2004, 17:54
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Your response is exactly what I am referring to.

QUOTE
I guess you chose the wrong example, smart guy 


I have seen you contribute a great deal to these forums. It would be a shame to see that tarnished with an immature attitude. Your posting numbers speak for themselves.

rjamorim Members 29-September 01 4856
Pio2001 Super Moderator 29-September 01 2645
JohnV Admin 22-September 01 2643
Dibrom Admin 25-August 02 2553


It would be nice to see that number of posts put to good use.
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rjamorim
post Mar 24 2004, 17:57
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QUOTE (ddrawley @ Mar 24 2004, 01:54 PM)
I have seen you contribute a great deal to these forums. It would be a shame to see that tarnished with an immature attitude. Your posting numbers speak for themselves.

Oh, I didn't mean I am a bad example because I'm "untouchable" or anything. I have already been warned before, actually.

I said chosing that post I made was a bad example. Saying the guy is lacking clue might be offensive, but if the truth hurts...

There is a plethora of posts I made that could be used to "make an example". Like the one I called Frank Klemm an ass, for example.

But, IMO, the post I did in this thread is not flaming him or trolling or anything like that.


Edit: BTW, I don't plan to change my behaviour because I have a big post count. I have already seen people point at me that, because I have a big post count, I am seen as some sort of role model (?) and should stick to being nice and agreeable. Well, it isn't a post count that will make me change my personality.

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zgx
post Mar 24 2004, 18:32
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Back in 1998 the "W95/CIH" virus aka Chernobyl (http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_10300.htm) erased the BIOS on my motherboard. Furtunately the BIOS was on a socket and could be removed and re-programmed offline using an EEPROM programmer. Some people that got the virus had BIOS soldered to the motherboard had to replace the hole board with a new one.

This is the only case I know of when software actually destroyed hardware.
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F1Sushi
post Mar 24 2004, 18:38
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ Mar 23 2004, 10:13 PM)

Frankly, I find your questionable use of power tools objectionable. DeWalt power tools are highly over-rated...
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rjamorim
post Mar 24 2004, 18:44
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QUOTE (F1Sushi @ Mar 24 2004, 02:38 PM)
Frankly, I find your questionable use of power tools objectionable. DeWalt power tools are highly over-rated...

laugh.gif

So, what would you recommend for the task at hand?


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