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Need True Bit Perfect Digital Out Lap Top
Glenda
post Nov 27 2007, 01:10
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I listen to HDCD encoded music from my computer. It is connected to my HDCD DAC via toslink.
I currently have great success withy my EMU 0404 and its ASIO drivers.

I want to set up another system with a laptop. It must have true bit perfect digital oupt. No replies like this : "I'm using KS or ASIO and I have bit perfect without ever testing it."

The only way to know if you have bit perfect from your computer is by playing a DTS or HDCD wave or flac file and seeing your DAC acknowledge it by displaying DTS or HDCD. If you haven't done that you don't know if you have bit perfect audio. I have seen both ASIO and KS fail this test.


So what PCMCIA or USB sound card guarantees a bit perfect digital output ?
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AndyH-ha
post Nov 27 2007, 06:04
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If you are already happy with Emu, there is the 0202 USB and 0404 USB.
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digital
post Nov 27 2007, 13:15
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.
I believe that the benchmark DAC-1 USB Edition is said to guarantee a bit-perfect reproduction.

Andrew D.
www.cdnav.com

http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac1



.
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Glenda
post Nov 27 2007, 16:28
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QUOTE (digital @ Nov 27 2007, 07:15) *
.
I believe that the benchmark DAC-1 USB Edition is said to guarantee a bit-perfect reproduction.

Andrew D.
www.cdnav.com

http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac1



.




NO HDCD the whole purpose of this thread.
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EliasGwinn
post Nov 28 2007, 16:15
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QUOTE (Glenda @ Nov 27 2007, 10:28) *
http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac1





NO HDCD the whole purpose of this thread.


The DAC1 USB will bit-transparently receive and convert all 20-bits of HDCD data.

Are you playing the HDCD's on your computer directly from the CD?

Thanks,
Elias


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Alex B
post Nov 28 2007, 16:57
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Probably Benchmark DAC1 USB has a very good DAC and a bit perfect signal path before the DAC, but the OP specifically asked information about bit perfect digital output to his existing DAC. I understand that the intention is to be able to decode any 16/44.1 pcm stream that contains HDCD code on an external HDCD decoder. If I have understood correctly DAC1 USB is not designed to handle that.

I am not giving any guarantees, but for example the relatively inexpensive M-Audio Transit USB and Edirol UA-1EX USB sound devices are known to be able to handle bit perfect digital pass through at 44.1 kHz. Of course this depends on many factors, starting from the used OS and SW setup.

Usually 48 kHz is easier. I can transmit undecoded 48 khz DTS and DVD video soundtracks succesfully to an external decoder using the optical output of the standard integrated sound device on my 5-year old Fujitsu Siemens laptop.

Edit: typo

This post has been edited by Alex B: Nov 28 2007, 17:37


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Glenda
post Nov 28 2007, 22:11
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QUOTE (Alex B @ Nov 28 2007, 10:57) *
Probably Benchmark DAC1 USB has a very good DAC and a bit perfect signal path before the DAC, but the OP specifically asked information about bit perfect digital output to his existing DAC. I understand that the intention is to be able to decode any 16/44.1 pcm stream that contains HDCD code on an external HDCD decoder. If I have understood correctly DAC1 USB is not designed to handle that.


Edit: typo



Yes this is what I need to do, I no the DAC1 will not decode HDCD. I am sucessful with my desk top and an EMU 0404 --> AA DDE 1.2 (HDCD DAC). I ordered a UCA202 for $30 to use with the laptop. USB -> SPDIF and ASIO2 support. I'll post my finding.
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EliasGwinn
post Nov 29 2007, 22:00
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QUOTE (Glenda @ Nov 28 2007, 16:11) *
QUOTE (Alex B @ Nov 28 2007, 10:57) *

Probably Benchmark DAC1 USB has a very good DAC and a bit perfect signal path before the DAC, but the OP specifically asked information about bit perfect digital output to his existing DAC. I understand that the intention is to be able to decode any 16/44.1 pcm stream that contains HDCD code on an external HDCD decoder. If I have understood correctly DAC1 USB is not designed to handle that.


Edit: typo



Yes this is what I need to do, I no the DAC1 will not decode HDCD. I am sucessful with my desk top and an EMU 0404 --> AA DDE 1.2 (HDCD DAC). I ordered a UCA202 for $30 to use with the laptop. USB -> SPDIF and ASIO2 support. I'll post my finding.


Oh, ok. I misunderstood the OP. My apologies...

Thanks,
Elias

btw/fyi, in the last post, you mentioned that the DAC1 USB will not decode HDCD. This is not true. The DAC1 USB will decode HDCD properly. Good luck on your search...


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Glenda
post Nov 29 2007, 22:36
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QUOTE (EliasGwinn @ Nov 29 2007, 16:00) *
QUOTE (Glenda @ Nov 28 2007, 16:11) *

QUOTE (Alex B @ Nov 28 2007, 10:57) *

Probably Benchmark DAC1 USB has a very good DAC and a bit perfect signal path before the DAC, but the OP specifically asked information about bit perfect digital output to his existing DAC. I understand that the intention is to be able to decode any 16/44.1 pcm stream that contains HDCD code on an external HDCD decoder. If I have understood correctly DAC1 USB is not designed to handle that.


