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Any wireless headphones with lossless transport?
rutra80
post Feb 19 2014, 10:53
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AFAIK most wireless headphones (Blutooth, IR, etc.) incorporate lossy codecs for transmitter-receiver transport, are there any which do that losslessly at 44.1kHz/16bit at least?

This post has been edited by rutra80: Feb 19 2014, 10:54
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mzil
post Feb 19 2014, 16:13
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I don't think they are still in production, but the Sennheiser MX W1 was said to have "Lossless sound transmission (CD quality)" using KLEER technology. Also the TDK WR700 fit the same description, I believe, but are a different style and more affordable.

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DonP
post Feb 19 2014, 17:04
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QUOTE (rutra80 @ Feb 19 2014, 04:53) *
AFAIK most wireless headphones (Blutooth, IR, etc.) incorporate lossy codecs for transmitter-receiver transport, are there any which do that losslessly at 44.1kHz/16bit at least?


You could just send an uncompressed stream digitally. AFAIK lossless compression will run into some latency/compression tradeoffs.
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skamp
post Feb 19 2014, 17:46
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Sennheiser RS 160/180/220 for home use, all using Kleer technology.


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rutra80
post Feb 19 2014, 21:11
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I guess there's no chance for something at 50$ / 40 euro price tag?
QUOTE (DonP @ Feb 19 2014, 17:04) *
You could just send an uncompressed stream digitally. AFAIK lossless compression will run into some latency/compression tradeoffs.

Latency would be bad - I want it for working in DAW which already has its own latency. Hopefully KLEER streams it uncompressed.

This post has been edited by rutra80: Feb 19 2014, 21:16
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andy o
post Feb 20 2014, 03:43
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I got the RS160 and RS170. Basically they're the same headphones with different transmitters and functions. I find myself using the RS160 more even though the 170 has a charging dock, cause apparently the 170 is too "smart" for its own good and applies an automatic volume limiter.

I don't know how much latency you're willing to put up with, but for watching video it's negligible. For instruments though it's pretty much unusable (tried with my electric guitar).

QUOTE (skamp @ Feb 19 2014, 08:46) *
Sennheiser RS 160/180/220 for home use, all using Kleer technology.

Are you sure the 220 is Kleer? It's a newer model, I think it came out after Kleer products in general dropped from the face of the earth.

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skamp
post Feb 20 2014, 08:54
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I don't know about the RS 170 (is there such a model?) but Automatic Level Control (ALC) can be deactivated on the RS 180 with the second button from the bottom on the dock. As for the RS 220, the manual says it uses "uncompressed" 16 bit, 48 kHz PCM.


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markanini
post Feb 20 2014, 09:03
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Android + Soundwire app and use any headphone you like.

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rutra80
post Feb 20 2014, 15:35
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QUOTE (andy o @ Feb 20 2014, 03:43) *
I don't know how much latency you're willing to put up with, but for watching video it's negligible. For instruments though it's pretty much unusable (tried with my electric guitar).

You mean that plugging them straight into amp without any route through computer/software already gives unusable latency? sad.gif

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andy o
post Feb 21 2014, 17:59
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That's what I did, and there was noticeable latency.
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andy o
post Feb 21 2014, 18:05
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QUOTE (skamp @ Feb 19 2014, 23:54) *
I don't know about the RS 170 (is there such a model?) but Automatic Level Control (ALC) can be deactivated on the RS 180 with the second button from the bottom on the dock. As for the RS 220, the manual says it uses "uncompressed" 16 bit, 48 kHz PCM.

Yeah, I was all over Kleer at the time. The 160, 170 and 180 came out at the same time, the 180 was the flagship. The 220 came much later, and the 170 was discontinued. The 220 has no mention of Kleer, which may be important because with Kleer you can mix and match and even use up to 4 headphones with one transmitter. It's a shame there's no more standards like that. Kleernet is supposed to be out there with even better features, but only one headphone that I know of is using it, and it's a fugly gaming headset.

