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R.I.P., The thread for dead CD-Rs
What brand of CD-R's have burnt fine but died after time without any physical damage (scratches etc.) or extreme exposure to sunlight, heat etc. ?
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westgroveg
post Jan 18 2004, 08:32
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CD-RW.org the best known place for discussing CD-R media brands has had very few users in the CD-R(W) media forum lately so I thought it would be a good idea to start a new, more accurate thread for dead CD-R media at HA whether it's a success will depend on the users.

If you have more than one brand feel free to post them all.

Use CDR Identifier or Nero Info Tool to identify the real CD-R manufacturer also specify the CD-R manufacturer on the case, box or spindle, drive used to burn, speed, color of the CD-R & burn date would also be useful

CD-R quality can be measured using,For those who want to know what are generally reliable brands to use here is my short summary which is based on the results found here, personal experience & these forums,Highest quality brands (*)Medium quality brands
  • Ricoh
  • RiTEK
  • SKC
  • TDK
  • Fornet
  • Prodisc
  • Mitsui Toatsu Chemicals
  • Moser Baer India
  • Multi Media Masters & Machinery
  • MPO
  • Kodak (!)
Low quality brands
  • Sony
  • Princo
  • Gigastorage
  • Plasmon
  • CMC Magnetics
  • AMS Technologies
  • Lead Data Inc
  • NAN-YA Electronics
(*) Gold will help prevent deterioration, look for gold CD-R's

(!) Tops are reported to peel with time

This list may change depending on future findings


DVD-R Armour is a solution for those who find DVD media too delicate (scratches easily), newer DVD-R Armour discs also provide extra UV protection.

The OSTA.org (Optical Storage Technology Association) site has some very useful information & can answer many of your CD-R questions.

This post has been edited by westgroveg: Jan 29 2005, 08:43
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JeanLuc
post Jan 24 2004, 11:03
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QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Jan 24 2004, 02:48 AM)
But in this case, how do you explain the Ricoh scan ? the C2 rate goes up to 6000 per second, which was not the case when it was burned, while the C1 rate is still zero in very large aeras (no C1 error in more than 10 minutes).

The Fnac gold scan from 2000 shows that it does not come from a mechanical defect of the burner that would give high error rates past 62 minutes. We would have seen a C1 increase near the end.
I think that there is definitely something attacking the CD from the outer edge, and, in a lesser extend, from the inner edge.

I sometimes experienced the same phenomenon, too ... and if these C2 errors haven't been there before (how could they ...), you surely are right about the process of media degradation (although I still believe that K-Probe does not work that accurate with a DVD-ROM). Some scans of mine show higher error rates at the start (no visible damage to the CD itself) so I can also confirm that some CD's are beginning to degrade from the inner edge ...

A well-manufactured piece of media should show a somewhat consistant (and low) error rate throughout the whole disc after writing (like my Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden scans show) and a non-matching or non-properly aligned write strategy should have a constant impact on error rates.

But what about tracking/focusing errors rising to the end? Nearly every piece of media (even highest quality E-Grade TY) shows higher deviations of FE/TE with Plextools Pro towards the end - a writer not being capable of following the track properly (or a writer not using a running OPC like modern drives do to adjust write speed and fine-tune laser power output) will surely induce a higher BLER towards the end - not even regarding the heat-up of the media during the burn process which (in my case) was some "problem" with the CRW6416S.

This leads to an increase of errors towards the outer edge of the CD and, in conjunction with media degradation (which is measureable and definitely takes place) will cause media failure.

The real problem is that we cannot know how the CD error rate relations (start/end - BLER) were right from the beginning (after the burn) since no comparable tests have been conducted (and no tools for the masses - except for early versions of Nero CD Speed - have been available) back then.

What makes me somewhat doubt that this is media-related only is the fact that I regularly bought CD's with a friend - we bought the same media (I grabbed two ten-packs, he grabbed two). My CD's all failed (using a highly acclaimed quality SCSI write device) whereas my friend can still read every single CD (he did use some questionable Mitsumi ATAPI 4x writer). blink.gif

IMO, the Yamaha CRW6416S was far from being crap, but support was not that strong from Yamaha's side - I would have e.g. wished some guidance in what media to buy.

