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Codec choice poll
Codec choice poll
Codec choice poll
MPC [ 218 ] ** [29.95%]
AAC [ 54 ] ** [7.42%]
MP3 (Lame) [ 209 ] ** [28.71%]
MP3 (Fhg) [ 5 ] ** [0.69%]
OGG Vorbis [ 167 ] ** [22.94%]
VQF [ 3 ] ** [0.41%]
WMA [ 3 ] ** [0.41%]
Lossless (APE, LPAC, CDDA) [ 69 ] ** [9.48%]
Total Votes: 905
  
ProtectYaNeck36
post Sep 28 2002, 08:33
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i voted lossless, waiting for sv8 to come out.
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Mac
post Sep 28 2002, 15:21
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QUOTE
That's easy  encode castanets.wav with AAC with archive quality and with MPC with --quality 7 or 8. I'm almost sure you'll notice the difference.


Hehe, I can see the difference between them. I followed ff123's guidlines on how to spot pre-echo (here) The MPC has very little pre-echo, and the AAC has it for the same length of time (3ms) but it's a lot louder.

No way could I hear the difference in them! So I made it a bit fairer on me and encoded them in -normal and what's it, -q5. AAC = 185kbs MPC = 193kbs

from ABCH :
CODE
ABC/HR Version 0.9b, 30 August 2002
Testname:

1L = C:\X_AUDIO\castanetsaac185.wav
2L = C:\X_AUDIO\castanetsmpc193.wav

---------------------------------------
General Comments:

---------------------------------------
1R File: C:\X_AUDIO\castanets.wav
1R Rating: 4.9
1R Comment: just a guess!
---------------------------------------
2L File: C:\X_AUDIO\castanetsmpc193.wav
2L Rating: 4.0
2L Comment: first 3 single castas sound a bit more reverbey?
---------------------------------------
ABX Results: (3.6 -> 6.3 seconds in the file, the reverb and guitar ending)
Original vs C:\X_AUDIO\castanetsaac185.wav
   4 out of 5, pval = 0.188
Original vs C:\X_AUDIO\castanetsmpc193.wav
   7 out of 11, pval = 0.274

ABX Results:  (0.8 -> 1.5 seconds, the 3/4 single casters)
Original vs C:\X_AUDIO\castanetsmpc193.wav
   5 out of 10, pval = 0.623
Original vs C:\X_AUDIO\castanetsaac185.wav
   3 out of 10, pval = 0.945

ABX Results:  (the whole file)
Original vs C:\X_AUDIO\castanetsmpc193.wav
   5 out of 10, pval = 0.623
Original vs C:\X_AUDIO\castanetsaac185.wav
   5 out of 10, pval = 0.623



Erm... well I think that proves conclusively I can't tell a difference! smile.gif


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David Nordin
post Oct 4 2002, 11:00
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lets not forget this thread smile.gif
cast your votes please smile.gif


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westgroveg
post Oct 4 2002, 11:09
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QUOTE (MTRH @ Oct 4 2002 - 10:00 PM)
lets not forget this thread smile.gif
cast your votes please smile.gif

I get "You have already voted in this poll" ??? I didn't vote yet.
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pantheranddawg
post Oct 4 2002, 11:46
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Any chance we could start a Codec Choice 2002 poll? I tried but don't have permission to start a poll huh.gif .

I suspect there are a few converts to Ogg since Vorbis 1.0's release and at least one member who has given up on MPC altogether! I'm pretty sure the VQF choice can be removed (that guy has surely moved on to mp3PRO...) but I'd leave WMA on just for a laugh.

Anyone else for a new poll?


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westgroveg
post Oct 4 2002, 14:08
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QUOTE (pantheranddawg @ Oct 4 2002 - 10:46 PM)
Any chance we could start a Codec Choice 2002 poll?  I tried but don't have permission to start a poll huh.gif .

I suspect there are a few converts to Ogg since Vorbis 1.0's release and at least one member who has given up on MPC altogether!  I'm pretty sure the VQF choice can be removed (that guy has surely moved on to mp3PRO...) but I'd leave WMA on just for a laugh.

Anyone else for a new poll?

I think they should also state the reason for choice, maybe what they would like added to the format, bitrate/profile. Add something diffrent otherwise it's just more of the same.
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nawhead
post Oct 4 2002, 16:05
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I've been playing around with Ogg Vorbis for the past couple days, and I have just become a huge fan of it. I had tried it pre-1.0 and I wasn't very impressed at all, but it seems there have been some great leaps and bounds in psychoacoustic tuning since then.

I'm just a guy who went from LAME 192S -> MPC -extreme -> MPC -standard -> LAME -aps -> Ogg Vorbis -q 4

(I think it's a logical progression from wanting to be a poseur computer audiophile to getting back to the basics of just listening to music for music's sake)

In just a few test encodings of a few albums, I have to say the Vorbis 1.0 encoder at just a 128kbps nominal bitrate is very damn close to LAME -aps of about 180-200kbps (though I seem to hear a slightly better stereo separation in Ogg). And with the default support of Ogg Vorbis decoding in the recent releases of Winamp, and the hopeful iRiver hardware support, it beats MPC in mass market penetration and acceptance.