About the volume, it was not ALC, it seems it was some sort of distortion protection which seemed too trigger-happy to me. Not really a deal breaker, but since I already had the 160 I just use that.
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madmaxheadphones
post Mar 6 2014, 00:37
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for budget wireless i would go for the sony wireless rf810 headphones http://www.shoppingway.co.uk/sony-wireless...hones-mdr-rf810
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rutra80
post Mar 6 2014, 22:21
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QUOTE
• Transmission type: FM stereo

Does it mean that transmission is analogue, hence no lossy compression?
...or is it just spam?

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andy o
post Mar 6 2014, 23:04
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The transmission is analog, but it doesn't mean it's not lossy. You'll likely hear some, maybe a lot, of noise and interference. It's very old tech.

I also wondered if it was spam though.
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madmaxheadphones
post Mar 6 2014, 23:23
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is the Sennheiser rs220 not digital !!!!
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madmaxheadphones
post Mar 6 2014, 23:24
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the rs170 rs160 rs120 maybe discontinued but are widely still available on all leading ecommerce websites
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andy o
post Mar 7 2014, 08:42
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The RS120 is also not digital.
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rutra80
post Mar 7 2014, 12:42
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I'm more afraid of psy-model artifacts than noise or interference in this case. At the end I can always use wired headphones or speakers, so analog transmission could do for what I want it for.
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rutra80
post Mar 7 2014, 12:58
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QUOTE (markanini @ Feb 20 2014, 09:03) *
Android + Soundwire app and use any headphone you like.

There's no Android at home except that baby-tablet of my son, but that would be inconvenient.
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Arnold B. Kruege...
post Mar 7 2014, 13:49
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QUOTE (andy o @ Mar 7 2014, 02:42) *
The RS120 is also not digital.


Not only that, but it has a fair number of clearly audible artifacts related to its use of analog 900 MHz transmission.

The later true digital models are IME vastly improved.
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markanini
post Mar 7 2014, 13:49
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QUOTE (rutra80 @ Mar 7 2014, 12:58) *
QUOTE (markanini @ Feb 20 2014, 09:03) *
Android + Soundwire app and use any headphone you like.

There's no Android at home except that baby-tablet of my son, but that would be inconvenient.

I agree, considering you can find a used android for 20-30 EUR using your sons tablet would be very inconvenient. laugh.gif
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andy o
post Mar 7 2014, 16:30
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I doubt the Android solution would be less laggy than the Kleer headphones, which are just laggy enough to not be usable with instruments, but OK for everything else including games.
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andy o
post Mar 7 2014, 16:38
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QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Mar 7 2014, 04:49) *
QUOTE (andy o @ Mar 7 2014, 02:42) *
The RS120 is also not digital.


Not only that, but it has a fair number of clearly audible artifacts related to its use of analog 900 MHz transmission.

The later true digital models are IME vastly improved.

Do you have any experience with IR headphones? I never took them too seriously but only for TV watching, but if you have line of sight and don't have to be too far from the source, could they produce less hiss or more fidelity than the RF headphones?

This post has been edited by andy o: Mar 7 2014, 16:39
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Arnold B. Kruege...
post Mar 8 2014, 15:37
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QUOTE (andy o @ Mar 7 2014, 10:38) *
QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Mar 7 2014, 04:49) *
QUOTE (andy o @ Mar 7 2014, 02:42) *
The RS120 is also not digital.


Not only that, but it has a fair number of clearly audible artifacts related to its use of analog 900 MHz transmission.

The later true digital models are IME vastly improved.

Do you have any experience with IR headphones? I never took them too seriously but only for TV watching, but if you have line of sight and don't have to be too far from the source, could they produce less hiss or more fidelity than the RF headphones?


IR headphones like RF headphones can be based on analog or digital transport processes. One the basic link has been established digitally, then there is really no reason why one would be better than the other.

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence related to the relative convenience of IR versus RF, and it appears that RF is generally the preferred choice. The third choice is the inductive link.
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Arnold B. Kruege...
post Mar 8 2014, 15:39
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QUOTE (andy o @ Mar 7 2014, 10:30) *
I doubt the Android solution would be less laggy than the Kleer headphones, which are just laggy enough to not be usable with instruments, but OK for everything else including games.


I agree that my Kleer headphones (RS 140 and RS 160) have clearly audible latency.
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