In my opinion, the problems with older media that we face today are surely not entirely related to media degradation - high error rates after the burn on lower-quality media due to somewhat unlucky combinations of burner/media might introduce or accelerate the media degradation we encounter, disregarding the fact that we have been surely sold some media with badly-sealed edges (so any corrosive agent can diffuse into the CD between the reflective layer and the dye).

But MPO as a european quality manufacturer with lots of ISO 900x certificates shouldn't have produced such bad kind of media IMO ...

I'm glad that it is much harder to sell crap these days ... be it media or hardware ... thanks to communities like HA or CDFreaks, people can get well-informed before they actually buy.

This post has been edited by JeanLuc: Jan 24 2004, 11:11


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Posts in this topic
- westgroveg   R.I.P.   Jan 18 2004, 08:32
- - ViPER1313   I have ~2 year old Memorex (CMC) discs that have u...   Jan 18 2004, 08:39
- - AtaqueEG   I once did a --rather limited-- experiment, just f...   Jan 18 2004, 09:53
- - JeanLuc   /me is uploading some Plextools Pro scans now ...   Jan 18 2004, 10:00
- - JeanLuc   El-Cheapo deep-blue AZO CD-R disc (650 MB), dated ...   Jan 18 2004, 10:15
- - JeanLuc   Hehe ... Lead Data - AZO 97m26s50f - burned 10.1...   Jan 18 2004, 10:40
- - Gabriel   Fujfilm, but those ones were quite old (about 7 ye...   Jan 18 2004, 10:58
- - Sebastian Mares   QUOTE (Gabriel @ Jan 18 2004, 10:58 AM)Fujfil...   Jan 18 2004, 11:08
- - mai9   I won't buy Princo ever again, they are all dy...   Jan 18 2004, 12:24
- - stipe   GIGA-master. Burnt five of them. Not one of them w...   Jan 18 2004, 12:52
- - AndyMutz   years ago i burned a lot of PLATINUM CD-Rs. today ...   Jan 18 2004, 14:40
- - ssjkakaroto   i have some CD's that are so crappy that they ...   Jan 18 2004, 14:56
- - kotrtim   nan-ya the caoting peeled off   Jan 18 2004, 15:46
- - vinu   I've been using CD-R's for about five year...   Jan 18 2004, 16:12
- - odious malefactor   QUOTE (Sebastian Mares @ Jan 18 2004, 02:08 A...   Jan 18 2004, 19:28
- - Sebastian Mares   QUOTE (odious malefactor @ Jan 18 2004, 07:28...   Jan 18 2004, 20:08
- - M   FujiFilm discs labeled MADE IN JAPAN are manufactu...   Jan 18 2004, 20:36
- - JeanLuc   I've lost tons of early Ritek and CMC discs (l...   Jan 18 2004, 21:15
- - outscape   QUOTE (Sebastian Mares @ Jan 18 2004, 05:08 A...   Jan 18 2004, 22:02
- - harashin   IIRC, Fujifilm had made their own CD-Rs. (cyanine,...   Jan 18 2004, 22:12
- - outscape   QUOTE (harashin @ Jan 18 2004, 04:12 PM)IIRC,...   Jan 19 2004, 06:51
- - Gabriel   My dead Fujifilm cds are dark green made by Matsus...   Jan 19 2004, 08:55
- - 6545608403   9 Dead CMCs [sold as Memorex].   Jan 19 2004, 10:07
- - sven_Bent   1 dead pioner CD..it got fluid inside..wierd QUO...   Jan 19 2004, 10:14
- - ZYron   Hi, I lost some cheap Memorx and Prostore (Multi...   Jan 20 2004, 16:52
- - Artemis3   I have lots of "Benq", their Atip shows:...   Jan 20 2004, 18:07
- - Pio2001   I've just bought a Lite-On drive for CD scanni...   Jan 20 2004, 22:48
