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Banished from Computer Audiophile
prufrock
post Jul 4 2012, 14:09
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QUOTE (dhromed @ Jul 4 2012, 09:57) *
QUOTE (prufrock @ Jul 3 2012, 22:41) *
Its a funny place over there. Many posters have their cables and interconnects proudly listed at the bottom of their posts. They often talk about them with passion and conviction.


Jewellery. Expensive stuff to display their affluence and social status. Nothing more, nothing less.


Its all a bit scary. I feel lucky to have escaped. You dont have to list all your gear under your post here do you?.
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greynol
post Jul 4 2012, 14:57
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The length of signatures is limited in order to prevent such silliness.

This post has been edited by greynol: Jul 4 2012, 14:58


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YOUR EYES CANNOT HEAR!!!!!!!!!!!
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2Bdecided
post Jul 4 2012, 15:13
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From the other place...

"I see that prufrock has had a very warm welcome over at Hydrogen Audio"

"I am so glad that prufrock has a found a place where his viewpoint will be reinforced... I am
sure those folks will prove that cables do not matter at all."

Bless 'Em. We don't need to try.

"I am not saying DBT's have no value and the issues they attempt to address are not real. I am simply saying for some reason in audio there is a group that harp on about them but in other settings people accept the results of tests of a less rigorous nature. It wouldn't be so bad if not for the fact DBT's to the standard of the naysayers are difficult, costly and time consuming to set up. And to make matters worse when a DBT does not go their way I have even seen it where rather than accept it they try to find flaws in the methodology. One can't help but get the feeling they are not after the truth but merely want confirmation of preconceived ideas."

It's really simple. Statistically significant DBT results in a fair test would prove an audible difference in that test. It's never happened with cables that measure "the same". The rational conclusion is that they sound the same - even if you can create a placebo inducing sighted test to convince your ears otherwise.

The idea that people here don't listen is kind of ironic, given that a single DBT requires more careful listening (not watching, not assuming, not wallowing in the marketing/size/colour/reputation - just listening) than some people do in their lifetime.

Remember that. Most people have never listened without prejudice. Most people have never listened without knowing what they were listening to. Yet despite decades of research proving that you can't be an unbiased listener like this, they still think their opinion should be listened to.

Scary. Good job medicine isn't allowed to work like this any more!

Cheers,
David.

This post has been edited by 2Bdecided: Jul 4 2012, 15:16
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dhromed
post Jul 4 2012, 15:55
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QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jul 4 2012, 16:13) *
they still think their opinion should be listened to.


Have you ever successfully ABX'd these opinions?
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prufrock
post Jul 4 2012, 16:42
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Scary more so given that quite a few of look like professional types. Doctors, lawyers, academics etc. I only ever went onto their site to get some help with DACs, DDCs, Laptops, player software etc for computer audio. The deluded appeared and then you have a choice: ignore it and by proxy condone it: or reality test and cop the flack.
That place is a living breathing example of how intelligence/privilege alone doesn't keep you safe from woolly thinking. The status thing seems to encourage intellectual arrogance that makes them even more susceptible.

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thesurfingalien
post Jul 4 2012, 22:13
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While I mostly agree with pufrock's post & points of view on CA, I also like honesty. For the record and if this has not changed recently, I would like to mention that pufrock has not been banned or banished from CA. Here is what Chris C. writes:

QUOTE
Hi prufrock - After reading, and removing, your post about Scientology and Scientologists it's very obvious you have a major axe to grind with many people who think differently than you. Your goal of saving newbies from purchasing a product you don't like or don't believe in is the identical front 99% of people in your shoes hide behind.

I believe Hydrogen Audio is the perfect place for you to express yourself, minus the religious statements.

I always encourage opposing views here at CA. But your abrasive argumentative tone and facade of saving people from themselves (who likely don't want to be "saved") is getting old. Everything discussed in this thread has been discussed countless times in other threads here on CA and dozens of other sites. No new ground has been covered in this very strangely titled thread. Covering new ground isn't a prerequisite for continuing threads here at CA but when your goal is to talk newbies into believing what you believe purhaps you should mention items that they haven't read several times. There is no way a newbie can read this thread and glean anything helpful. It's much more likely you've just rallied your base and vice versa.

Your idea to write a blog summary of this could be helpful. But, as all of the ideas and beliefs discussed here have been discussed many many times, you could have used Google to find all this information and all the old arguments in less than 0.002 seconds.

If you're here at CA to contribute or learn something I encourage you to stay and help grow this wonderful community dedicated to our wonderful hobby. If your motives are antithetical to contributing and learning you can move on to another site.


Regardless of what anyone might think of CA, I fail to see why one should post rather immature messages on this forum, even though the local crowd might nod their heads in agreement.

Sorry pufrock, but his type of behavior makes no sense to me and is quite disappointing!

Peter



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JJZolx
post Jul 4 2012, 22:41
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QUOTE (thesurfingalien @ Jul 4 2012, 15:13) *
Regardless of what anyone might think of CA, I fail to see why one should post rather immature messages on this forum, even though the local crowd might nod their heads in agreement.


