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Car radio supporting Ogg?, Why still don't exist?
seantellis
post Mar 2 2006, 16:44
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The Tevion unit seems to be the same as the Yakumo Hypersound Car, which is getting a real mauling for basic firmware flaws and poor radio reception over at Amazon UK: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B...4307734-5733220

I have a Yakumo and I'm afraid that, even with Ogg support, I would not recommend it to anyone. (This may change if they produce a firmware update.)
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Supacon
post Mar 23 2006, 23:49
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It seems that manufacturers like to claim that their firmware is upgradable as a key selling feature, but when their users actually want to see an upgrade, they don't quickly go about getting around to it. I suppose they'd rather focus R&D on developing new products. Upgrading firmware probably doesn't sell a lot of units. Once you've bought it, you've bought it.

In some instances, I might be willing to actually pay a small fee for a firmware upgrade, but I don't think that it's really fair to sell "Lifetime upgradability" as a feature, then be expected to fork over more money when a new version comes out.
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SlowPulse
post Apr 2 2006, 10:55
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QUOTE (suhrim @ Jan 3 2006, 04:23 PM)
QUOTE (Alexxander @ Dec 9 2004, 02:05 PM)
Neither did I find car radios with integrated DVD supporting mp3.


I found this one that supports mp3 from DVD.
*



Seems Sony has one also: MEX-R1

From the page:

* Giga MP3, store up to 1000 songs on 1 DVD
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tsioc
post Apr 21 2006, 06:32
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QUOTE (Supacon @ Mar 23 2006, 03:49 PM) *
It seems that manufacturers like to claim that their firmware is upgradable as a key selling feature, but when their users actually want to see an upgrade, they don't quickly go about getting around to it. I suppose they'd rather focus R&D on developing new products. Upgrading firmware probably doesn't sell a lot of units. Once you've bought it, you've bought it.

In some instances, I might be willing to actually pay a small fee for a firmware upgrade, but I don't think that it's really fair to sell "Lifetime upgradability" as a feature, then be expected to fork over more money when a new version comes out.



where's Rockbox when I need it? I'm gonna start writing the companies that make car stereos and requesting support for Vorbis. I'm guessing that others have before, but it can't hurt to have one more potential customer asking for it.
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blandoon
post May 15 2006, 00:37
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I am happy to report that the JVC KD-G720 and KD-G820 (at the very least) support Ogg Vorbis playback. biggrin.gif

I went into Best Buy today with my USB thumb-drive armed with one MP3 and one OGG (both VBR, relatively high-quality, but I forget the exact specs), and they both worked like a charm. Check the photo below; sorry for the crappy Treo camera-phone quality:



The song is Nebula - "So it Goes." Notice that the file name is truncated in the display - annoying, but probably not a show-stopper.

The -720 is going for $189.99 at Best Buy right now. The -820 (shown in the photo) is pretty much the same but has a high-res animated display. The JVC literature, as you might expect, says absolutely nothing about Ogg Vorbis support.

Alpine and Kenwood also make units with USB ports, but theirs are both accessible through cables on the back, and the Best Buy drones had wired an iPod and a Creative Zen respectively into their display - and as we know, neither of these support Ogg Vorbis because they suck. I couldn't find anyone knowledgeable to ask about trying them out (no surprise there). Maybe I'll try again later when I have more time to haggle, or see if I can find some of those units at a local stereo place.

If anyone has a chance to try any of the other USB units in a store I suggest it, and we'd all like to hear the results...
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vinnie97
post May 15 2006, 10:13
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Great find! I wish Alpine would support Vorbis...I've an old head unit whose volume rotary knob is failing and makes volume adjustment a hassle. However, I have an Alpine 10-disc CD changer in the trunk, which still works like a charm so I don't want to chunk it. I have to wonder if JVC makes any mention of said format support on their website. It's ridiculous that they couldn't add 3 measly letters to the spec to reveal all that it plays. It makes you wonder how many other hidden features exist in the wild...

I also wonder if this will read files and dirs from the Nano with a Rockbox installation. It behaves slightly differently than your average USB storage memory device.