- - JeanLuc   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Jan 20 2004, 09:48 PM)I...   Jan 22 2004, 18:04
- - ViPER1313   This CD is a Memorex burned around 1.5 - 2 years a...   Jan 22 2004, 19:03
- - Xenion   tevion (from a weell known discount shop here) i...   Jan 23 2004, 01:01
- - Oge_user   2 Verbatim CD-RW Blue, bought in Jan 2001. Can...   Jan 23 2004, 12:49
- - Daffy   Pio2001, I would hate to breathe the air wherever ...   Jan 23 2004, 13:03
- - Pio2001   QUOTE (Daffy @ Jan 23 2004, 01:03 PM)Could it...   Jan 23 2004, 23:08
- - dreamliner77   A little off topic. I live in New England, and as...   Jan 23 2004, 23:29
- - JeanLuc   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Jan 23 2004, 10:08 PM)I suff...   Jan 24 2004, 00:35
- - Pio2001   But in this case, how do you explain the Ricoh sca...   Jan 24 2004, 03:48
- - JeanLuc   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Jan 24 2004, 02:48 AM)But in...   Jan 24 2004, 11:03
- - Pio2001   Good post, Jean-Luc !   Jan 24 2004, 21:06
- - mat128   Media Manf. : Multi Media Masters & Marhinary ...   Jan 26 2004, 04:16
- - JeanLuc   Guys, I'm down ... I recently (maybe 6-9 month...   Jan 28 2004, 21:04
- - de Mon   Can anybody test Verbatim Pastel made by Taiyo Yud...   Jan 28 2004, 22:41
- - de Mon   By the way. Can anybody explain me who paints CD-R...   Jan 28 2004, 22:44
- - budgie   Since 1999 only two Platinum (I have just a few of...   Jan 29 2004, 10:37
- - Pat-54   QUOTE (budgie @ Jan 29 2004, 01:37 AM)As I ha...   Feb 21 2004, 19:16
- - music_man_mpc   QUOTE (Pat-54 @ Feb 21 2004, 10:16 AM)I ...   Feb 21 2004, 21:51
- - grbmusic   I have 400 CD-Rs and only died 3 since 1995, the 3...   Feb 21 2004, 22:47
- - Pat-54   QUOTE (music_man_mpc @ Feb 21 2004, 12:51 PM)...   Feb 22 2004, 00:05
- - Dr. TaaDow   hmm... what all programs can u use to test cdr...   Feb 24 2004, 14:35
- - germanjulian   jeanLuc I think you have a dodgy cdr writter. I w...   Feb 24 2004, 17:47
- - Dimension   The only CD-R's I've ever had die were in ...   Mar 7 2004, 11:34
- - Teej a.k.a T-Dj   Alright, I've read the topic, but still a bit ...   Mar 9 2004, 02:39
- - eagleray   I am not sure what to make of this. CMC Magnetics...   Mar 9 2004, 02:56
- - odious malefactor   QUOTE (Teej a.k.a T-Dj @ Mar 8 2004, 05:...   Mar 9 2004, 17:47
- - Teej a.k.a T-Dj   QUOTE (odious malefactor @ Mar 9 2004, 08:47 ...   Mar 14 2004, 19:32
- - odious malefactor   QUOTE Great, thanks! Now to find a store that ...   Mar 14 2004, 21:21
- - Teej a.k.a T-Dj   QUOTE (odious malefactor @ Mar 14 2004, 12:21...   Mar 15 2004, 00:55
- - chis   Anyone else ever buy some "That's Write...   Apr 2 2004, 17:33
- - Cutter   Green Memorexes.   Apr 5 2004, 18:58
- - dreamliner77   ^^ Let Me guess... CMC's?   Apr 5 2004, 19:27
- - Teej a.k.a T-Dj   Just thought I'd add that I checked the Maxell...   Apr 11 2004, 16:57
- - shafff   phillips (i payed for it $1.40*5.3)   Apr 11 2004, 17:21
- - JeanLuc   QUOTE (Teej a.k.a T-Dj @ Apr 11 2004, 03...   Apr 11 2004, 19:40
- - dreamliner77   just picked up some Memorex's from compusa tha...   Apr 11 2004, 21:50
- - Teej a.k.a T-Dj   QUOTE (JeanLuc @ Apr 11 2004, 10:40 AM)QUOTE ...   Apr 12 2004, 03:04
