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DVD to WMV9 with WMA9Pro 5.1 Multichannel Audio, A Guide based on Experience
~*McoreD*~
post Jan 10 2004, 16:19
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Guys,

I am not worried about any open or closed formats -- al least not yet.
All I need is to encode the DVD the to Windows Media Video, so that I can play it in Windows Media Player. All my needs are satisfied and I have no restrictions in any form, during that procedure and that's why I was pleased to share my experience here.

Bond, you can call me "weird" then. laugh.gif

Honestly, I am not paid by Microsoft. I am just a WM enthusiastic just like all of you. I have seen plenty guides written for DVD > DivX, so I thought I might try something different with 5.1 Audio and continued developing the DVD > WMV9 Guide (at Doom9, you know that Bond don't you mate?).

So why is this all criticism or sarcasm or whatever you call it -- I dunno. sad.gif

This post has been edited by ~*McoreD*~: Jan 10 2004, 16:22
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bond
post Jan 10 2004, 16:22
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sorry i didnt mean to critice or so, just wondered...

but if you like wm, i (of course) have nothing against it

simply enjoy what you like best smile.gif


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~*McoreD*~
post Jan 10 2004, 16:30
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Thank you bond for the concluding post smile.gif

Now for others, please enjoy what I have shared here or just click Back and rest in peace. biggrin.gif

McoreD

This post has been edited by ~*McoreD*~: Jan 10 2004, 16:32
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rjamorim
post Jan 10 2004, 16:58
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QUOTE (kl33per @ Dec 28 2003, 04:45 AM)
QUOTE
It is also impossible to encode wma pro at such low bitrates.

Sorry, I wasn't aware of this limitation. I don't use WMA9Pro (or Std. for that matter).

Hehe. Video moderators trying to discuss audio... rolleyes.gif

Yes, you can encode WMA Pro at low bitrates. Just use VBR quality 10.


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Latexxx
post Jan 10 2004, 20:55
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jan 10 2004, 05:58 PM)
QUOTE (kl33per @ Dec 28 2003, 04:45 AM)
QUOTE
It is also impossible to encode wma pro at such low bitrates.

Sorry, I wasn't aware of this limitation. I don't use WMA9Pro (or Std. for that matter).

Hehe. Video moderators trying to discuss audio... rolleyes.gif

Yes, you can encode WMA Pro at low bitrates. Just use VBR quality 10.

Hey! We are audio/video moderators.
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Latexxx
post Jan 11 2004, 19:30
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McoreD,
Your wmv9 guide is pretty complete now but I believe that it would be even better if you would put the whole guide into one page. It would also be nice if you would remove the information which is proven to be false. (like wma being 3 times better than mp3 at same bitrate http://membres.lycos.fr/guruboolez/AUDIO/t...al_results.html Hey! Lame abr 128 won wma9 abr 128)
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~*McoreD*~
post Jan 11 2004, 19:36
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Thank you Latexxx, smile.gif

Sure I will do those modifications. About that "wma being 3 times better than mp3 at same bitrate", I really forgot to remove it before publishing. biggrin.gif
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rjamorim
post Jan 11 2004, 22:47
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QUOTE (Latexxx @ Jan 10 2004, 05:55 PM)
Hey! We are audio/video moderators.

The audio in the title alone isn't helping much biggrin.gif


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ezra2323
post Jan 11 2004, 23:47
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Someone posts a nice guide for everyone and all people can do is bash him. Give him a break!

McoreD, ignore all the OGGies here. If you post anything that does not proclaim that ogg vorbis will bring 1000 years of peace on earth, you will get flamed here. Especially if you do anything involving WMA.

Thanks for the guide but your link is broken. How can we obtain your guide now?
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~*McoreD*~
post Jan 12 2004, 02:48
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Hi there,

I was wondering where it said WMA sounded 2-3 times better than MP3. Later I saw it in the Introduction\Why Windows Media?.
The article "Why Windows Media" was originally written by Zarax.
Therefore, unfortunately I can't do much about it. Home I removed it saying 2-3 times better because I myself believe it doesn't go upto 3 times better (may at 9kbps or lower). Definetely it is hard tell when the bit rate is more than 192 Kbps in both MP3 and WMA9.

Sorry ezra2323, I forgot to update the link. It is working now. smile.gif

I could have made it in one page. Because I am in dialup, I was thinking about dialup people like me. biggrin.gif



McoreD

This post has been edited by ~*McoreD*~: Jan 12 2004, 02:54
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lexor
post Jan 13 2004, 01:47
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hmm... something been bothering me for a while now. it was said in this thread and over at Doom9 that WM9Series are optimized for low bitrates. since when? if it is then why is T2 and several other moview were release in that format? I mean it it's not optimized for high bitrates how come T2 DVD2 had the whole movie and extras and no probs fitting both? and it ain't no Dual Layer or some other tweak like that.

what's going on?


