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Are CDs lossless?, Evolution of my are WAVs lossless thread
keLston
post Jul 31 2003, 21:42
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Alright, from my thread on whether or not WAV files are lossless, for all intents and purposes, with regards to ripping direct from a CD, it seems like, yes, WAV is lossless.

So going back up the chain from a lossless audio format, so far all data is exact, from lossless audio file <-> wav.

Given that... are CDs lossless? In recording a CD, there has to be a conversion from analog to digital. At the same time, a human voice and instruments, I believe, are not limited to samples per second. So in theory, unless I am wrong (which I will admit that I definately could be), to have a lossless audio CD, the result would have to be an infinite bit rate and an infinite sample rate.

This would mean because CDs are at 16/44.1k (I think?), there is quite a bit of data that is lost. Unless you define lossy, as compression.

So... is a CD lossy?

And if not, how far up the chain do you have to go to get to the point of loss, if there is loss at any point at all? (Chain = Lossless audio format -> Artist)
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Posts in this topic
- keLston   Are CDs lossless?   Jul 31 2003, 21:42
- - streightedg   ::sigh:: and so a can of worms is opened... if y...   Jul 31 2003, 21:48
- - sthayashi   The artist himself is lossy. Why do you think a p...   Jul 31 2003, 21:51
- - amano   answer 1) every A/D and D/A conversion is "lo...   Jul 31 2003, 21:55
- - lexor   can I expand the original question, please? thanx ...   Jul 31 2003, 22:09
- - justinj88   The data on Audio CDs is not compressed, so the te...   Jul 31 2003, 22:09
- - Xenion   i wouldn't call it loss. cds are just made in ...   Jul 31 2003, 22:10
- - rjamorim   What a worthy and useful thread. >_<   Jul 31 2003, 22:11
- - Curi0us_George   1: Lossy / lossless refers to compression, and thu...   Jul 31 2003, 22:52
- - Curi0us_George   QUOTE (lexor @ Jul 31 2003, 01:09 PM)can I ex...   Jul 31 2003, 22:53
- - sthayashi   QUOTE (Curi0us_George @ Jul 31 2003, 01:52 PM...   Jul 31 2003, 23:11
- - Jebus   I don't even know where to start Without get...   Jul 31 2003, 23:11
- - sthayashi   Jebus, you are just a hair too slow   Jul 31 2003, 23:13
- - AtaqueEG   QUOTE (keLston @ Jul 31 2003, 02:42 PM)Alrigh...   Jul 31 2003, 23:30
- - Curi0us_George   QUOTE (sthayashi @ Jul 31 2003, 02:11 PM)QUOT...   Jul 31 2003, 23:47
- - sthayashi   QUOTE (Curi0us_George @ Jul 31 2003, 02:47 PM...   Aug 1 2003, 00:30
- - amano   QUOTE (sthayashi @ Jul 31 2003, 03:30 PM)Othe...   Aug 1 2003, 01:12
- - ScorLibran   The moment audio is *sampled*, it becomes lossy. ...   Aug 1 2003, 01:13
- - KikeG   Some things... Good microphones are just analog, ...   Aug 1 2003, 07:21
- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (ScorLibran @ Aug 1 2003, 12:13 AM)The ...   Aug 1 2003, 09:48
- - ScorLibran   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Aug 1 2003, 04:48 AM)QUOTE...   Aug 1 2003, 10:57
- - Curi0us_George   QUOTE (sthayashi @ Jul 31 2003, 03:30 PM)Firs...   Aug 1 2003, 11:08
- - Curi0us_George   QUOTE (KikeG @ Jul 31 2003, 10:21 PM)Good mic...   Aug 1 2003, 11:11
- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE Is CD audio lossless? It can't be...ever...   Aug 1 2003, 11:26