I'm on the bandwagon! Woohoo! Go Ogg!
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Emmett_v2
post Oct 24 2002, 09:51
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Okay, folks... Last time.

Ogg is not a codec. Ogg is a multimedia framework in which you put things encoded with codecs. For example, you use Vorbis (a codec) to perform lossy compression on audio, and then you put that encoded data inside Ogg (the framework), and you get an 'Ogg Vorbis' file. Huzzah. Just repeat 'Ogg is not a codec' over and over to yourself when you go to sleep tonight. Think of 'Ogg' the same way you think of 'QuickTime,' and you'll start to understand a little bit of how it breaks down.

Let's say you have a collector's tin of Xiph.org commemorative action figures. There are a few action figures in the tin. One action figure is named 'Vorbis,' another one is named 'Speex,' and another one is named 'Theora.' The action figures go in the collector's tin. The tin is called 'Ogg.' It's a container. Like a box of girl scout cookies. Like an envelope from your Aunt Martha. Things go inside Ogg. Ogg is not a codec.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation
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qristus
post Oct 24 2002, 11:24
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QUOTE (Emmettfish @ Oct 24 2002 - 09:51 AM)
Think of 'Ogg' the same way you think of 'QuickTime,' and you'll start to understand a little bit of how it breaks down.

Is it just me or is this not the best way to promote Ogg? Every time I think of QuickTime I feel like gouging my eyes out with dull kitchen implements and carpet-bombing Apple HQ with books on good UI design rolleyes.gif
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Mac
post Oct 24 2002, 12:28
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I think after saying "I've been playing around with Ogg Vorbis v1.0" it's safe to say "Go Ogg" without that being interpreted as meaning "Go the possibility of MPC wrapped in an Ogg container"

Lol! Nitpicking puts me off tongue.gif


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Emmett_v2
post Oct 24 2002, 22:00
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Aww, I really didn't mean to nitpick. It's just important because Ogg is bigger than just 'a container for Vorbis.' It's kinda like defining 'The Beatles' by calling it 'Ringo's Band.'

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation
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JohnV
post Oct 24 2002, 22:27
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Well, imo the correct names should be used like Emmett said. It's especially important now that there starts to be more codecs in Ogg container besides Vorbis.

Probably all people writing in this thread knew the difference, but some still use the shorter "Ogg". People probably woudn't take it as nitpicking, if it is just said that it's important that the proper codec name should be used. I don't think people here used "ogg" because they didn't know better..
However, even if it was understandable (although wrong) before, today "ogg" shouldn't be used anymore when talking about Vorbis..


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Mac
post Oct 24 2002, 23:27
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I'll sit quietly feeling belittled now smile.gif

Am I right in thinking it would be the same mistake as saying I listen to MP4 audio.. as it's really AAC converted to the MP4 headers, but you can stuff things like videos, images & mp3's in there?


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rjamorim
post Oct 24 2002, 23:52
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QUOTE (Mac @ Oct 24 2002 - 07:27 PM)
Am I right in thinking it would be the same mistake as saying I listen to MP4 audio.. as it's really AAC converted to the MP4 headers, but you can stuff things like videos, images & mp3's in there?

MP4 audio can be AAC (in all it's innumerable forms), TwinVQ, CELP, MP1, MP2, MP3, SA... smile.gif


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p0wder
post Oct 25 2002, 04:33
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ Oct 24 2002 - 02:52 PM)
QUOTE (Mac @ Oct 24 2002 - 07:27 PM)
Am I right in thinking it would be the same mistake as saying I listen to MP4 audio.. as it's really AAC converted to the MP4 headers, but you can stuff things like videos, images & mp3's in there?

MP4 audio can be AAC (in all it's innumerable forms), TwinVQ, CELP, MP1, MP2, MP3, SA... smile.gif

So how do you know exactly what's inside the container?
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rjamorim
post Oct 25 2002, 05:22
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QUOTE (p0wder @ Oct 25 2002 - 12:33 AM)
So how do you know exactly what's inside the container?

One way would be using MP4creator, by MPEG4ip. (available at RareWares)

mp4creator -list filename.mp4

The output is detailed information on the streams contained in that MP4 file.


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ChristianHJW
post Oct 25 2002, 08:17
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roberto, are you sure about MP2 and MP1 being in MPEG4 specs for MP4 container ? First time i hear ....


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p0wder
post Oct 25 2002, 10:05
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We should start this poll over again. I voted for Ogg Vorbis but have switched to Musepack. smile.gif
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Andavari
post Oct 25 2002, 11:14
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Although I voted for MPC I am still using Lame MP3, OGG, and MPC.

