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-V n (in 3.95.1), Presets, bitrates and lowpass of V value
Vietwoojagig
post Jan 29 2004, 11:38
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Hi,
CODE
Switch            equals               target  Y  b  lowpass resample
-V 0            = --preset extreme       240     128  19500
-V 0 --vbr-new  = --preset fast extreme  240     128  19500
-V 1                                     210     128  19000
-V 1 --vbr-new                           210     128  19000
-V 2            = --preset standard      190     128  19000
-V 2 --vbr-new  = --preset fast standard    190     128  19000
-V 3                                     175   1      18000
-V 3 --vbr-new                           175   1      18000
-V 4            = --preset medium        165   1      18000
-V 4 --vbr-new  = --preset fast medium   165   1      18000
-V 5                                     130   1      17000
-V 5 --vbr-new                           130   1      17000
-V 6                                     115   1      16000
-V 6 --vbr-new                           115   1      16000
-V 7                                     100   1      14900   32000
-V 7 --vbr-new                           100   1      14900   32000
-V 8                                      85   1      12500   32000
-V 8 - vbr-new                            85   1      12500   32000
-V 9                                      65   1      10000   24000
-V 9 - vbr-new                            65   1      10000   24000


Questions:
1. Is it save to use the -V switches, with no corresponding preset (especially V 1 / V3)?
2. When is it more usefull, to use abr rather than -V n (e.g. --preset 120 better than -V 5)?
3. Are the displayed target average bitrates ok (+/- 10 kbps)?

Thanks

Edit: changed with Gabriel's suggestions. Added:-Y, -b, --lowpass, --resample
Edit: modified -b to fit with 3.96
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ThyBzi
post Dec 1 2006, 18:49
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QUOTE
Do you have foobar2000 installed on your system with the ABX component?

No, I downloaded foobar2000, but didn't find any ABX component for it (using search on its site). Is abchr I downloaded a little earlier worse for some reason?

By the way, using abchr, I couldn't hear those artifacts I see... It was only one test as now, but maybe the sample I used wasn't suitable. I'll try another samples and/or another sound system (and/or someone else's ears smile.gif).

I also tried to mix paste (thanx Pepoluan and Greynol for that idea smile.gif) samples using Adobe Audition, but it was too difficult to guess how great is the "lossy offset", mentioned by Greynol. Simple comparison of files' lenght did not help me. Is there any bright idea how to find out that lossy offset?

As I see, EAC can determine the offset generated by specific codec, but this operation returns an error for some reason (I tried to determine offset for GoGo and two different LAMEs). What can be a reason? I didn't find anything about it at EAC website's FAQ.

And some more questions about notorious spectral analysis. smile.gif)

1) for two same-sounding (for me smile.gif) samples, is the one with "nicer" spectre (i.e. most bordering upon original) a better one (concerning quality)? Or it is no judge of quality even for same-sounding samples?

2) For two samples encoded using the same original, do same-looking graphs signify the same quality? (of course, accurate within my eyes smile.gif)

And more questions... (It would be great grateful (edited smile.gif) if the LAME developer will answer smile.gif)
1) Why qval=3 is now default (at least, when using -V2 --vbr-new)? As I remember it was qval=2 in older LAME versions...
2) What is --vbr-new?
3) Are there any differences between two spellings: -V 2 (readme file provided with LAME 3.97) and -V2 (found here, on hydrogenaudio.org)?
4) Please tell me, does -k really "destroy the quality of files" (like Firon said)? Almost any LAMEs mp3 graph remains same-looking when using this key, and the only difference is lowpass-filter-collapse dissapperance. Or that means nothing again?..

QUOTE (Firon @ Nov 30 2006, 08:27) *
Also, M/S stereo will make things sound WORSE. Leave it as joint stereo (it is NOT lossy in LAME).

But isn't JS (when using at LAME, on high bitrates) mostly M/S stereo? Or your mean forced M/S, without using L/R Stereo when it's needed?

This post has been edited by ThyBzi: Dec 1 2006, 19:43
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greynol
post Dec 1 2006, 20:03
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QUOTE (ThyBzi @ Dec 1 2006, 09:49) *
I downloaded foobar2000, but didn't find any ABX component for it (using search on its site).
It is included as part of the installation. I don't remember if it gets selected by default.

QUOTE (ThyBzi @ Dec 1 2006, 09:49) *
Is abchr I downloaded a little earlier worse for some reason?
From what I understand, this test is designed so that people could rank different files rather than determine whether they could tell the difference between two files.

