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Deutsche Grammophon selling DRM-free classical music online
Dologan
post Nov 29 2007, 23:26
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QUOTE (Kiteroa @ Nov 29 2007, 16:40) *
QUOTE (gorman @ Nov 30 2007, 06:50) *

QUOTE (gorman @ Nov 28 2007, 11:14) *

Any information on the encoder used? I could buy a song just to try and find out, but maybe somebody has already done that.
Nobody?



If you sign up you can download one track download free (from a limited "most-popular" list).

The track I chose (from Mozart's Die Zauberflöte, K.620 / Act 2 - "In diesen heil'gen Hallen") sounds really good- details are:

bitrate = 320
channels = 2
codec = MP3
codec_profile = CBR
encoding = lossy
mp3_stereo_mode = joint stereo
samplerate = 44100
tagtype = id3v2|id3v1
-----------------------
10904303 samples @ 44100Hz
(rounded samples : 10903872)
File size: 10,338,326 Bytes (9.86 MB)

You missed the most important detail: the encoder tongue.gif

Not that it makes much of a difference, though. While I am glad that they have made a step forward into the digital age and must applaud their decision to eschew DRM , I find it quite a shame that it wasn't a strong enough step for me to find it personally compelling.
First there is the horrible, horrible choice of format/settings that falls into that annoying limbo-gap between portability and archival. Nearly twice as big of what would be transparent, storage- and energy-friendly on portable devices and nearly half as large as would be considered flawless, bona fide archival quality. (Ok, maybe it's not that horrible, but still a poor choice...)
And then you have the price. I'm sorry, but €11-12 for something that isn't even the real thing is unreasonable for me. The expenses associated with digital transmission are negligible enough that asking for full retail price (or even higher) of a physical CD is just inexcusably greedy in my eyes. Set the price at €5 or less and I will listen. Then again, I'm just a poor student and I guess the more mature, deeper-pocketed and less p2p-savvyy primary audience of classical music is likely to shell out at that price.
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boombaard
post Nov 30 2007, 02:25
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QUOTE (Dologan @ Nov 30 2007, 00:26) *
QUOTE (Kiteroa @ Nov 29 2007, 16:40) *

QUOTE (gorman @ Nov 30 2007, 06:50) *

QUOTE (gorman @ Nov 28 2007, 11:14) *

Any information on the encoder used? I could buy a song just to try and find out, but maybe somebody has already done that.
Nobody?



If you sign up you can download one track download free (from a limited "most-popular" list).

The track I chose (from Mozart's Die Zauberflöte, K.620 / Act 2 - "In diesen heil'gen Hallen") sounds really good- details are:

bitrate = 320
channels = 2
codec = MP3
codec_profile = CBR
encoding = lossy
mp3_stereo_mode = joint stereo
samplerate = 44100
tagtype = id3v2|id3v1
-----------------------
10904303 samples @ 44100Hz
(rounded samples : 10903872)
File size: 10,338,326 Bytes (9.86 MB)

You missed the most important detail: the encoder tongue.gif


actually, this is just what foobar displays if it isn't a recent lame encoder wink.gif (it might be it also recognizes the itunes mp3 encoder, but...)
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JeanLuc
post Nov 30 2007, 07:01
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QUOTE (Dologan @ Nov 29 2007, 22:26) *
And then you have the price. I'm sorry, but €11-12 for something that isn't even the real thing is unreasonable for me.


I believe their offer is designed to especially draw customers' interests into the out-of-print-CD's ...

Most listeners of classical music will continue to buy CD's if these are accessible and/or easily available. For me, downloading MP3 music would be an alternative only for rare and out-of-print albums (and in that case, I'd be willing to pay the price, too).

Edit: typo

This post has been edited by JeanLuc: Nov 30 2007, 07:03


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Squeller
post Nov 30 2007, 08:29
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QUOTE (gorman @ Nov 29 2007, 19:50) *
QUOTE (gorman @ Nov 28 2007, 11:14) *
Any information on the encoder used? I could buy a song just to try and find out, but maybe somebody has already done that.
Nobody?