- - Madrigal   QUOTE (keLston @ Jul 31 2003, 03:42 PM)So in ...   Aug 1 2003, 11:56
- - upNorth   To hear how differences between people can affects...   Aug 1 2003, 11:58
- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (upNorth @ Aug 1 2003, 10:58 AM)To hear...   Aug 1 2003, 13:43
- - Halcyon   QUOTE (keLston @ Jul 31 2003, 10:42 PM)Given ...   Aug 1 2003, 14:05
- - Curi0us_George   QUOTE (Halcyon @ Aug 1 2003, 05:05 AM)In sign...   Aug 1 2003, 15:09
- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Curi0us_George @ Aug 1 2003, 02:09 PM)...   Aug 1 2003, 15:20
- - upNorth   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Aug 1 2003, 02:43 PM)QUOTE...   Aug 1 2003, 16:49
- - KikeG   In my opinion, something like 24/50 (or maybe 24/4...   Aug 1 2003, 17:27
- - Halcyon   QUOTE So, the differences due to different shaped ...   Aug 1 2003, 19:22
- - Halcyon   QUOTE KikeG In my opinion, something like 24/50 (o...   Aug 1 2003, 19:38
- - KikeG   QUOTE (Halcyon @ Aug 1 2003, 07:38 PM)This co...   Aug 1 2003, 20:55
- - Pio2001   Wow ! It makes HDCD's dynamic gain a smart...   Aug 1 2003, 21:04
- - Heaven17   "What a worthy and useful thread. " ...   Aug 1 2003, 22:39
- - F1Sushi   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jul 31 2003, 05:11 PM)What ...   Aug 2 2003, 00:03
- - ScorLibran   QUOTE (sthayashi @ Jul 31 2003, 06:11 PM)Also...   Aug 2 2003, 02:28
- - cjanscen   A couple thoughts: You can look at a CD-medium fo...   Aug 2 2003, 02:44
- - ScorLibran   QUOTE (Heaven17 @ Aug 1 2003, 05:39 PM)Well, ...   Aug 2 2003, 03:53
- - ger@co   "Lossy Audio Formats The term "lossy aud...   Aug 2 2003, 06:57
- - ScorLibran   QUOTE (ger@co @ Aug 2 2003, 01:57 AM)The key ...   Aug 2 2003, 07:23
- - deej_1977   I have a similar question I am just dying to ask: ...   Aug 2 2003, 07:47
- - Pio2001   QUOTE (deej_1977 @ Aug 2 2003, 09:47 AM)Altho...   Aug 2 2003, 11:43
- - KikeG   Under that strict definition of "lossless...   Aug 2 2003, 14:06
- - Lego   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jul 31 2003, 11:11 PM)What ...   Aug 2 2003, 15:13
- - Pio2001   QUOTE (Lego @ Aug 2 2003, 05:13 PM)Yep, i agr...   Aug 2 2003, 16:03
- - F1Sushi   Thanks for moving this thread elsewhere...and my a...   Aug 2 2003, 22:32
- - ScorLibran   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Aug 2 2003, 08:43 AM)Actuall...   Aug 4 2003, 06:03
- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Halcyon @ Aug 1 2003, 06:22 PM)QUOTE S...   Aug 4 2003, 11:57
- - 2Bdecided   ScorLibran, You're sure that something is los...   Aug 4 2003, 12:13
- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Aug 2 2003, 03:03 PM)However...   Aug 4 2003, 12:20
- - ScorLibran   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Aug 4 2003, 07:13 AM)Obvio...   Aug 5 2003, 06:13
- - keLston   Thanks for all the replies, it will take a bit for...   Aug 7 2003, 23:22
- - buzzy   In the interest of some kind of resolution on a pr...   Sep 15 2003, 14:53
- - 2Bdecided   buzzy, I think most of your points/questions have...   Sep 15 2003, 16:50
- - buzzy   Really? I'd take the other bet. DVD-A and (e...   Sep 15 2003, 20:17
- - fewtch   QUOTE (ScorLibran @ Aug 4 2003, 10:13 PM)And ...   Sep 15 2003, 21:24
- - mithrandir   The community's energy is better spent getting...   Sep 16 2003, 01:37
- - Pio2001   FPS discussion splitted : http://www.hydrogenaudio...   Sep 16 2003, 22:26


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