Edit: typo



Yes this is what I need to do, I no the DAC1 will not decode HDCD. I am sucessful with my desk top and an EMU 0404 --> AA DDE 1.2 (HDCD DAC). I ordered a UCA202 for $30 to use with the laptop. USB -> SPDIF and ASIO2 support. I'll post my finding.


Oh, ok. I misunderstood the OP. My apologies...

Thanks,
Elias

btw/fyi, in the last post, you mentioned that the DAC1 USB will not decode HDCD. This is not true. The DAC1 USB will decode HDCD properly. Good luck on your search...




Complete misinformation. You don't even know what decoding HDCD means with a post like this.
All the DAC1 does is play HDCD's at 16 bit as every other DAC that hasn't paid for the HDCD licensed filter does.
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EliasGwinn
post Nov 30 2007, 15:30
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Glenda,

We recently tested the DAC1 USB to determine if it was operating with all 20-bits of HDCD information or only 16-bits, as you mentioned. We tested this by playing a HDCD (via CD-ROM) with Windows Media Player 11 (WMP). We monitored the digital information coming from the USB interface on the DAC1 USB. Using a scope to monitor the data line (triggered by the L/R clock), we are able to clearly determine how many active bits are being streamed to the DAC1 USB. In the setup with the HDCD and WMP11, it was clear that 20-bits were present on the data line. We then played a non-HDCD (standard Redbook CD), and it was streaming 16-bits, as expected. These modes of operation are determined (enabled and/or limited) by the source (media player), not the DAC1 USB.

One caveat is that, when ripped to the harddrive, HDCD tracks will not play in HDCD mode (20-bits). It will always stream @ 16-bit in this case. Another interesting fact: after ripping HDCD to the hard-drive (WMA-Lossless or WAV), then re-burning it to CD, it will once again have all of the HDCD information! In other words, we could play the burnt CD w/ WMP11 and once again receive all 20-bits!!

I think the confusion about HDCD licensing, etc, is based on the fact that Windows Media Player has the license to decode HDCD. WMP will then send all 20-bits via USB to the DAC1 USB. In other words, it is not a question of whether the DAC1 USB can convert complete HDCD information, it is a question of whether the source (media player/CD-transport/etc.) can read all 20-bits and stream them correctly to the DAC1 USB. If the source can read and stream the HDCD information from the disc, the DAC1 USB can correctly operate with the full bit-resolution of HDCD encoded material.

Thanks,
Elias

ps. I understand that this may not answer the OP, but I simply wanted to clarify any misunderstandings.


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Glenda
post Nov 30 2007, 15:34
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QUOTE (EliasGwinn @ Nov 30 2007, 09:30) *
Glenda,

We recently tested the DAC1 USB to determine if it was operating with all 20-bits of HDCD information or only 16-bits, as you mentioned. We tested this by playing a HDCD (via CD-ROM) with Windows Media Player 11 (WMP).




That because WMP has the HDCD decoder in it ! Tha DAC1 is not doing the decoding!

While you are playing look at the HDCD logo on the bottom of WMP.

WMP will not decode HDCD from a hardrive file only CD's.

A true HDCD DAC like my Audio Alchemy DDE v1.2 will decode HDCD from any CDP or any Hardrive played file as long as the computer soundcard is bit perfect.

I could post some links if you would like an education in HDCD.

This post has been edited by Glenda: Nov 30 2007, 15:36
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EliasGwinn
post Nov 30 2007, 15:47
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QUOTE (Glenda @ Nov 30 2007, 09:34) *
That because WMP has the HDCD decoder in it ! Tha DAC1 is not doing the decoding!

While you are playing look at the HDCD logo on the bottom of WMP.

WMP will not decode HDCD from a hardrive file only CD's.


You are correct. I suppose I misspoke when I said the DAC1 USB will decode HDCD information. The correct statement is: full-resolution, 20-bit HDCD playback is possible with the DAC1 USB (and an HDCD-decoding source); it is NOT limited to 16-bit playback with HDCD.

Thanks,
Elias

QUOTE (Glenda @ Nov 30 2007, 09:34) *
I could post some links if you would like an education in HDCD.


I'm always interested in acquiring more information. Please post your links.

Thanks,
Elias

This post has been edited by EliasGwinn: Nov 30 2007, 16:56


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spoon
post Nov 30 2007, 16:19
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>HDCD's at 16 bit as every other DAC that hasn't paid for the HDCD licensed filter does.

I think Microsoft realized that HDCD is/was a non-starter, they put very little effort into it. There is a software HDCD decoder around...

HDCD: Now leap-frogged by DVD-A and SACD, even these 2 are in doubt as to long term appeal (they might inturn be leap-frogged by the internet, high resolution audio is quite speciallized, online cateloges are going DRM free, doesn't take much for them to realize there is a sack of cash for doing nothing, ie put a 24 bit lossless file up and charge 4x for it).


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