This post has been edited by vinnie97: Jul 12 2006, 10:44
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tycho
post May 15 2006, 11:00
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Interesting that the JVC player supports Vorbis. However, does it playback .ogg songs from the CD, and not only from the USB device? Also, the model you mention does only support CDs and not DVDs. JVC has serveral players with Giga-MP3, i.e. DVD support, e.g. JVC KD-DV5101 and JVC KD-DV6101 (no USB input). Would be very interesting if they played both .ogg and .mp3's from the DVD!

Edit: Well I think I found the answer (and it's not good news):
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-935j336oifE/c...DG820&id=review
QUOTE
USB support is not all it's made out to be.
Written by Tommyj, Minneapolis, MN on April 19, 2006

I've had this deck for about two weeks and it is going back as soon as my new deck shows up. I bought it almost exclusively for the front USB input, which I had planned to use to connect my 20GB iRiver and 60GB portable hard drive. A couple things that you should aware of before purchasing this deck for the USB are that it only supports a 4GB partition, which eliminates most hard drive players. The deck will also only read 2500 tracks and a smaller number of directories. The deck also appears to have corrupted the filesystem on my iRiver when I tried plugging it in.

The deck does have undocumented support for vorbis .ogg files, but this is limited to usb connected devices, not CDs. The vorbis support also seems to be poor, I experienced a lot of skipping on normally perfect files.

Another issue I encountered was the clock display freezing. During the first 20 minutes of a drive, my clock read 8:16. I turned the deck off and back on and it displayed (and promptly froze again) 8:34.

IMHO, this deck has some serious issues and any one who is remotely picky about their electronics will be ultimately disappointed.


This post has been edited by tycho: May 15 2006, 12:33
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LongJohn
post May 15 2006, 13:12
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Dear All,

Try this:

Yakumo Hypersound:-

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B...6188554-3035023

You can get it form Dabs.com too.

cheers

LJ
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vinnie97
post May 15 2006, 21:27
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That's unfortunate, Tycho. Since I only have flash players up to 4GB, those limitations wouldn't harm me but the crippled Vorbis support has me worried. I'm thinking of bringing my Nano and/or I5 with cable into the local Best Buy and attempting playback of some of my q1 Vorbis files. I read in another review where the unit is incapable of resuming after turnoff and the shuffle feature is only half-baked. It very well might be too good to be true.

Thanks for the link, LongJohn, but reviews are pretty mixed on that unit, too. Additionally, Amazon only ships that unit within the UK and I didn't find the product on Dabs' page...

This post has been edited by vinnie97: May 15 2006, 21:33
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blandoon
post May 16 2006, 05:15
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For what it's worth, I did try popping off the faceplate, and it resumed correctly when I put it back on. It might be different if you shut the unit off with the actual power button. I guess I (or someone) need to do a more thorough test, such as bringing in a CD as well as a USB drive, etc.

I did read some of the reviews on that Yakumo unit, and "mixed" is pretty generous... unless you mean a mixture of bad and horrendous. It's a shame, too; it seems like a great opportunity for a smallish manufacturer to really do this right and open up a new market. Best Buy is also selling a USB model by Insignia, which seems to be getting similar reviews (it might even be a clone of the same unit).
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pepoluan
post May 16 2006, 07:36
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QUOTE (tsioc @ Apr 21 2006, 12:32) *
I'm gonna start writing the companies that make car stereos and requesting support for Vorbis. I'm guessing that others have before, but it can't hurt to have one more potential customer asking for it.
Grrrrreat idea. Where do you write to? I mean, it's pointless to write to the Sales Dept.

Anyway, when you write letter, mention also the growing support for Vorbis. Amongst others:
  • Windows players that support Vorbis: foobar2000, winamp, mediamonkey, etc.
  • Portable players that support Vorbis (with or without Rockbox. Don't tell): iAudio, iPod, etc.
  • Gamemakers that support Vorbis: Microsoft, RAD Tools, etc.
  • The quality of Vorbis
  • HydrogenAudio.org
It also helps to say that since many portable players now support Vorbis, you plan to use a cheaper system from their competitor linked to your portable player, but you decide to give their company a second chance... biggrin.gif


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halb27
post May 16 2006, 07:50
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Can you consider using a mobile DAP in the car (Lucem wrote about this idea already)?

