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Maximum perceivable FPS, Split
penvzila
post Sep 18 2003, 04:02
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QUOTE (mmortal03 @ Sep 17 2003, 06:55 PM)
QUOTE (Audible! @ Sep 17 2003, 04:20 PM)
QUOTE
Do you know of any 3d games that have benchmarks that will output this value?

The Serious Sam games can output the FPS over time in timedemos I believe.
In the Unreal Tournament games, the stat fps command will give you a real-time output of the frame rate.

hmm, really what I meant was can any output the lowest frame rate met, not the average frame rate per second.

fraps


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streightedg
post Sep 18 2003, 04:44
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QUOTE (penvzila @ Sep 17 2003, 09:53 PM)
...Sort of reminds me of the people who say a 128CBR mp3 is good enough and anything more is overkill.

umm thanks dude...i resent that.

i might have said you "sort of remind me" of people that have made various clames about their hearing ability with respect to certain audio compression formats vs. CD, but i didn't.

but perhaps you are right...i retract my statement about anything over 60fps being overkill.

see you on the flip side.


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NeoRenegade
post Sep 18 2003, 05:02
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Think about this for a second. Electricity cycles at 50 or 60Hz depending on where you live. Lighting, indoor or outdoor, isn't typically filtered in any way as far as I know. And yet you don't see pulses in the lights.

I'd wager that in a relaxed state, nothing higher than 60Hz or so is required for a very natural feel to gaming or video - however, many games can incur fight-or-flight reactions sometimes, and for this reason, I think gaming sometimes requires maybe 90fps.
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penvzila
post Sep 18 2003, 05:43
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Actually some games set the monitor to 60hz, i was referring to a desktop environment in my comment about refresh rates. I defy anyone to look at a 60hz monitor for more than 5 minutes without some discomfort.,

This post has been edited by penvzila: Sep 18 2003, 05:43


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penvzila
post Sep 18 2003, 05:46
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QUOTE (streightedg @ Sep 17 2003, 07:44 PM)
QUOTE (penvzila @ Sep 17 2003, 09:53 PM)
...Sort of reminds me of the people who say a 128CBR mp3 is good enough and anything more is overkill.

umm thanks dude...i resent that.

i might have said you "sort of remind me" of people that have made various clames about their hearing ability with respect to certain audio compression formats vs. CD, but i didn't.

but perhaps you are right...i retract my statement about anything over 60fps being overkill.

see you on the flip side.

I dont mean to insult you. I certainly don't make any extraordinary claims about my senses. To the contrary, I have very acute hearing BUT am a terrible judege of audio quality/artifacts ect.... I use mpc because it encodes the fastest on my machine.

In retrospect, I don't really even think that audio compression and video game fps are very good to compare. My comments sometimes tend to incite and i apologize.


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KikeG
post Sep 18 2003, 07:56
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60 Hz monitor flicker is easy to tell from, say, 75 Hz flicker, even in a blind test. But I don't know if 60 fps can be told from 75 fps in a 75 Hz monitor.

Incandescent lights don't flicker, because they aren't less bright when crossing zero voltage, because they have too high temperature "inertia". Fluorescent lights are different, and it's not unusual to see flicker in one of these here in europe (50 Hz).
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_Shorty
post Sep 18 2003, 09:19
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fluorescent flicker can be pretty annoying here in North America, I can't imagine what it might be like in 50Hz areas, yikes, never thought of that.
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streightedg
post Sep 18 2003, 14:25
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why is it that you notice the flickering of computer monitors more if you look slightly to the side of it, as opposed to directly on?


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sthayashi
post Sep 18 2003, 15:54
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QUOTE (streightedg @ Sep 18 2003, 05:25 AM)
why is it that you notice the flickering of computer monitors more if you look slightly to the side of it, as opposed to directly on?

IIRC, I believe that human peripheral vision is motion-sensitive.

I think it was in Jurassic Park where they make mention of a dinosaur that can only see you if you move/run. Our peripheral vision (vision out the side) is like that. It's speculated that we evolved like that so that we could be more aware of dangers that approach us.

Now that we're civilized, we can use it to determine if the refresh frequency of a monitor is above 60Hz or not laugh.gif
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phong
post Sep 18 2003, 17:43
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Also, human vision off-center is significantly more sensitive to brightness variations (but less sensitive to details). Astronomers use a technique called "averted vision" to see very dim objects through a telescope. In any given aperature, some dim objects are impossible or very difficult to see when looking straight at them, but looking just to the side, they become quite visible. Google for "blinking nebula" for an example.


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smok3
post Sep 18 2003, 22:00
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just a comment about flickering vs motion:
there are 2 different frequencies, one is called 'enough fps to give the impression of motion' and another is 'enough fps to disable flickering'.

(old example: films shot at 24fps are actualy shown at 24x2 or 24x3 to remove the flickering in cinemas.)

QUOTE
and it's not unusual to see flicker in one of these here in europe (50 Hz).
yes, they are usualy in contra-sync so to get 100 Hz, but when things go wrong...

QUOTE
In any case, I remember an article/post claiming that the frame rate also affected the physics of a virtual world. It was never clear to me how exactly that was possible, particularly in a multi-player battle.
with my limited experience with some 3d apps that actually did the collision detection there was usually a separated unit of time - 'something like mimium delta time between calculations', so you would higher that when the objects would look through each other when colliding...., uhm, so in case that value is the same as fps that could happen. <offtopic> i have also seen a game when you get killed only in replay, but that counts as real end... tongue.gif </offtopic>

This post has been edited by smok3: Sep 18 2003, 22:09


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PANIC: CPU 1: Cache Error (unrecoverable - dcache data) Eframe = 0x90000000208cf3b8
NOTICE - cpu 0 didn't dump TLB, may be hung
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Audible!
post Sep 18 2003, 23:25
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QUOTE
fraps

FRAPS is not exactly the highest accuracy, being a third party proggie and so forth. It produces quite repeatable results anyway, IIRC. I believe aceshardware uses FRAPS to test certain newer games.
The Serious Sam timedemo funciton will give you the minimum FPS as well.
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