QUOTE (ThyBzi @ Dec 1 2006, 09:49) *
By the way, using abchr, I couldn't hear those artifacts I see... It was only one test as now, but maybe the sample I used wasn't suitable.
It sounds like abchr was able to accomplish the same thing as abx from the point of view that you realized that you couldn't tell the difference.

QUOTE (ThyBzi @ Dec 1 2006, 09:49) *
I also tried to mix paste (thanx Pepoluan and Greynol for that idea smile.gif) samples using Adobe Audition, but it was too difficult to guess how great is the "lossy offset", mentioned by Greynol. Simple comparison of files' lenght did not help me. Is there any bright idea how to find out that lossy offset?
You need to switch to Multitrack View and load the two files one under the other, zoom in to a portion of the audio that you can easily distinguish. Drag one of the files so they line up to the precise sample and then lock them. Right click on one file and choose edit. Then select the entire track. Switch back to multitrack view again. Right click on the other file and choose edit. Copy what is currently selected. Switch back to multitrack view. Right click on the first file again. Use the mix-paste function and check that you want to invert both channels.

QUOTE (ThyBzi @ Dec 1 2006, 09:49) *
As I see, EAC can determine the offset generated by specific codec, but this operation returns an error for some reason (I tried to determine offset for GoGo and two different LAMEs). What can be a reason?
It's a pretty outdated and IMO useless feature. Anyway, I wouldn't bother with this at the moment.

QUOTE (ThyBzi @ Dec 1 2006, 09:49) *
1) for two same-sounding (for me smile.gif) samples, is the one with "nicer" spectre (i.e. most bordering upon original) a better one (concerning quality)? Or it is no judge of quality even for same-sounding samples?
What you hear is all that matters. It is nice to see what lossy codecs throw out but please give up on this method of determining quality.

QUOTE (ThyBzi @ Dec 1 2006, 09:49) *
2) For two samples encoded using the same original, do same-looking graphs signify the same quality? (of course, accurate within my eyes smile.gif)
Please give up on this method of determing quality.