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OceanStateScooby
post Jan 13 2004, 02:20
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QUOTE (Liquid_Predator @ Dec 30 2003, 11:57 AM)
QUOTE (bond @ Dec 30 2003, 05:36 AM)
~*McoreD*~

great guide!
as you seem to support wm9 so much, i wanted to ask you if you are somehow affiliated with microsoft?

That is not necessary true. WM9 is indeed a very good codec and is the only that gives nice quality for 1CD-rips (IMHO). Although I do not recommend using 5.1 sound for 1CD-rips.

The product Dr. DivX is a similar all-in-one product that makes fitting a whole DVD movie onto a CD with great video and audio. I have been having great results with the latest version, 1.0.4.
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Latexxx
post Jan 13 2004, 16:38
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QUOTE (OceanStateScooby @ Jan 13 2004, 03:20 AM)
QUOTE (Liquid_Predator @ Dec 30 2003, 11:57 AM)
QUOTE (bond @ Dec 30 2003, 05:36 AM)
~*McoreD*~

great guide!
as you seem to support wm9 so much, i wanted to ask you if you are somehow affiliated with microsoft?

That is not necessary true. WM9 is indeed a very good codec and is the only that gives nice quality for 1CD-rips (IMHO). Although I do not recommend using 5.1 sound for 1CD-rips.

The product Dr. DivX is a similar all-in-one product that makes fitting a whole DVD movie onto a CD with great video and audio. I have been having great results with the latest version, 1.0.4.

ohmy.gif blink.gif
I am tempted to remove this post... wink.gif Go to doom9.org learn how to get even more quality using Xvid or more control using Divx + GordianKnot.
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bond
post Jan 13 2004, 19:07
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i would prefer nero digital (recode2) over dr.divx would prefer over wmencoder

QUOTE
it was said in this thread and over at Doom9 that WM9Series are optimized for low bitrates

i think you can use wmv9 for all bitrates but on all bitrates it has competitors that can bring better quality (imho)

vp6 or rv9/10 for low bitrates
xvid (divx5) on medium (1cd) bitrates
xvid, 3ivx, divx5, nero digital on high bitrates


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Guest_sramov_*
post Jan 13 2004, 21:09
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Mcore, thank you for this nice guide, I'll try it as soon as I get some time.
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Simba7
post Jan 27 2004, 04:42
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Thanks ~*McoreD*~ for updating what I had on this board. That info was quite old.

I gotta admit, WMV9 and WMA9Pro make one killer combination. I usually encode my movies using 128kbit 5.1channel 16bit WM9Pro audio and 700kbps WMV9 Video (2-Pass VBR of course).

As for lowering the resolution, why would you do something like that? I prefer to keep the 720x??? resolution and keep it the way the original was.

rjamorim does have a point, though. Everyone so far says that you need a high bitrate for audio. I can understand this for music files, but it's a movie. There will probably be some silence and "soft" spots. Why would you need high bitrate for this? Use VBR.

..and ~*McoreD*~, there is a flaw in the script. When you do 2-Pass Bit Rate VBR, when it starts on the second pass it bombs out. It was saying that the file changed from the original. I would suggest doing a "Lossless" file, then encoding the file to whatever bitrate you want. I'm still using WinDVD 5 (with the registry mod) and having it decode the audio for 5.1ch. It works great here.

If you want the link to my mod of the original script (v1.0), here it is:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....ndpost&p=175523

This post has been edited by Simba7: Jan 27 2004, 05:04
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~*McoreD*~
post Jan 27 2004, 05:49
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Yes that's true Simba. Using VBR indeed does the trick. Since its peak bitrate is unconstrained, the bitrate goes up to as much as 384 kbps whenever it is needed. So using a bit rate like 192 kbps would do no harm. I am not sure about 128 kbps, though. To be honest, I haven't done any rips using 128 kbps.

I agree with you about the lowering resolution. I am the same -- I encoder my movies in 720 * 576 if there are no black parts.

Which script does have the flow? You mean the script I am using in this guide? Well, I have done 17 DVDs so far and didn't get any problems yet. There should be definitely something wrong with DirectShow filters or settings. There is a KB article in the site on how to fix DS problems. If you don't mind, I will try to contact you in MSN.

There is more, currently I am testing on converting DVD to WMV9 using only Windows Media Encoder. It does require very clean DirectShow filter configurations. I myself didn't achieve any success until today. You will see that guide in the main page too.

Cheers,
McoreD
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Simba7
post Jan 27 2004, 06:06
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Ooops. I goofed up.. I forgot to add a step (and a whole lot of other changes).

----====----====----====----====----====----====----====----====----
Use Windows Media 9 then. I've had the best luck out of that package and it shrinks it down to the size of a standard CD-R, and you get 5.1ch audio with it. This is what I usually use.