I've had a look at a file with a hex editor, didn't find a "lame" string and with a quick view at the beginning and end of file I didn't find any text that pointed me to an encoder... Don't know the mp3 file spec and what to look for though..

Kees: Yes, on the fly encoding is the best solution (for the consumer). And we know, it's possible (allofmp3).

This post has been edited by Squeller: Nov 30 2007, 08:37
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krabapple
post Nov 30 2007, 09:09
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QUOTE (JeanLuc @ Nov 30 2007, 01:01) *
QUOTE (Dologan @ Nov 29 2007, 22:26) *
And then you have the price. I'm sorry, but €11-12 for something that isn't even the real thing is unreasonable for me.


I believe their offer is designed to especially draw customers' interests into the out-of-print-CD's ...

Most listeners of classical music will continue to buy CD's if these are accessible and/or easily available. For me, downloading MP3 music would be an alternative only for rare and out-of-print albums (and in that case, I'd be willing to pay the price, too).

Edit: typo


It's exactly what I used it for today. Downloaded Kagel's 'Exotica/Tactil' (70 min) -- 1970s recordings only in print on CD for a few years in the mid-90s -- for $2.99. That's a bargain.

This post has been edited by krabapple: Nov 30 2007, 09:09
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Kees de Visser
post Nov 30 2007, 10:43
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QUOTE (krabapple @ Nov 30 2007, 10:09) *
Downloaded Kagel's 'Exotica/Tactil' (70 min) -- 1970s recordings only in print on CD for a few years in the mid-90s -- for $2.99. That's a bargain.
A bargain for sure.
BTW, have you noticed that the price is €2.99 (euro) or $2.99 (us dollar) depending on the country you select. With the actual exchange rate that's quite a difference !
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windowshade
post Dec 2 2007, 20:16
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QUOTE (gorman @ Nov 28 2007, 03:14) *
Any information on the encoder used? I could buy a song just to try and find out, but maybe somebody has already done that.
Mr. QuestionMan reports (rather ambiguously) "FhG".
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CiTay
post Dec 2 2007, 21:15
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QUOTE (windowshade @ Dec 2 2007, 20:16) *
Mr. QuestionMan reports (rather ambiguously) "FhG".


That would mean Fraunhofer Gesellschaft. They have an interesting feature by the way: The MP3 History
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outscape
post Dec 5 2007, 05:53
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probably a fhg encoder since no lame tag and lets be real no one uses xing or anything else. it's fastenc most likely. it's the only used fhg encoder for the past few years that's bundled with most commercial software. for me it's a stupid approach. why not just give people the option to download the original master? ok yes old people can't hear well anyway but it's the perfection that matters. plus you have the flexibility of encoding it any way you like with whatever you like should you wish to do it. still, given that dg is owned by universal music, a major label, it's refreshing to see them move more and more to drm-free music.


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Sarastro
post Dec 9 2007, 20:12
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I, like many others, am underwhelmed by the opportunity to purchase music on line in MP3 format. Hopefully, DG will rethink their marketing strategy.

In the meantime, discerning classical and jazz music listeners may purchase and download music in Studio Master FLAC (among other choices) from either of these sources:

http://www.musicgiants.com/
http://www.linnrecords.com/
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porky_pig_jr
post Dec 13 2007, 01:44
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QUOTE (Engywuck @ Nov 28 2007, 00:31) *
The files are encoded as 320 kBit/s MP3s, DRM-free, because Deutsche Grammophon thinks that fans of classical music have higher audio quality standards.


Deutsche Grammophon Webshop


I saw some interesting recordings overthere. But I prefer non-compressed files.