In fact I just finished encoding all of my CD's and there is roughly a 33% split between the formats; 33% mpc, 33% ogg, and 33% Lame mp3.


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holkie
post Oct 25 2002, 11:54
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1. lossless is lossles and NOTHING better can be achieved...
2.HD, memory, network speed are getting bigger and wider...

Why trying to achieve something that will be very soon obsolet?

Go lossless and don't bother!!!

ps: what was the size of your HD the first time you started to store MP3???
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GeSomeone
post Oct 25 2002, 21:26
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QUOTE (holkie @ Oct 25 2002 - 12:54 PM)
ps: what was the size of your HD the first time you started to store MP3???

too small smile.gif
If I would switch to lossless I would have that same problem again dry.gif
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ChrisGranger
post Apr 1 2003, 13:12
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I voted for MPC myself. I agree with the concept of moving towards lossless though. I started encoding MP3s when I had a 2.1GB hard drive. Now that I have 40GB I still have feelings of 'I must keep the bitrate low to save space' even though I have enough free drive space. tongue.gif Anyone else feel like this? How do I overcome this? Hehe... rolleyes.gif Small Bit-raters Anonymous?

"Hi, I'm Chris and I encode at 128kbps." laugh.gif
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Ivan Dimkovic
post Apr 1 2003, 13:45
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QUOTE (ChristianHJW @ Oct 25 2002 - 07:17 AM)
roberto, are you sure about MP2 and MP1 being in MPEG4 specs for MP4 container ? First time i hear ....

Audio Track types in MP4 file:

/* MP4 Audio track types - see MP4AddAudioTrack()*/
#define MP4_INVALID_AUDIO_TYPE 0x00
#define MP4_MPEG1_AUDIO_TYPE 0x6B
#define MP4_MPEG2_AUDIO_TYPE 0x69
#define MP4_MP3_AUDIO_TYPE MP4_MPEG2_AUDIO_TYPE
#define MP4_MPEG2_AAC_MAIN_AUDIO_TYPE 0x66
#define MP4_MPEG2_AAC_LC_AUDIO_TYPE 0x67
#define MP4_MPEG2_AAC_SSR_AUDIO_TYPE 0x68
#define MP4_MPEG2_AAC_AUDIO_TYPE MP4_MPEG2_AAC_MAIN_AUDIO_TYPE
#define MP4_MPEG4_AUDIO_TYPE 0x40
#define MP4_PRIVATE_AUDIO_TYPE 0xC0



/* MP4 MPEG-4 Audio types from 14496-3 Table 1.5.1 */
#define MP4_MPEG4_INVALID_AUDIO_TYPE 0
#define MP4_MPEG4_AAC_MAIN_AUDIO_TYPE 1
#define MP4_MPEG4_AAC_LC_AUDIO_TYPE 2
#define MP4_MPEG4_AAC_SSR_AUDIO_TYPE 3
#define MP4_MPEG4_AAC_LTP_AUDIO_TYPE 4
#define MP4_MPEG4_AAC_SCALABLE_AUDIO_TYPE 6
#define MP4_MPEG4_CELP_AUDIO_TYPE 8
#define MP4_MPEG4_HVXC_AUDIO_TYPE 9
#define MP4_MPEG4_TTSI_AUDIO_TYPE 12
#define MP4_MPEG4_MAIN_SYNTHETIC_AUDIO_TYPE 13
#define MP4_MPEG4_WAVETABLE_AUDIO_TYPE 14
#define MP4_MPEG4_MIDI_AUDIO_TYPE 15
#define MP4_MPEG4_ALGORITHMIC_FX_AUDIO_TYPE 16


/* MP4 Video track types */
#define MP4_INVALID_VIDEO_TYPE 0x00
#define MP4_MPEG1_VIDEO_TYPE 0x6A
#define MP4_MPEG2_SIMPLE_VIDEO_TYPE 0x60
#define MP4_MPEG2_MAIN_VIDEO_TYPE 0x61
#define MP4_MPEG2_SNR_VIDEO_TYPE 0x62
#define MP4_MPEG2_SPATIAL_VIDEO_TYPE 0x63
#define MP4_MPEG2_HIGH_VIDEO_TYPE 0x64
#define MP4_MPEG2_442_VIDEO_TYPE 0x65
#define MP4_MPEG2_VIDEO_TYPE MP4_MPEG2_MAIN_VIDEO_TYPE
#define MP4_MPEG4_VIDEO_TYPE 0x20
#define MP4_JPEG_VIDEO_TYPE 0x6C
#define MP4_PRIVATE_VIDEO_TYPE 0xD0

(JPEG2000, H.264 should also be here)
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AJUK
post Jun 8 2003, 14:26
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Why couldent i vote other?
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AJUK
post Jun 8 2003, 16:43
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What is MPC??
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