--------------------
Your eyes cannot hear.
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Posts in this topic
- Vietwoojagig   -V n (in 3.95.1)   Jan 29 2004, 11:38
- - Gabriel   Nice layout. QUOTE 3. Are the displayed target av...   Jan 29 2004, 12:11
|- - moi   QUOTE (Gabriel @ Jan 29 2004, 03:11 AM)Nice l...   Feb 26 2005, 21:06
|- - Jojo   QUOTE (moi @ Feb 26 2005, 12:06 PM)To get the...   Feb 27 2005, 00:40
|- - Dologan   QUOTE (Jojo @ Feb 26 2005, 05:40 PM)use LAME ...   Mar 6 2005, 20:19
- - Dologan   Is --r3mix still remapped to -V3 --vbr-new in 3.96...   May 5 2004, 00:35
- - Gabriel   QUOTE Is --r3mix still remapped to -V3 --vbr-new i...   May 5 2004, 08:53
- - Schinkentoni   I just want to pick up the first question of Vietw...   May 5 2004, 10:05
|- - 384kbps   QUOTE (Schinkentoni @ May 5 2004, 10:05 AM)I ...   Aug 25 2004, 19:58
- - 2Bdecided   The word you're looking for is safe, not save...   May 5 2004, 11:02
- - Vietwoojagig   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ May 5 2004, 11:02 AM)The w...   May 5 2004, 11:42
- - Halcyon   Vietwoojagig, don't worry. It's just a si...   May 5 2004, 14:15
- - Dologan   QUOTE (Gabriel @ May 5 2004, 01:53 AM)QUOTE ...   May 5 2004, 15:22
- - Vietwoojagig   QUOTE (Dologan @ May 5 2004, 03:22 PM)Well, c...   May 5 2004, 15:41
- - Dologan   QUOTE (Vietwoojagig @ May 5 2004, 08:41 AM)On...   May 5 2004, 16:19
- - Vietwoojagig   QUOTE (Dologan @ May 5 2004, 04:19 PM) From w...   May 5 2004, 16:24
- - Tomb   QUOTE (Halcyon @ May 5 2004, 01:15 PM)PS It...   May 5 2004, 16:33
- - Dologan   QUOTE (Vietwoojagig @ May 5 2004, 09:24 AM)QU...   May 5 2004, 17:07
- - Gabriel   QUOTE Gabriel, could you please confirm this? Yes   May 5 2004, 17:38
- - Jebus   Wow, that is really interesting. So the --r3mix tu...   May 5 2004, 19:16
|- - GeSomeone   QUOTE (Jebus @ May 5 2004, 07:16 PM)So the --...   Aug 26 2004, 12:26
- - Squeller   QUOTE (Vietwoojagig @ Jan 29 2004, 02:38 AM)2...   May 24 2004, 12:02
- - shafff   -V2 (lame 3.95.1) gives me 141kbps on film track (...   Jun 24 2004, 18:56
- - westgroveg   Does LAME 3.96, -V2/--preset standard still use -b...   Jul 4 2004, 02:20
- - Vietwoojagig   QUOTE (westgroveg @ Jul 4 2004, 02:20 AM)Does...   Jul 7 2004, 10:29
- - Gabriel   Regarding "target bitrates" related to -...   Aug 4 2004, 08:43
- - Gabriel   -V1 is between -V0 and -V2. I do not know what to ...   Aug 26 2004, 08:30
- - Pio2001   ...so -V1 includes the alt-preset code level tunin...   Aug 26 2004, 11:11
|- - 384kbps   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Aug 26 2004, 11:11 AM)...so ...   Sep 1 2004, 06:45
|- - LoFiYo   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Aug 26 2004, 06:11 AM)...so ...   Sep 30 2004, 04:15
- - Gabriel   QUOTE (LoFiYo @ Sep 30 2004, 05:15 AM)I thoug...   Sep 30 2004, 11:22
- - detokaal   Would it be possible to add the -q switch to the t...   Oct 18 2004, 21:30
- - Gabriel   QUOTE I believe --preset standard is -q 2 whereas ...   Oct 19 2004, 09:56
- - detokaal   Rather than ask again - I just checked myself. --...   Oct 19 2004, 22:02
|- - freakngoat   QUOTE (detokaal @ Oct 19 2004, 09:02 PM)Rathe...   Oct 19 2004, 22:19
- - Gabriel   Yes, changing -V is (generally) a better idea than...   Oct 20 2004, 08:45
- - ezra2323   After reading through this thread, I'm still u...   Dec 15 2004, 03:51
|- - dev0   QUOTE (ezra2323 @ Dec 15 2004, 03:51 AM)After...   Dec 15 2004, 06:12
||- - k.eight.a   QUOTE (Vietwoojagig @ Jan 29 2004, 02:38 AM)2...   Dec 15 2004, 18:32
|- - whcanilang   QUOTE (ezra2323 @ Dec 14 2004, 10:51 PM)After...   Dec 22 2004, 21:16
||- - music_man_mpc   QUOTE (whcanilang @ Dec 22 2004, 12:16 PM)Whe...   Dec 22 2004, 21:42
|- - esa372   QUOTE (ezra2323 @ Dec 14 2004, 07:51 PM)Is 3....   Jan 19 2005, 18:23
- - Gabriel   QUOTE I just noticed that http://lame.sourceforge....   Dec 23 2004, 09:16
- - veikko   Hi. I just registered myself for the first time e...   Feb 9 2005, 23:25
|- - schonenberg   QUOTE (veikko @ Feb 9 2005, 04:25 PM)Hi. I j...   Apr 5 2005, 08:38