- - classj   A box of Lead Data (cyanine) discs sold as Memorex...   Apr 19 2004, 10:38
- - user   Do we have already a thread for bad DVD+/-R (RW) ...   Apr 20 2004, 13:25
- - westgroveg   QUOTE (user @ Apr 21 2004, 12:25 AM)Do we hav...   Jun 27 2004, 04:12
- - DreamTactix291   I guess I've just been fortunate. Most of my ...   Jun 27 2004, 04:31
- - user   I solved the riddle easily, why my first Platinum ...   Jun 27 2004, 11:39
- - CiTay   QUOTE (user @ Jun 27 2004, 11:39 AM)Those pic...   Jun 27 2004, 13:13
- - Bslazh   Hi! I have KProbe tested 15 cd-r's burned...   Jun 27 2004, 21:15
- - westgroveg   QUOTE The conclusion about KProbe is that it's...   Jun 29 2004, 03:07
- - CiTay   QUOTE (westgroveg @ Jun 29 2004, 03:07 AM)Can...   Jun 29 2004, 14:30
- - PrinceTone   Anybody try MMobile Fidelity Sound Lab's new U...   Jun 30 2004, 16:21
- - westgroveg   I have some interesting results of CD-R's dati...   Jul 6 2004, 02:28
- - westgroveg   These are the oldest in my collection of CD-R...   Jul 6 2004, 04:29
- - Pio2001   I've always got much better (though not prerfe...   Jul 6 2004, 11:33
- - user   yes, if they really use Gold particles/surface for...   Jul 6 2004, 17:17
- - be020261   Mitsumi. I've burn on many media, but these m...   Jul 6 2004, 18:30
- - JeanLuc   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Jul 6 2004, 10:33 AM)I'v...   Jul 6 2004, 18:52
- - Pio2001   From http://www.roxio.com/en/support/discs/cdrmfg....   Jul 6 2004, 21:28
- - JeanLuc   I was just asking, because silver sulfide (Ag2S) w...   Jul 23 2004, 05:31
- - kotrtim   ITS TIME TO UPDATE THE LIST checking back cd-rs bu...   Jul 26 2004, 14:54
- - GoaTrancer   One cheaper class Maxell died on me a few days aft...   Jul 29 2004, 16:50
- - sergelac   Sony should be in Highest quality brands not Low q...   Sep 24 2004, 04:32
- - Ashed   What about black CD-R's? Are they better than ...   Sep 24 2004, 04:41
|- - Pio2001   QUOTE (Ashed @ Sep 24 2004, 05:41 AM)What abo...   Sep 24 2004, 11:27
- - dreamliner77   QUOTE (sergelac @ Sep 23 2004, 11:32 PM)Sony ...   Sep 24 2004, 06:32
- - kotrtim   QUOTE (sergelac @ Sep 23 2004, 07:32 PM)Sony ...   Sep 24 2004, 08:02
- - Pio2001   It depends if they are Datalife Plus Super Azo or ...   Sep 24 2004, 11:24
- - sergelac   What about panasonic and verbatim dvd-ram are they...   Sep 26 2004, 20:26
|- - weaker   Hi, after I occasionally found this thread, I deci...   Sep 28 2004, 17:09
|- - JeanLuc   QUOTE (weaker @ Sep 28 2004, 04:09 PM)Those A...   Oct 12 2004, 16:47
- - GeSomeone   Another (near) dead CD-R, it contained an Audio-CD...   Oct 5 2004, 21:38
- - cerberus   Ty are the best for me and play in "any...   Oct 7 2004, 15:04
- - Halcyon   If you have failed discs that have also changed lo...   Oct 8 2004, 10:17
- - Halcyon   On a more positive note: I just scanned a batch o...   Oct 14 2004, 18:03
|- - westgroveg   QUOTE (Halcyon @ Oct 15 2004, 05:03 AM)On a m...   Oct 14 2004, 22:52
- - alfa156   never again princo   Mar 10 2005, 18:36
- - Jojo   QUOTE (alfa156 @ Mar 10 2005, 09:36 AM)never ...   Mar 10 2005, 19:31
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