I do it this way and have plugged my iRiver H140 to my car radio.

It's a pity that car radios usually don't have an adequate connector for this purposes.
But if you are able to solder a little bit it's not a problem if you buy a car radio with the possibility to attach a cd changer. This is the case with my car radio.
I bought a cheap adapter that plugs to the cd changer adapter of the car radio, and soldered a 3.5mm cable (attached to the player's earphone output) to the cd changer connector. Moreover a pin of the cd changer connector called 'cd bus' has to be connected to ground on the cd changer connector to tell the radio it is to use the changer (I do it via a switch so that I can still use my car radio cd drive, but I actually never did it after having connected my DAP).

That's all. I love the idea of a universal music machine I can use on its own and plug to whatever I like.


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pepoluan
post May 16 2006, 08:09
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halb27: Actually I personally prefer using my iPaq2210 for all my playing needs. Saves from synchronizing necessities.

Unfortunately, my iPaq2210 also goes with me into my office, and it's a bit quiet there, so I have to use -q 1. At least.

On the road, it's not that quiet, and I pay more attention to the strange sounds coming under the hood than to any artefacts. So -q 0 is acceptable. Fits more songs into the CD/FlashDrive/CF/whathaveyou.

Of course I don't (yet) have an Vorbis-supporting head unit so it's kind of a moot point now. Who knows in the (hopefully near) future.


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HbG
post Jun 27 2006, 22:45
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QUOTE (zilexa @ Jan 15 2006, 12:46) *
This is true! it's a very low price and you get a car radio that not only supports OGG VORBIS but also has a SD cardreader and USB slot.
In the Netherlands, these radio's (about 3 or 4 different brands, varies in no USB/SD or only SD etc) are also being sold by Kijkshop.
Please check kijkshop.nl to check if this company is also in your country.


Hey, i live in the Netherlands, so i'm very interested in such a radio. I've checked their site, but couldn't find anything in the descriptions. Could you confirm the MARQUANT MCR-720 one of the kijkshop models supporting vorbis? Marquant themselves don't seem to have any web presence and google is inconclusive. It's currently the only non-brand radio they offer with SD and USB slots, it seems.


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vinnie97
post Jul 12 2006, 10:38
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As a followup on this thread, I visited Best Buy yesterday with both my Iaudio I5 and Rockboxed Nano (both containing files at q1; aotuv-b4.51 encapsulated in a recent Lancer build). I tested them on 2 JVC units, the KD-G820 and KD-G720 (Best Buy didn't have either of JVC's DVD units on display). On both units, the "drives" loaded in about 5 to 10 seconds and played back without issue. Playback was not gapless (I wasn't expecting it to be) and resuming is not possible after shutting off the unit (no placeholder is set). However, it is possible when switching between sources (radio, aux, USB, etc.). Navigation was decent and I could cycle up and down through the folders alphabetically using a couple of scrolling buttons. The first 8 directories under root can be activated directly with 8 numbered keys below the panel. The display truncated the folder names (not the files interestingly), making navigation slightly annoying but nothing I couldn't work around.

Interestingly and more surprisingly, I tried my I5/Nano on a couple of Insignia (Best Buy in-house) units with marginal success. First, the IN-MP101 (which Best Buy actually lists on their website as supporting "OGG" shock1.gif ) would not even load my Nano after a minute, at which point I gave up. I neglected to test the Iaudio on this device. However, the NS-C5111 (which also has an SD card slot, which I did not test) detected the Nano and I5 in about as much time as the JVC devices did and even detected the sampling rate and bitrate of the files. Navigation and display was similar to the JVCs also. Also, no resume after switching the unit off and no gapless playback.

These Insignias are clearly not top of the line but at least the NS-C5111 gets the job done in relation to Vorbis playback on the go in a very affordable package.

I've heard the CD units in the JVC devices do not support Vorbis playback, though I don't know about the Insignias.

