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Soundcard digital pathways?, If you skip the DAC are they 'perfect'?
puntloos
post Jul 28 2003, 13:27
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I was wondering,

If you use a soundcard's digital out and tell it not to equalize/eax/otherprocessing, is the digital quality 'perfect'?

Case in point I have a professional DSP hooked up to my SB audigy's digital out. If I were to upgrade the audigy (not that I have the $$$ but for argument's sake wink.gif ), would I get any improvement in the sound quality of my mpc audio playback?

Basically I hear some 'stories' from people that say 'yes' to the last question but I find it hard to believe that the digital ".wav" data from winamp would get distorted by the sound card that's hooked up to it. provided of course I don't use the onboard DAC's or some hardware DSP feature like resampling or spatialisation crap, but Im telling my computer to have all EQ's off and just play back the file.

Anyone know the answer here?
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Axon
post Aug 7 2006, 15:28
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BTW, I have an RME DIGI96/8 PAD, and I can attest to the no-resampling policy of the drivers. I can also say that the drivers kind of suck. They do not support standby or suspend/resume (the card loses all I/O if you go into standby), and they haven't been updated in like 3-5 years or so. Granted, the card is obsoleted, and the drivers are very minimalistically built, but still....
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puntloos
post Aug 7 2006, 15:45
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QUOTE (odyssey @ Aug 7 2006, 06:06) *
Am I missing someting?


Yes. You're missing the 'I haven't tested this myself' bit. Id like to be SURE that the card does it properly before I buy it. smile.gif

QUOTE (CSMR @ Aug 7 2006, 05:45) *
What are you doing with Quad speakers and an Audigy sound card?!

Well obviously Im not skimping on component quality but if the audigy does what it needs to do it is fine for my purposes. I have no use for audiophile DA convertors (or whatever) on the sound card, all I need is a bit-perfect digital out (and perhaps optimized, high-quality volume resampling.. but winamp can do that for me, right?)

Anyway in the end I would like to hear about a normal card with proper drivers that CERTAINLY does bit-perfect output. So far Ive heard quite a few 'possibly maybe hopefully'-s.. however those terratecs might be the way to go

(Im considering to put the new card next to the audigy btw, sounds like a useful plan to have one digital perfect card that only gets used for winamp, and having the audigy make 'windows sounds' ('DING' sucks at high volumes through my 989s tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by puntloos: Aug 7 2006, 15:47
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puntloos
post Aug 7 2006, 15:56
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Plus oh yeah the terratec DMX6fire isn't being sold anymore sad.gif

QUOTE (CSMR @ Aug 7 2006, 06:48) *
I think all so-called professional or semi-professional cards can give you bit perfect output through ASIO. They can also output windows sounds. No need to have two cards.


Well no I mean I DONT want them to output 'ding' smile.gif If I have 2 soundcards, I can tell windows to 'ding' on the soundblaster and have winamp(foobar) be the only app to send audio to the pro card and into my main speakers.

Could someone perhaps LIST us a few pro cards that don't need wonky ASIO drivers, work dependably, dont have 7.1 surround recording etc etc?

I need:
- stereo
- 24bits/192Khz
- Preferrably but not explicitly necessary: good DA convertors
- and the main requirement: bitperfect digital out

That's all. Assuming those demands are met, the cheapest possible card fits my bill.
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puntloos
post Aug 7 2006, 18:25
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krt. leave it to creative to be extra-super-fuzzy about what output formats its digital output module supports.

For one I would need the 'platinum' to even get digital out, but also (or the extrememusic with optional breakout module). But secondly while browsing the specs I get the impression that while the X-Fi's DACs do indeed support 192Khz, its digital out only reaches 96.
CODE
24-bit Analog-to-Digital conversion of analog inputs: 96kHz sampling rate
24-bit Digital-to-Analog conversion of digital sources: 96khz to analog 7.1 speaker output
24-bit Digital-to-Analog conversion of stereo digital sources:     192kHz to stereo output
16-bit to 24-bit recording sampling rates: 8, 11.025, 16, 22.05, 24, 32, 44.1, 48 and 96kHz
ASIO 2.0 support: 16-bit/44.1kHz, 16-bit/48kHz, 24-bit/44.1kHz, 24-bit/48kHz and 24-bit/96kHz with direct monitoring


Plus the platinum is 2x as expensive as the m-audio..

Now all I need to do is find out 'for sure' that the m-audio does what I want, direct-audio-wise.

It does say 'ASIO 2.0 support'. Is that an automatic confirmation there? Or doesnt that mean anything for bit-exact output?