Software needed:
WinDVD 4 (or 5) (for audio codec)
SmartRipper 2.41
DVD2AVI 1.76
VFAPICodecV105EN (VFAPI Reader)
Windows Media Encoder 9

0. Audio codec setup
Open REGEDIT, and add key (or change if already exist)
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\InterVideo\Common\AudioDec]
"Audio"=dword:00000005

1. Ripping
Open SmartRipper, select the VIDEO and the AUDIO areas. Make sure you seperate the files (you should get 2 files, an AC3 and an M2V). This will take 10-15 minutes. Close it.

2. Converting to AVI and AC3
Start DVD2AVI, go FILE/OPEN and select the M2V file. Select VIDEO/CROP, and find out how much you have to crop from top and bottom (usualy 72 or 80 pixels). Deselect CROP because we will use WME9 for croping, not DVD2AVI. This step is required becuase it`s hard to find out how much croping is needed in WME9(no real time preview in WME9). Go FILE/SAVE_PROJECT to save d2v file to disk. It will take some 20 minutes. You can also press F5 for preview to see if source is interlaced or not (it`s usually not). Close it.
Open VFAPIConv, ADDJOB, select D2V file, and press run. It take some 30 sec to create AVI file. Close it.

3. Converting

*** Part 1 ***
Open Windows Media Encoder 9. Close wizard (we wont use it). Go to Properties (from main toolbar).
*Click on the "Sources" tab
Set NAME (optional, doesn`t really have any function)
Source from -> set to BOTH DEVICE AND FILE
Select VIDEO, from drop down menu -> BROWSE_FOR_FILE, and select AVI file
Select AUDIO, from drop down menu -> BROWSE_FOR_FILE, and select AC3 file
*Click on the "Output" tab
Deselect PULL FROM ENCODER and set ARCHIVE TO FILE, press BROWSE and set the temporary file's name
*Click on the "Compression" tab
Press "Destination".. Select "File Archive"
Make sure "Audio" is set to "Lossless Quality Audio (VBR 100)"
Make sure "Video" is set to "Highest Quality Video (VBR 100)"
Press the "EDIT" button
Click on the "Quality-Based" tab
Select "VBR Quality 100, 48 kHz, 5.1 Channel 24 bit VBR"
Frame Rate should be "23.976" [For Film]
Set "Key Frame Interval" to around 1 (or the default)
Deselect "Same As Video Input"
Enter proper size.. ex. Widescreen = (720/2.35=306.. 720x306), Fullscreen = 640x480
Press the "OK" button
*Click on the "Video Size" tab
Set "Crop Method" to CUSTOM, and put TOP and BOTTOM values we found out in DVD2AVI (usually 72 or 80).
Set PIXEL ASPECT RATIO to CUSTOM, and put some values like 17:12 to get OUTPUT ASPECT RATIO of original movie like 2.25:1 or similar (see DVD box)
Encode the file.. Click on "Start Encoding"

*** Part 2 ***
*Click on the "Sources" tab
Source from -> FILE
Select the "WMV Lossless" file you just created.
*Click on the "Output" tab
Deselect "Pull From Encoder" and select "Archive To File"
Click on the "BROWSE" button and set the final file's name (ex. The Lion King [Special Edition].wmv)
*Click on the "Compression"
Press the "EDIT" button
Select AUDIO
Select "Windows Media Audio 9 Professional"
Select VIDEO
Select "Windows Media Video 9"
Make sure both are set to "Bit Rate VBR" (or "Bit Rate VBR Peak")
Click on the "xxx kbps" tab
Select your bitrate "128 kbps, 48 kHz, 5.1 Channel 24 bit VBR" (or whatever you feel safe with)
Set "Key Frame Interval" to around 10
Set "Decoder Complexity" to "Complex"
Video Bit Rate (Average) should be somewhere between "500k" or "1100k"
Click "Ok"
Make sure "Two Pass Encoding" is checked.
Set DECODER COMPLEXITY to COMPLEX (not sure about this)
Press "Ok"
*Click on the "Attributes" tab
Set NAME and other stuff here (optional)
Press APPLY and close Properties.
Press START ENCODING.
OPTIONAL:
Go to sleep.
After around 10-20 hours, close WME9 (depending on your processor).
----====----====----====----====----====----====----====----====----

If anyone finds any errors, please fix them for me.

This post has been edited by Simba7: Jan 27 2004, 06:52
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~*McoreD*~
post Jan 27 2004, 09:51
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Hi Simba7,

There is nothing wrong I could find your method except for it takes a bit too long. smile.gif
  • You should be able to get rid of Part 1
  • Some have reported that if you use AC3 directly in WME it gives you 4.1 instead of 5.1 -- according to the original author: Bulma in 2002
However, If you want to do this in a much more simple way Then:
have a look at this KB: http://members.iinet.net.au/~malith/kb-vobtowmv.htm
By using AC3Filter you can get WME to detect the all the 6 channels of the AC3 file. With a good DirectShow filter configuration I also managed to open the VOB without crashing WME.