Alpine disappointed me the most with their Apple-like (accessorize!) approach in obtaining portable media device playback. It's too bad because I have an approximately 10-year-old Alpine head unit and CD changer (the latter still works perfectly) that have served me well but I may have to retire it/ebay it, as I'm seriously considering getting the JVC KD-G720 tomorrow....

This post has been edited by vinnie97: Jul 12 2006, 10:55
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kritip
post Jul 12 2006, 12:02
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Those JVC's were using the additional KS-PD100 right?

I only ask as I have just bought a similar item for my existing Pioneer Head Unit, and was never expecting it would actually work with rockbox!! If the possibility is theres, thats fantastic biggrin.gif

Kristian
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vinnie97
post Jul 12 2006, 12:30
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No, it's even simpler than that! The KS-PD100 is not needed. The USB ports are directly on the front of the JVC device. I don't know how your Pioneer will fare but a Rockboxed Nano behaves very similarly to a USB device, so connecting the device to the head unit is the equivalent of connecting it to a PC. All the files can be read by the head unit without any additional hardware.
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kritip
post Jul 12 2006, 12:39
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Ah I see, and that unit has undocumented vorbis support.

With the unit i have on order, it has a completly different approach, it controls the ipod through teh dock, and uses the ports line out for sound. I guess this will only work with the apple firmware, which is what i initally thought, till i got confused by the way the JVC works.

Will report either way, when I get it though smile.gif

Kristian
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themaiday
post Aug 8 2006, 14:10
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So blandoon,

can you recommend the radio? Does it freeze on Vorbis playback? Any other flaws?
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vinnie97
post Aug 8 2006, 17:24
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I know that question wasn't directed at me but I can provide an answer, having purchased the JVC KD-G720 (assuming that's the unit you meant).

It does not freeze on Vorbis playback via the USB device. The 2 most significant caveats I've found are lack of resume (after a power cycle) and gapless playback. I haven't tried Vorbis playback via the CD deck yet (it's reported in another review elsewhere that it does not work) but I have noticed some occasional skipping on an MP3 CD that I've tested. It's only a single disc and occurs on a handful of files on the disc, which has also been subjected to some environmental extremes (inside my car in the summer sun plus all the humidity that can entail). I wouldn't really hold that against the JVC. It's the only disc I've tested in the unit so far. It's a decent unit...hopefully, they expand on the functionality in future models.
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themaiday
post Aug 8 2006, 23:31
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I just need a reliable vorbis car player. whaat about the 4 gigabyte border?
Does it spport vorbis via any smart card?

thanks again!
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vinnie97
post Aug 9 2006, 00:14
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I've only connected my 4GB Nano and 1GB Iaudio I5 to it with success thus far...it only has a USB port, so I'm not sure about this "smart card" you speak of (if you're referring to SD, CF or otherwise, then those *might* connect via a card reader). It will take USB flash drives (perhaps even portable hard drives). It's all down to the USB spec, the power requirements, etc. I don't have any large-capacity USB drives to check the supposed limit but I read in another review where even a 60GB drive was successfully connected and accessed in full.

This post has been edited by vinnie97: Aug 9 2006, 00:15
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themaiday
post Aug 9 2006, 20:34
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QUOTE (vinnie97 @ Aug 8 2006, 17:14) *
I don't have any large-capacity USB drives to check the supposed limit but I read in another review where even a 60GB drive was successfully connected and accessed in full.


Another review? Could you post the link pls?
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vinnie97
post Aug 10 2006, 02:36
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I didn't bookmark it. I found it through google....it may have been on Cnet.
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vinnie97
post Sep 8 2006, 04:46
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As another followup, I should mention that the JVC unit *does* resume when playing back files through a USB flash drive after a power cycle (I got a 1GB cheapie at Microcenter recently) ONLY if you don't physically disconnect it (thereby being a possible thief magnet) between said power cycles. The JVC seems to create a placeholder (either in its own memory or on the drive itself) that vanishes once the device is physically disconnected from the head unit. For anyone on the fence, this plays back q1 and q2-encoded Vorbis files (the only quality levels I've tested thus far) back flawlessly (just no gapless).

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