||- - guruboolez   QUOTE (schonenberg @ Apr 5 2005, 08:38 AM)Lam...   Apr 5 2005, 08:48
|- - Madrigal   QUOTE (veikko @ Feb 9 2005, 05:25 PM)Hi. I j...   Apr 5 2005, 13:46
- - Gabriel   A bug regarding -q0 and -q1 has been recently iden...   Feb 9 2005, 23:34
- - kwanbis   Garbiel would this fix be backported to 3.96.x?   Feb 10 2005, 00:30
- - Gabriel   Probably not as we are not working on 3.96 anymore...   Feb 10 2005, 09:51
- - JEN   my hearing is either getting really bad (i'm 2...   Mar 6 2005, 20:02
- - TheStonepedo   I fail to understand the b value of 128 on -V 0. ...   May 20 2005, 04:42
|- - Jojo   QUOTE (TheStonepedo @ May 19 2005, 07:42 PM)I...   May 20 2005, 17:20
|- - =trott=   QUOTE (TheStonepedo @ May 19 2005, 07:42 PM)I...   Jun 23 2005, 12:02
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE (=trott= @ Jun 23 2005, 12:02 PM)you ha...   Jun 23 2005, 12:22
- - tycho   I believe the -b 32 will override the default (128...   May 20 2005, 07:36
- - latuman   Hi! I'm new to this forum. I registered b...   Nov 16 2005, 12:20
|- - Alex B   QUOTE (latuman @ Nov 16 2005, 01:20 PM)-V6 --...   Nov 16 2005, 13:05
- - latuman   I might be a bit thick, but whats the point using ...   Nov 16 2005, 17:27
|- - Gambit   QUOTE (latuman @ Nov 16 2005, 06:27 PM)I migh...   Nov 17 2005, 00:22
|- - Alex B   QUOTE (latuman @ Nov 16 2005, 06:27 PM)I migh...   Nov 17 2005, 01:16
- - latuman   So I shall leave that setting alone for portable u...   Nov 17 2005, 10:54
- - DickxLaurent   Is there an updated copy of the chart in the first...   Jun 19 2006, 03:44
|- - pika2000   QUOTE (DickxLaurent @ Jun 18 2006, 19:44)...   Jun 19 2006, 06:59
- - Alex B   I have posted an updated table here: http://www.hy...   Jun 19 2006, 04:42
|- - DickxLaurent   QUOTE (Alex B @ Jun 18 2006, 22:42) I hav...   Jun 19 2006, 05:19
- - Jojo   the minimum bitrate should be removed from the cha...   Jun 20 2006, 20:21
- - ThyBzi   Sorry for possible offtopic. I just found this top...   Nov 29 2006, 20:36
- - jmartis   Spertrograms are no judge of sound quality. Use an...   Nov 29 2006, 21:25
- - Firon   -k will absolutely destroy the quality of the file...   Nov 30 2006, 03:27
|- - ThyBzi   QUOTE (Firon @ Nov 30 2006, 08:27) Settin...   Dec 4 2006, 08:44
|- - greynol   QUOTE (ThyBzi @ Dec 3 2006, 23:44) Hmm......   Dec 4 2006, 08:49
- - greynol   -m s isn't such a bright idea either. Never...   Nov 30 2006, 03:29
- - ThyBzi   Thanx for your support, people But, as far as I ...   Nov 30 2006, 19:22
|- - greynol   QUOTE (ThyBzi @ Nov 30 2006, 10:22) Are t...   Nov 30 2006, 19:49
|- - pepoluan   QUOTE (ThyBzi @ Dec 1 2006, 01:22) Thanx ...   Nov 30 2006, 20:28
- - halb27   To me the main problem is that you seem to think i...   Nov 30 2006, 19:45
- - ThyBzi   "(The mere fact that Joint Stereo is used in ...   Nov 30 2006, 20:31
|- - pepoluan   QUOTE (ThyBzi @ Dec 1 2006, 02:31) ...   Nov 30 2006, 20:40
|- - greynol   QUOTE (ThyBzi @ Nov 30 2006, 11:31) Or di...   Nov 30 2006, 20:58
- - ThyBzi   QUOTE Do you have foobar2000 installed on your sys...   Dec 1 2006, 18:49
|- - greynol   QUOTE (ThyBzi @ Dec 1 2006, 09:49) I down...   Dec 1 2006, 20:03
- - ThyBzi   Thanx a lot, you all just broke down my hasty and ...   Dec 2 2006, 12:09
- - dv1989   2) The new VBR method, faster and reputed several ...   Dec 2 2006, 12:23
- - robert   1 - because it makes no difference for VBR NEW, no...   Dec 2 2006, 12:33
|- - ThyBzi   Thanks Dv1989 and thanks Robert (an answer from LA...   Dec 2 2006, 13:04
|- - dv1989   QUOTE (ThyBzi @ Dec 2 2006, 12:04) But wh...   Dec 2 2006, 14:38
- - dv1989   Wow, LAME 3.98 should be interesting! Thanks ...   Dec 2 2006, 12:36
- - halb27   Before 3.97 development started --vbr-new wasn...   Dec 2 2006, 13:49
- - ThyBzi   Thanx for all! I'll try using -V2 --vbr-ne...   Dec 2 2006, 17:42
- - Firon   QUOTE You are partially wrong. In low-bitrate, Jo...   Dec 4 2006, 09:49
- - ThyBzi   Thanks again Now I see, LAME is even more clever ...   Dec 4 2006, 17:12


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