Incidently, you don't need to use any of the lossless compression formats. Simple compress the audio files as the regular data files, with zip or another commonly avaialble data file compressor. That should shrink them by about 50%. Download, uncompress, do whatever you want. I would mind to pay the price they charge - but not for compressed audio.
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Light-Fire
post Dec 13 2007, 01:57
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QUOTE (Sarastro @ Dec 9 2007, 14:12) *
I, like many others, am underwhelmed by the opportunity to purchase music on line in MP3 format. Hopefully, DG will rethink their marketing strategy...


I don't think you can hear the difference at all. But they are too expensive anyways.


QUOTE (porky_pig_jr @ Dec 12 2007, 19:44) *
...Incidently, you don't need to use any of the lossless compression formats. Simple compress the audio files as the regular data files, with zip or another commonly avaialble data file compressor....

It is easier and more efficient to use a lossless compression format than zip.
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DVDdoug
post Dec 13 2007, 03:23
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QUOTE
I've had a look at a file with a hex editor, didn't find a "lame" string
LAME is unlicensed, so it's not usually used by legitimate companies. If they used it, they might be sued by Fraunhofer/Thomson. (LAME itself is free and open source, but if you distribute a product based on it you are violating the Fraunhofer/Thomson patents.)

The LAME website states that LAME is to be used for educational purposes. I don't think you can get a compiled-working copy from the official website.... I believe you can only download the (uncompiled) source code (from the official site).

If you distribute the compiled code, you are supposed to pay royalities to Fraunhofer/Thomson. But, I don't know if any companies actually pay. Most of the time when you buy commercial software that works with LAME, the software manufacturer doesn't actually include LAME in the package. They tell you to go download it yourself. I've never seen a "fully licensed" version of LAME included with any software.

QUOTE
Simple compress the audio files as the regular data files, with zip or another commonly avaialble data file compressor....
Apparently that doesn't work very well. I've never tried it, but apparently the compression algortihms used for text don't work very well for audio. I've even read that sometimes the ZIP files come-out BIGGER than the WAV files!
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benski
post Dec 13 2007, 04:35
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QUOTE
If you distribute the compiled code, you are supposed to pay royalities to Fraunhofer/Thomson. But, I don't know if any companies actually pay. Most of the time when you buy commercial software that works with LAME, the software manufacturer doesn't actually include LAME in the package. They tell you to go download it yourself. I've never seen a "fully licensed" version of LAME included with any software.


We pay Thomson to use and include LAME in our software. I suspect that many other of the developers of for-cost audio software who roam this board do the same.
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DVDdoug
post Dec 14 2007, 00:23
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QUOTE
We pay Thomson to use and include LAME in our software. I suspect that many other of the developers of for-cost audio software who roam this board do the same.
Thank's for that information! It's good to know that there is a licensed version available.
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outscape
post Dec 18 2007, 06:42
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QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Dec 12 2007, 22:23) *
If you distribute the compiled code, you are supposed to pay royalities to Fraunhofer/Thomson. But, I don't know if any companies actually pay. Most of the time when you buy commercial software that works with LAME, the software manufacturer doesn't actually include LAME in the package. They tell you to go download it yourself. I've never seen a "fully licensed" version of LAME included with any software.

oh they pay indeed. wavelab, for example, is including lame for a few years now and the company (steinberg) pay royalties. if you're selling a commercial product giving the option to encode mp3 files you must pay. of course by using lame you can save money by not licensing the fhg fastenc code, which in recent years has become too expensive for some developers, hence why they opt to bundle lame instead of fastenc. pg, the author of wavelab, has actually stated this when they decided to go with lame in version 4 i believe.


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odious_m
post Dec 18 2007, 07:29
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QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Dec 12 2007, 21:23) *
LAME is unlicensed, so it's not usually used by legitimate companies. If they used it, they might be sued by Fraunhofer/Thomson.


Amazon.com must be quaking in their virtual boots then, as they use LAME exclusively for their mp3 downloads.
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fairyliquidizer
post Jan 16 2008, 10:53
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If it was in FLAC format I would stop buying CDs and start buying downloads. Still DG are going in the right direction.


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