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AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion
rjamorim
post Feb 8 2004, 00:59
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Hello.

I'm creating this thread so that we can discuss how the upcoming AAC @ 128kbps listening test will be handled.

The encoders I plan to feature are:

-Nero AAC encoder VBR profile Streaming :: Medium (@Ivan: Fast or HQ mode?)
-Apple iTunes 4.2 128kbps
-FAAC "whatever VBR setting comes close to 128kbps"
-Compaact! "same thing as above"
-Winamp AAC encoder 128kbps
-FhG l3enc 1.0 as anchor biggrin.gif

Some codecs that might be considered to replace another:
-Real Producer
-NCTU AAC
-Emuzed
-Imagine Technology


I am personally very fond of the idea of using l3enc as anchor. It'll be a good insight on how perceptual audio coding developed since the first MP3 implementation. It'll be like "the oldest vs. the newest".

Of course, as usual, EVERYTHING is still open to discussion. Remember I am conducing these tests for you, not for me, so please make your opinions heard.

Actually, only one thing is not open for discussion: the amount of codecs. There won't be more than 6 (including anchor), no matter what.

Some other topics I want to discuss:

-Samples tested. IMO we should definitely replace some samples. Specifically Polonaise (I would suggest Fossiles as replacement) and Illinois (I would replace it with our old friend Fatboy). Do you believe something else should be replaced?

I wouldn't like to replace Waiting. I love that sample for it's wacky behaviour, so I want to force you guys to listen to it over and over again until your ears pop out of your skull :B


-Should only LC be tested? Or maybe test other (better?) profiles when the encoder supports them, like FAAC and Compaact. I think an argument for this would be that it's like VBR vs. CBR - you shouldn't penalize some codecs because others lack that feature. A very good argument against this would be that LC is waaaay more supported now and probably in the future. Opinions?


-Do you think there is any need for encryption (it will definitely be used on the Multiformat tests)? If so, we'll only use Schnofler's comparator, since ff123's doesn't support encryption.


These are the subjects I can think about ATM. I'll post more ideas/questions as I come up with them.

Thanks for your help.

Best regards;

Roberto.

