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MP3 Pro at 128 kBit/s, MP3 Pro at 128 kBit/s
milhouse
post Aug 7 2003, 21:38
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I use the Program "My MP3 Pro" from Steinberg. I tried to encode a File with 128 kBit/s and with 64 kBit/s. With both Rates I have 2 Files with the same Bandwith, both go up to 15-16 kHz. It seems that the SBR is only wotking at 64 kBit/s. But why can I trigger the Encoder up to 128 kBit/s, when hi produces the same Quality as the normal MP3-Codec???
Can anybody help me???


sorry for my bad english ....

Milhouse
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indybrett
post Aug 7 2003, 22:26
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How are you determining the bandwidth?

I think you need a decoder that support mp3pro to get the "extra" bandwidth. With a standard mp3 decoder it would look and sound just like any other mp3 file. Maybe I have misunderstood the question.

This post has been edited by indybrett: Aug 7 2003, 22:27


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saratoga
post Aug 8 2003, 03:58
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QUOTE (milhouse @ Aug 7 2003, 12:38 PM)
I use the Program "My MP3 Pro" from Steinberg. I tried to encode a File with 128 kBit/s and with 64 kBit/s. With both Rates I have 2 Files with the same Bandwith, both go up to 15-16 kHz. It seems that the SBR is only wotking at 64 kBit/s. But why can I trigger the Encoder up to 128 kBit/s, when hi produces the same Quality as the normal MP3-Codec???
Can anybody help me???


sorry for my bad english ....

Milhouse

I didn't think 128k mp3pro was possible. What would be the point? At that bitrate you wouldn't need pro.
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ff123
post Aug 8 2003, 06:25
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I think mp3pro vbr 100% (which averages about 130 kbit/s, according to Cool Edit Pro 2.1) can sound better than lame --alt-preset 128. At least on waiting.wav, it sounds much better to my ears.

So I think the jury is out on the idea that mp3pro is not useful for bitrates like 128. This may be another myth waiting to be disproved, just like the idea that MPC is not useful for 128.

ff123
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rjamorim
post Aug 8 2003, 06:34
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I plan to test several MP3 encoders at 128kbps. It would be interesting to include MP3pro in this test. This test would happen later this year.

Of course, this test might not happen if I give up being a masochist and stop conducing tests. :B


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guruboolez
post Aug 8 2003, 10:33
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Last year, I performed a blind listening test on one entire track (Metallica - One), cut on 12 parts (OK, it wasn't the best choice, to take 12 samples from a same track - that's partially why I didn't publish the results). I opposed mpc --radio, PsyTEL --streaming, Vorbis -b 4, lame ABR, mp3pro VBR max, wma and two atrac3 codec (ACM & Real).
MPC won the test. Second, close : PsyTEL AAC. If I remember correctly, LAME was third and Vorbis 4th. The very worse challengers were WMA and MP3PRO, far behind all challengers.
MP3PRO, on loud metal rif, sounded very muffled, despite of a full spectral reproduction... very strange. Stereo imaging seemed to be reduced ; I even suspected myself to ruin the encoding by wrong settings (IS, near stereo ?)

Anyway, I didn't keep good memories from mp3pro at ~130 kbps, especially when compared to lame.
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milhouse
post Aug 8 2003, 23:21
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ok, maybe its not very useful to use MP3 Pro @ 128 kBit/s, but it seems that the SBR is not working at this rate, only at 64 kBit/s. Is that so or is this an characteristic for "My MP3 Pro"?????
The Frequency-analyser shows the same bandwith at both rates (128 and 64), and then is the question that why can I trigger the Encoder to 128 kBit/s when I get no Advantage?????


Milhouse
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amano
post Aug 9 2003, 02:35
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SBR is only working with very low bitrates. technically it would be working with higher bitrates, but you wouldn't gain any additional quality with it.

the same applies for aac HE.
the aac HE main developer ivan dimkovic pointed out several times that SBR is of no use with higher bitrates, so AAC HE is limited to bitrates up to 96kbps. beyond this rate, "normal" aac is used.

that's the problem with mp3pro. most hard and software players don't support the sbr part and without it, it's technically not superior to most other codecs.

at bitrates beyond 100 kbps it should be inferior to both lame and the fraunhoffer codec (here you can believe to guruboolez golden ears, I think, but only a broad listening test can verify this objectively). I heard from many people that at 128 kbps the fraunfoffer codec should be the one of choice, although at higher bitrates lame should be clearly superior.

This post has been edited by amano: Aug 9 2003, 02:38
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ff123
post Aug 9 2003, 02:48
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Actually, In Cool Edit Pro 2.1, there is the capability to encode with mp3pro VBR quality 100%, which is supposed to yield bitrates which average about 130 kbit/s. So apparently, SBR can be used at bitrates higher than 96 kbit/s. I also notice that the spectral view of these files shows frequencies higher than 16 kHz, implying that the base frequency is higher than 8 kHz.

It is definitely superior to lame --alt-preset 128 on waiting.wav (to my ears).

ff123
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amano
post Aug 9 2003, 04:20
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well, might be (I won't touch mp3pro - it's evil)

but that's just one sample...
never judge a codec by just one.
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rjamorim
post Aug 9 2003, 04:22
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That's why I plan to conduce an MP3 listening test by the end of the year.


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AtaqueEG
post Aug 9 2003, 07:56
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ Aug 8 2003, 09:22 PM)
That's why I plan to conduce an MP3 listening test by the end of the year.

Unless you decide to stop being a masochist, right? wink.gif tongue.gif biggrin.gif

Two mentions of such test on a single thread... that's too much of a tease for you to not deliver...


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rjamorim
post Aug 9 2003, 08:43
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QUOTE (AtaqueEG @ Aug 9 2003, 03:56 AM)
Unless you decide to stop being a masochist, right?  wink.gif  tongue.gif  biggrin.gif

Actually, the 64 kbps test will only happen if I stop being a masochist :B

The MP3 test would be scheduled around november or december. There would be several tests before.

QUOTE
Two mentions of such test on a single thread... that's too much of a tease for you to not deliver...


Actually, it's because the opportunity came smile.gif

Who knows, this thread will probably be forgotten until then anyway...


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