IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Suggest ~160kbps VBR setting.
guidryp
post Mar 30 2002, 19:27
Post #1





Group: Members
Posts: 30
Joined: 30-March 02
Member No.: 1649



Hi,

Looking at the suggested settings/presets I am dismayed at the lack of a VBR setting that operates at a lower bit-rate.

There is APS standard, which on my music easily averages over 200Kbps. In fact my latest Rush albums are averaging over 220Kbps.

I can see noisy metal taking over 220kbps, but a song like Rush-Nobody's Hero taking 230Kbps?

For me, it calls into question the validity of the VBR model if the answer to lower than 230KBps encoding is to use the ABR/CBR settings.

ABR doesn't seem much better than CBR after watching it encode 90+ % of its samples at the target rate.

Surely a VBR setting can be cooked up that can encode the above track at ~160kbps in VBR and still sound better than 160 ABR.

PS - I want to use this setting in my compact Flash based portable, in my car etc. My max space average is 160Kbps do to the size of the portable memory. But I want the best quality in that space.

Peter
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
mithrandir
post Mar 31 2002, 21:02
Post #2





Group: Members
Posts: 669
Joined: 15-January 02
From: SE Pennsylvania
Member No.: 1032



QUOTE
Originally posted by guidryp
The problem I have with ABR, is that it looks like a marketers attempt at VBR. It varies frames a bit, but it appears like it is not enough to be significant.

Philosophically VBR should deliver the best bang for the bit, so I get stuck on that. Even a low tweaked VBR will still use a number of 320kbps frames that I don't see from ABR 160. When watching them each encode. So it seems that VBR is spending more heavily on the difficult sections. I guess it would be annoying to me that ABR 160 would still use 160 kbps to record silence.

You appear to more concerned with what you see on the console output rather than what you hear. It is not acceptable, for instance, to say that one encode is better than another because it has twice as many 320kbps frames. If both files are the same size, then the one with more 320kbps frames is making compromises in other frames. Which is better? You really can't say unless you rate each file in a blind test.

You say ABR appears not to vary frames enough to be significant, but that is just an unproven hypothesis unless you have real listening test results that validate it. You would benefit from some blind listening tests so that you can remove any hint of subjectivity and pre-determined notions from your decision-making. I'd like to make two WAV files of Nobody's Hero: one decoded from a 160kbps ABR MP3 and another decoded from a 160kbps VBR MP3. You wouldn't know which is which and would have to say what you thought of each. THAT'S where you want to take this: forget about what you "feel" about ABR, the proof is in the pudding. If you think a 160kbps VBR file sounds better than a 160kbps ABR in such a test, then that's the encoder method for you in this case. But until you perform such a test, you shouldn't claim ABR is somehow flawed for various gut-feeling reasons while people here are telling you objective reasons why VBR can falter at lower bitrates and why ABR is the better choice.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- guidryp   Suggest ~160kbps VBR setting.   Mar 30 2002, 19:27
- - SometimesWarrior   Take a look at this thread for some info on how to...   Mar 30 2002, 21:06
- - Negative Zero   You could also try the --r3mix switch, which resul...   Mar 30 2002, 21:51
- - JohnV   QUOTE Originally posted by Negative Zero You coul...   Mar 31 2002, 01:53
- - mithrandir   Why are there still so many --r3mix followers? It ...   Mar 31 2002, 02:57
- - guidryp   QUOTE Originally posted by mithrandir Although I...   Mar 31 2002, 05:59
- - mithrandir   I say alt-preset extreme -Y creates files with a r...   Mar 31 2002, 08:11
- - JohnV   QUOTE Originally posted by guidryp I am seeking a...   Mar 31 2002, 12:12
- - guidryp   QUOTE Originally posted by mithrandir If you nee...   Mar 31 2002, 18:16
- - guidryp   QUOTE Originally posted by JohnV Well, I don't kn...   Mar 31 2002, 18:55
- - mithrandir   QUOTE Originally posted by guidryp The problem I ...   Mar 31 2002, 21:02
- - JohnV   Yes, VBR would use more bits for harder sections, ...   Mar 31 2002, 21:05
- - guidryp   QUOTE Originally posted by mithrandir make two ...   Mar 31 2002, 22:03
- - guidryp   QUOTE Originally posted by JohnV Yes, VBR would u...   Mar 31 2002, 22:21
- - JohnV   QUOTE Originally posted by guidryp Rush == Metal?...   Mar 31 2002, 22:49
- - guidryp   Well after a bit of testing, I am going with: --a...   Apr 2 2002, 05:36
- - Dibrom   QUOTE Originally posted by guidryp Well after a b...   Apr 2 2002, 10:03
- - guidryp   For whatever reason, I remember --lowpass 16 using...   Apr 2 2002, 14:24
- - JohnV   QUOTE Originally posted by guidryp For whatever r...   Apr 2 2002, 14:35
- - guidryp   QUOTE Originally posted by JohnV Seems that you d...   Apr 2 2002, 15:02
- - indybrett   Thought I might try this for myself. Without goin...   Apr 2 2002, 15:34
- - JohnV   QUOTE Originally posted by guidryp I had read th...   Apr 2 2002, 16:48
- - fewtch   Just my opinion, but if you're gonna do an abrupt ...   Apr 2 2002, 17:05
- - guidryp   QUOTE Originally posted by fewtch Just my opinion...   Apr 2 2002, 17:19
- - scoper   Reading the suggestions of Dibrom and others regar...   Apr 2 2002, 17:25
- - guidryp   QUOTE Originally posted by JohnV Still I think ...   Apr 2 2002, 17:26
- - Dibrom   QUOTE Originally posted by scoper Reading the sug...   Apr 2 2002, 22:12
- - pacohaas   I ripped some complete albums and did some encodin...   Apr 3 2002, 04:25
- - guidryp   Holy Smokes! You ripped 7 albums 5 times just to ...   Apr 3 2002, 12:51
- - Amadeus93   QUOTE Originally posted by pacohaas 1. -b32 hardl...   Apr 3 2002, 13:43
- - JohnV   QUOTE Originally posted by pacohaas 2. While -Y d...   Apr 3 2002, 15:59
- - pacohaas   QUOTE Originally posted by JohnV Again... -Y is n...   Apr 5 2002, 03:08
- - pacohaas   which brings me to yet another idea that I've been...   Apr 5 2002, 03:13


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 1st August 2014 - 08:21