This post has been edited by rjamorim: Feb 8 2004, 01:18


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Dologan
post Feb 8 2004, 07:05
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I support Roberto's initial codec choices fully, including l3enc as lower anchor.
More than six codecs is absolutely insane and those that ask for it have probably never participated fully in one of Roberto's tests, or have an unhealthy amount of free time and patience.
None of the other choices IMO merits the place of any of the initially chosen contestants, since they are either 1) In beta or not-quite-final state 2) not really popular or relevant enough.
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Posts in this topic
- rjamorim   AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion   Feb 8 2004, 00:59
- - Bonzi   Well, isn't winamp AAC practically the same th...   Feb 8 2004, 01:12
- - schnofler   QUOTE (rjamorim)Well, I am personally very fond of...   Feb 8 2004, 01:18
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Bonzi @ Feb 7 2004, 10:12 PM)It would ...   Feb 8 2004, 01:19
- - sony666   6 encoders is the absolute maximum imho, I'd r...   Feb 8 2004, 01:23
- - guest0101   I would like to see you keep the WinAmp encoder du...   Feb 8 2004, 01:24
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (sony666 @ Feb 7 2004, 10:23 PM)6 encod...   Feb 8 2004, 01:25
- - harashin   How about VQF as anchor? According to AudioCodingW...   Feb 8 2004, 01:25
- - Cygnus X1   Re: the profile issue: I'd say just stick with...   Feb 8 2004, 01:30
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (harashin @ Feb 7 2004, 10:25 PM)How ab...   Feb 8 2004, 01:31
- - sony666   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 8 2004, 01:25 AM)QUOTE ...   Feb 8 2004, 01:39
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (sony666 @ Feb 7 2004, 10:39 PM)but I p...   Feb 8 2004, 01:41
- - harashin   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 8 2004, 09:31 AM)Actual...   Feb 8 2004, 01:45
- - sony666   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 8 2004, 01:41 AM)<sc...   Feb 8 2004, 01:59
- - bond   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 8 2004, 12:59 AM)Actual...   Feb 8 2004, 02:10
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (bond @ Feb 7 2004, 11:10 PM)dont get t...   Feb 8 2004, 02:16
- - bond   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 8 2004, 02:16 AM)I gues...   Feb 8 2004, 02:24
- - karl_lillevold   QUOTE (bond @ Feb 7 2004, 05:24 PM)i also don...   Feb 8 2004, 02:49
- - ssjkakaroto   e ai Roberto would it make any sense using LAME ...   Feb 8 2004, 03:12
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (karl_lillevold @ Feb 7 2004, 11:49 PM)...   Feb 8 2004, 03:37
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (ssjkakaroto @ Feb 8 2004, 12:12 AM)wou...   Feb 8 2004, 03:39
- - kwanbis   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 8 2004, 02:39 AM)QUOTE ...   Feb 8 2004, 04:19
- - guest0101   Well I think Apple iTunes (Quicktime 6.5) and Nero...   Feb 8 2004, 04:20
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (kwanbis @ Feb 8 2004, 01:19 AM)well .....   Feb 8 2004, 04:33
- - bidz   No more than 6 codecs, as 6 is already enough. I a...   Feb 8 2004, 04:34
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (guest0101 @ Feb 8 2004, 01:20 AM)Nero ...   Feb 8 2004, 04:36
- - kwanbis   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 8 2004, 03:33 AM)QUOTE ...   Feb 8 2004, 04:36
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (kwanbis @ Feb 8 2004, 01:36 AM)it sure...   Feb 8 2004, 04:42
- - guest0101   I really like you original choices for the 5 AAC e...   Feb 8 2004, 04:58
- - westgroveg   What about FhG AAC ? I'm sure we can get perm...   Feb 8 2004, 05:11
- - MGuti   nero is very important i would like to see real as...   Feb 8 2004, 05:16
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (westgroveg @ Feb 8 2004, 02:11 AM)What...   Feb 8 2004, 05:21
- - Dologan   I support Roberto's initial codec choices full...   Feb 8 2004, 07:05
- - schnofler   I also think Roberto's choice of codecs is nic...   Feb 8 2004, 12:49
- - Gabriel   About the anchor: I would very much like to see L...   Feb 8 2004, 13:42
- - bond   doesnt faac maybe do well as "anchor" (m...   Feb 8 2004, 13:45
- - kl33per   Obviously both the Apple and Nero codecs should be...   Feb 8 2004, 13:53
- - dev0   QUOTE (bond @ Feb 8 2004, 01:45 PM)doesnt faa...   Feb 8 2004, 14:06
- - Gabriel   QUOTE Gabriel's idea of including LAME seems v...   Feb 8 2004, 14:09
- - ErikS   1. Who uses Compaact? What's the reason behind...   Feb 8 2004, 14:41
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (ErikS @ Feb 8 2004, 11:41 AM)2. Please...   Feb 8 2004, 14:58
- - Alexander Lerch   Hi, you all know I am biased. That said, I would ...   Feb 8 2004, 15:01
- - Sebastian Mares   Well, I think the following codecs should be inclu...   Feb 8 2004, 15:18
- - Latexxx   NeroiTunesRealFAACCompaactAnchor   Feb 8 2004, 15:22
- - knik   QUOTE (rjamorim)I am personally very fond of the i...   Feb 8 2004, 15:31