This post has been edited by puntloos: Aug 7 2006, 18:27
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Posts in this topic
- puntloos   Soundcard digital pathways?   Jul 28 2003, 13:27
- - AstralStorm   Digital should be, well, bit identical. But.., Som...   Jul 28 2003, 13:36
- - jrbamford   then there is the kmixer and other filters that wi...   Jul 28 2003, 14:02
- - Pio2001   It's very difficult to get a perfect digital p...   Jul 28 2003, 21:04
- - Patsoe   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Jul 28 2003, 09:04 PM)It...   Jul 28 2003, 21:23
- - puntloos   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Jul 28 2003, 12:04 PM)It...   Jul 28 2003, 22:48
- - jrbamford   apparently somewhere on avsforum there is a techni...   Jul 28 2003, 22:55
- - AstralStorm   Bypassing kmixer is possible with DirectSound. The...   Jul 28 2003, 23:06
- - Patsoe   @jrbamford: I was re-reading the link I provided, ...   Jul 28 2003, 23:40
- - puntloos   Indeed. I noticed that too. Im already registrin...   Jul 28 2003, 23:58
- - jrbamford   puntloos.. if you can afford possible reinstall i...   Jul 29 2003, 00:09
- - AstralStorm   Sorry, even setting latency to 512samples/sec (max...   Jul 29 2003, 03:32
- - puntloos   It would be cool if you could switch between the t...   Jul 29 2003, 03:37
- - dgover2   QUOTE Bypassing kmixer is possible with DirectSoun...   Jul 29 2003, 04:57
- - Halcyon   Let me try and summarise (please correct if I...   Jul 29 2003, 07:55
- - KikeG   Waveout is bit-perfect on Win9X, given that the mi...   Jul 29 2003, 08:58
|- - puntloos   Bump! (hah.. 3 year old topic..) Guys, Im S...   Aug 7 2006, 13:46
|- - probedb   QUOTE (puntloos @ Aug 7 2006, 13:46) Wha...   Aug 7 2006, 15:26
- - CSMR   What are you doing with Quad speakers and an Audig...   Aug 7 2006, 14:45
- - odyssey   QUOTE (puntloos @ Aug 7 2006, 14:46) add:...   Aug 7 2006, 15:06
- - Axon   BTW, I have an RME DIGI96/8 PAD, and I can attest ...   Aug 7 2006, 15:28
|- - puntloos   QUOTE (odyssey @ Aug 7 2006, 06:06) Am I ...   Aug 7 2006, 15:45
|- - puntloos   Plus oh yeah the terratec DMX6fire isn't being...   Aug 7 2006, 15:56
|- - puntloos   krt. leave it to creative to be extra-super-fuzzy ...   Aug 7 2006, 18:25
|- - Night Rain   Never mind. Didn't see the post above.   Aug 8 2006, 12:59
- - CSMR   I think all so-called professional or semi-profess...   Aug 7 2006, 15:48
- - probedb   Did everyone just ignore me? I mentioned a $2...   Aug 7 2006, 16:06
|- - puntloos   QUOTE (probedb @ Aug 7 2006, 07:06) Did e...   Aug 7 2006, 16:15
- - odyssey   QUOTE (puntloos @ Aug 7 2006, 16:45) QUOT...   Aug 7 2006, 16:34
|- - puntloos   QUOTE (odyssey @ Aug 7 2006, 07:34) QUOTE...   Aug 7 2006, 17:38
- - Rotareneg   Creative X-Fi cards let you select the master cloc...   Aug 7 2006, 17:43
|- - puntloos   QUOTE (Rotareneg @ Aug 7 2006, 08:43) Cre...   Aug 7 2006, 18:13
- - HotshotGG   QUOTE Now all I need to do is find out 'for su...   Aug 7 2006, 18:42
|- - puntloos   QUOTE (HotshotGG @ Aug 7 2006, 09:42) QUO...   Aug 7 2006, 18:55
- - CSMR   QUOTE (puntloos @ Aug 7 2006, 06:56) Well...   Aug 7 2006, 19:04
|- - puntloos   QUOTE (CSMR @ Aug 7 2006, 10:04) QUOTE I ...   Aug 7 2006, 22:30
|- - master   QUOTE (puntloos @ Aug 7 2006, 13:30) Sadl...   Aug 15 2006, 23:09
|- - puntloos   QUOTE (master @ Aug 15 2006, 14:09) If my...   Aug 21 2006, 15:39
- - Patsoe   Actually, I think there is officially no such thin...   Aug 7 2006, 23:16