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Simba7
post Feb 4 2004, 20:36
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I am having trouble doing it that way, McoreD.. I'm compressing the following:

Pentium 4 2.4GHz Processor
512mb of RAM
60gb HD
WinDVD 5.3 (Platinum Edition)
AC3Filter

One problem I'm seeing (I've done it this way before) is that it skips frames like mad. I was making a backup of American Wedding and it skipped all over. It went from the Universal Logo to where he gave her the ring (which is like a 4-5min jump). I was like "WTF?"

I might end up reverting to v1.0 (or 2.0) of the guide.

EDIT: I found the problem. WinDVD 5.3 Platinum Edition was fscking things up. Use the Elecard MPEG2 Player. It fixes the jump problems.

Also, I noticed the audio was quite LOW when I played it back. How do you keep the audio level in AC3Filter? I used the suggested settings and I could barely hear it. I'm trying the WinDVD audio for now with the registry edit (I AM getting 6ch audio with it).

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~*McoreD*~
post Feb 5 2004, 01:01
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Hi Simba7,

I just want to share this info with others too. Writing this as we speak in MSN...

Though I have mentioned about encoding DVDs from VOB to WMV method it is not the most successful method for me either. So far only the AviSynth method worked perfectly for any DVD.

There are lots of issues when using VOB to WMV method. The process is entirely depended on what Audio/Video decoders you have installed. In contrast, in AviSynth method, the VOB files are filtered through the Windows Default AVI Compressor and the 6 WAV files are filtered through the Windows Default Wave Parser. So you never get into problems.

Back to VOB to WMV method:
Till we get around with a perfect Audio Decoder and Video Decoder (atm Elecard may be) I guess it is better for me to stick with the AviSynth method.

AviSynth method is actually taking less time than making WM9LL and then re-encoding them, if you think about it.
(Times in a 3.00 GHz)
  • DVD2AVI - making AC3 file and d2v file -- around 5 minutes
  • BeSweet - creating 6 WAV files from AC3 -- around 8 minutes
  • AvsScriptGen -- creating the script file -- around 1 minute
  • WME9 -- encoding the video -- around 2.5 hours (150 minutes) for WM8, around 8 hours (4800 minutes for WMV9)
So for it takes me about 14 ~ 16 mts for settings things up before I get to encoding.
IMO encoding the DVD to WM9LL and then re-encoding to WMV9 is a bit overkill. You replace the first three steps (I listed above) with WM9LL. But it takes at least 2 hours or more (according to you.) But I believe that this method is more successful than trying to directly encoding in WME9. So it is a very good work-around. I will be testing your method in the near future. smile.gif

Yes the sound level in AC3 Filter is too low, I was noticing that. Thanks for confirming it.

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Latexxx
post Feb 5 2004, 17:20
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QUOTE (~*McoreD*~ @ Feb 5 2004, 02:01 AM)
  • DVD2AVI - making AC3 file and d2v file -- around 5 mts

  • BeSweet - creating 6 WAV files from AC3 -- around 8 mts

  • AvsScriptGen -- creating the script file -- around 1 mt

  • WME9 -- encoding the video -- around 2.5 hours (150 mts) for WM8, around 8 hours (48for WMV9

WTF is mts? If you mean minutes, the correct short form is min, no plural form, no t. How on earth didn't you learn this in school?

http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/outside.html
http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/checklist.html
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~*McoreD*~
post Feb 6 2004, 01:14
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Yes I remember min is the symbol for minutes . Thanks for reminding me Latexxx.
For some reason I have got this habit to use mts as the shortened form for minutes (unintentionally though).
I hope the rest is understandable. smile.gif

I will change it to min to avoid further confusion.

@Simba7,
I added your guide here: DVD to WMV9 with WMA9 Professional 5.1 Channel Audio using WM9LL --- by Simba7
If you got more ideas please tell me.

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Simba7
post Feb 11 2004, 08:12
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Roger that. I'll keep ya informed. cool.gif
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t.g.deck
post Feb 11 2004, 09:02
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Myself, I'm an XviD nerd; but from time to time I do my own comparisons with DivX, RV9, VP or even WMV, just to make sure that my preferred solution still is competitive. Perhaps you'd like to do that, too and let us know your impressions. Especially WMA against HE AAC in multichannel encoding would interest us on this board.

Edit: The still image you attached is quite blocky and I wonder what high-motion scenes look like. Perhaps you should not insist on doing 720x-resolutions.

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