- - MGuti   since this will be a 128 test HE for nero won...   Feb 8 2004, 16:40
- - dev0   I'm completely opposed to including NCTU, unti...   Feb 8 2004, 16:48
- - magic75   QUOTE (kwanbis @ Feb 7 2004, 07:36 PM)QUOTE (...   Feb 8 2004, 16:57
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (dev0 @ Feb 8 2004, 01:48 PM)I'm co...   Feb 8 2004, 17:07
- - Tomb   This may seem a stupid question but does the Quick...   Feb 8 2004, 17:27
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Tomb @ Feb 8 2004, 02:27 PM)This may s...   Feb 8 2004, 17:42
- - mmortal03   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 7 2004, 09:39 PM)QUOTE ...   Feb 8 2004, 18:19
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (mmortal03 @ Feb 8 2004, 03:19 PM)I dou...   Feb 8 2004, 18:22
- - knik   So, if Roberto doesn't want to include LAME he...   Feb 8 2004, 18:26
- - emtee   @rjamorim: Maybe you should start a poll to decid...   Feb 8 2004, 18:26
- - mmortal03   I re-read some of the posts, and I have changed my...   Feb 8 2004, 18:30
- - knik   QUOTE (mmortal03 @ Feb 8 2004, 08:30 PM)I wou...   Feb 8 2004, 18:34
- - mmortal03   Gotcha, you want to know how LAME does in comparis...   Feb 8 2004, 18:36
- - Continuum   QUOTE (knik @ Feb 8 2004, 06:26 PM)So, if Rob...   Feb 8 2004, 18:40
- - knik   QUOTE (mmortal03 @ Feb 8 2004, 08:30 PM)QUOTE...   Feb 8 2004, 18:55
- - bidz   QUOTE (knik @ Feb 8 2004, 09:34 AM)QUOTE (mmo...   Feb 8 2004, 18:56
- - MGuti   IMO, this is a test to determine the best AAC code...   Feb 8 2004, 19:11
- - SirGrey   I also like the idea to use l3enc as an anchor, bu...   Feb 8 2004, 20:35
- - rjamorim   Well, the anchor rating isn't supposed to be u...   Feb 8 2004, 21:44
- - kwanbis   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 8 2004, 08:44 PM)Well, ...   Feb 8 2004, 22:23
- - schnofler   QUOTE (knik)So, if Roberto doesn't want to inc...   Feb 8 2004, 22:48
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (kwanbis @ Feb 8 2004, 07:23 PM)EDIT: t...   Feb 8 2004, 22:56
- - QuantumKnot   I second the idea of using Xing (ver 1.5) as an an...   Feb 9 2004, 01:27
- - kwanbis   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 8 2004, 09:56 PM)QUOTE ...   Feb 9 2004, 02:21
- - rjamorim   Well, I see there is too much discussion about wha...   Feb 9 2004, 02:54
- - paradynamic   Why not use Fhg AAC encoder (Sorenson?) for low an...   Feb 9 2004, 03:10
- - quackquack   I think Compaact is essential as right now it is t...   Feb 9 2004, 03:18
- - kwanbis   only question is ... haw -APS would compare agains...   Feb 9 2004, 03:25
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (paradynamic @ Feb 9 2004, 12:10 AM)Why...   Feb 9 2004, 03:37
- - ff123   Probably the choice of anchor could be a separate ...   Feb 9 2004, 04:05
- - AtaqueEG   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 8 2004, 07:54 PM)Well, ...   Feb 9 2004, 04:07
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (AtaqueEG @ Feb 9 2004, 01:07 AM)Let ev...   Feb 9 2004, 04:10
- - AtaqueEG   Hmm? Two separate polls? Monday through wednesday,...   Feb 9 2004, 04:14
- - ssjkakaroto   that's a good idea, having a separate poll for...   Feb 9 2004, 04:22
- - MGuti   go for the polls separated by time. please just p...   Feb 9 2004, 04:37
- - eagleray   My vote is to use the old FAAC as the anchor. Aft...   Feb 9 2004, 04:44
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (MGuti @ Feb 9 2004, 01:37 AM)go for th...   Feb 9 2004, 04:50
- - Canar   What about the Homeboy AAC encoder as an anchor? W...   Feb 9 2004, 06:18
- - Ivan Dimkovic   Regarding Nero AAC - Fast mode shouldn't be us...   Feb 9 2004, 09:17
- - knik   QUOTE (Continuum @ Feb 8 2004, 08:40 PM)Besid...   Feb 9 2004, 09:36
- - menno   EDIT: Winamp problem is a decoder-only problem. No...   Feb 9 2004, 09:47
- - eltoder   If everyone knows that NCTU-AAC sucks badly may be...   Feb 9 2004, 10:19
- - plonk420   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 7 2004, 05:31 PM)QUOTE ...   Feb 9 2004, 13:33
- - danchr   QUOTE (menno @ Feb 9 2004, 09:47 AM)Besides t...   Feb 9 2004, 13:53
- - knik   QUOTE (schnofler @ Feb 8 2004, 10:48 PM)But i...   Feb 9 2004, 14:00
- - rjamorim   @ Menno: Thanks for bringing this issue to our att...   Feb 9 2004, 14:57
- - askoff   rjamorim: Are you going to use VBR streaming profi...   Feb 9 2004, 15:51
- - tigre   QUOTE (askoff @ Feb 9 2004, 04:51 PM)I think ...   Feb 9 2004, 16:46
- - ff123   QUOTE (tigre @ Feb 9 2004, 07:46 AM)QUOTE (as...   Feb 9 2004, 17:22
- - Latexxx   Evil Psytel as anchor.   Feb 9 2004, 17:25
- - rjamorim   OK, now a fucker decided to mess my poll. My pati...   Feb 9 2004, 20:02
- - Alexander Lerch   It may sound a bit unfair to newer members, but to...   Feb 9 2004, 20:06
- - menno   *deleted*   Feb 9 2004, 20:07
- - JohnV   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 9 2004, 09:02 PM)-The t...   Feb 9 2004, 20:10
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Alexander Lerch @ Feb 9 2004, 05:06 PM...   Feb 9 2004, 20:12
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