|- - puntloos   QUOTE (Patsoe @ Aug 7 2006, 14:16) Actual...   Aug 8 2006, 00:25
- - odyssey   QUOTE (puntloos @ Aug 7 2006, 19:25) For ...   Aug 8 2006, 11:36
- - jvs   @puntloos: Why don't you buy an ESI Juli@? Thi...   Aug 14 2006, 23:20
- - Sebastian Mares   I am somewhat confused now - Pio said that Hercule...   Aug 15 2006, 23:49
- - Patsoe   QUOTE (Sebastian Mares @ Aug 15 2006, 23...   Aug 16 2006, 00:04
- - Sebastian Mares   Ah, right. Didn't they use Cirrus Logic back t...   Aug 16 2006, 00:23
- - odyssey   QUOTE (Rotareneg @ Aug 7 2006, 18:43) Cre...   Aug 22 2006, 21:32
- - puntloos   Well I've bought the M-Audio Revolution 5.1. ...   Aug 23 2006, 10:33
- - 2Bdecided   You know all this bitperfect stuff? While I agree...   Aug 23 2006, 11:14
- - puntloos   I have to make one admission here.. my DAC is the ...   Aug 23 2006, 11:33
- - cabbagerat   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Aug 23 2006, 02:14) If...   Aug 23 2006, 13:10
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (cabbagerat @ Aug 23 2006, 13:10) O...   Aug 23 2006, 13:49
|- - puntloos   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Aug 23 2006, 04:49) QU...   Aug 23 2006, 16:46
||- - Patsoe   QUOTE (puntloos @ Aug 23 2006, 16:46) ......   Aug 23 2006, 17:03
||- - puntloos   QUOTE (Patsoe @ Aug 23 2006, 08:03) QUOTE...   Aug 23 2006, 17:21
|- - puntloos   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Aug 23 2006, 04:49) If...   Aug 23 2006, 18:16
|- - Patsoe   QUOTE (puntloos @ Aug 23 2006, 18:16) Her...   Aug 23 2006, 18:32
|- - puntloos   QUOTE (Patsoe @ Aug 23 2006, 09:32) QUOTE...   Aug 23 2006, 19:22
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (puntloos @ Aug 23 2006, 19:22) QUO...   Aug 24 2006, 13:42
- - odyssey   QUOTE (odyssey @ Aug 22 2006, 22:32) QUOT...   Aug 31 2006, 21:14
- - coburn_c   On my X-fi, in "audio creation mode" it ...   Oct 6 2006, 02:29
- - odyssey   QUOTE (coburn_c @ Oct 6 2006, 03:29) On m...   Oct 6 2006, 09:13
|- - coburn_c   QUOTE (odyssey @ Oct 6 2006, 03:13) QUOTE...   Oct 6 2006, 14:55
- - CSMR   You will not get bit perfect playback unless there...   Oct 7 2006, 03:03
- - odyssey   QUOTE (coburn_c @ Oct 6 2006, 15:55) QUOT...   Oct 7 2006, 12:50
- - CSMR   What you have just said would imply that bitmatche...   Oct 7 2006, 15:51
|- - odyssey   QUOTE (CSMR @ Oct 7 2006, 16:51) What you...   Oct 7 2006, 16:18
- - CSMR   Then what happens if you have a bit-perfect stream...   Oct 7 2006, 17:44
|- - coburn_c   QUOTE (CSMR @ Oct 7 2006, 11:44) Then wha...   Oct 7 2006, 18:32
- - CSMR   (Which is that is not compatible with what odyssey...   Oct 8 2006, 01:58
- - odyssey   QUOTE (CSMR @ Oct 7 2006, 18:44) Then wha...   Oct 8 2006, 16:29
|- - coburn_c   QUOTE (odyssey @ Oct 8 2006, 10:29) Just ...   Oct 9 2006, 00:26
|- - odyssey   QUOTE (coburn_c @ Oct 9 2006, 01:26) I...   Oct 9 2006, 14:26
- - coburn_c   What about this card?   Oct 10 2006, 04:38
- - Marvin77   Hmm, interesting. I found this review http://ww...   Oct 10 2006, 18:46
|- - coburn_c   That review was kind of crappy.. but those cpu uti...   Oct 10 2006, 22:57
- - MartinO2   I just wonder, what kind of resampling method is ...   May 2 2007, 11:52
|- - eevan   QUOTE (MartinO2 @ May 2 2007, 12:52) I ju...   May 2 2007, 13:05
- - IndieRockSteve   So is it possible to tell if a soundcard is borkin...   May 22 2007, 15:03


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