That's been the only requirement in the past. You can post anything you like when everyone agrees with you.
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thesurfingalien
post Jul 4 2012, 22:44
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QUOTE (JJZolx @ Jul 4 2012, 19:41) *
QUOTE (thesurfingalien @ Jul 4 2012, 15:13) *
Regardless of what anyone might think of CA, I fail to see why one should post rather immature messages on this forum, even though the local crowd might nod their heads in agreement.


That's been the only requirement in the past. You can post anything you like when everyone agrees with you.


But does that make one's posting all "A-OK"? I (obviously) have another opinion smile.gif...
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DARcode
post Jul 4 2012, 22:57
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Yawn... pufrock should get out more, period.


--------------------
WavPack 4.70.0 -b384hx6cmv/qaac 2.41 -V 100
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prufrock
post Jul 4 2012, 23:05
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QUOTE (Batman321 @ Jul 4 2012, 01:48) *
I was dumped from Steve Hoffman forum for being too skeptical about Barry Diament and his 'audiophile' products.


Audioquest advertise on CA. If you go to the CA C.A.S.H list ( Hardware) you find links to Hardware sites and reviews. Nothing on cables though. If you need to find out anything regarding them, you ask on the forum. Fortunately there are plenty there only too willing to help you in this regard.

Who are the sponsors here?
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db1989
post Jul 4 2012, 23:16
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QUOTE (JJZolx @ Jul 4 2012, 22:41) *
QUOTE (thesurfingalien @ Jul 4 2012, 15:13) *
Regardless of what anyone might think of CA, I fail to see why one should post rather immature messages on this forum, even though the local crowd might nod their heads in agreement.
That's been the only requirement in the past. You can post anything you like when everyone agrees with you.
To quote DARcode, “Yawn...” JJZolx takes another opportunity to whine about HA in a way that is just vague enough that no actual argument need be advanced.
Yes, how awful that a forum about common interests should occasionally converge upon common opinions!

QUOTE (prufrock @ Jul 4 2012, 23:05) *
Who are the sponsors here?
There are none. The most Hydrogenaudio has had was ads by Google, but it no longer does.
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prufrock
post Jul 4 2012, 23:31
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[/quote]There are none.
[/quote]

That's a shame. I wont be able to click on Audioquest and dream about that pair of $58,800 cables presently on offer.
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JJZolx
post Jul 4 2012, 23:50
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QUOTE (db1989 @ Jul 4 2012, 16:16) *
JJZolx takes another opportunity to whine about HA in a way that is just vague enough that no actual argument need be advanced.


What I stated is pretty much true of any forum. HA is no better or worse.
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thesurfingalien
post Jul 5 2012, 00:04
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QUOTE (prufrock @ Jul 4 2012, 20:05) *
Audioquest advertise on CA. If you go to the CA C.A.S.H list ( Hardware) you find links to Hardware sites and reviews. Nothing on cables though. If you need to find out anything regarding them, you ask on the forum. Fortunately there are plenty there only too willing to help you in this regard.

Who are the sponsors here?



What is it that makes sponsoring so evil? Anyone that can do the math on 1+1=2 can see that CA is making money out of site-sponsoring. It is the way Chris Conaker makes money, and I can see nothing wrong with that. In fact, I can only admire Chris for being able to turn a hobby into something that provides an income, allows him to travel around to various audio-shows, run the site and write reviews. Good for him!

As for the reviews on CA... They are just like any other review in magazines. Personally I place doubts in any review of any audio-gear done by all reviewers. Simply because I have no knowledge of their "state" while reviewing or writing down their experiences. Maybe they have been partying too hard last night, had a fight with their wife or girlfriend... Or maybe they had the best sex they had in years the night before, or won the megabucks lottery.

The common thought here is that well-constructed gear all sounds the same, so it is not a strange thought that reviews one reads anywhere are mostly based on the previously mentioned "state" of a reviewer.

Peter
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extrabigmehdi
post Jul 5 2012, 01:54
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This prufrock is a quite funny guy , posting at hydrogenaudio that he was been banned at computer audiophile,
and posting at computer audiophile he was banned at hydrogenaudio.

Just a screenshot, in case the guy decide to edit his post meanwhile lalala.gif



And the link to the post:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-gener...html#post166216

So, who is laughing now ?
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andy o
post Jul 5 2012, 01:57
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QUOTE (prufrock @ Jul 4 2012, 08:42) *
Scary more so given that quite a few of look like professional types. Doctors, lawyers, academics etc.
You'd be surprised how many engineers and lawyers believe the earth (and the universe!) is less than 10,000 years old. The "God Hates F*gs" hateful family sect is full of lawyers, for example. You don't even need to be a professional scientist, only have a minimum amount of knowledge of how science works, which unfortunately most people don't.

QUOTE
That place is a living breathing example of how intelligence/privilege alone doesn't keep you safe from woolly thinking. The status thing seems to encourage intellectual arrogance that makes them even more susceptible.

It's called the Dunning-Kruger effect.
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andy o
post Jul 5 2012, 02:06
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QUOTE (extrabigmehdi @ Jul 4 2012, 17:54) *
This prufrock is a quite funny guy , posting at hydrogenaudio that he was been banned at computer audiophile,
and posting at computer audiophile he was banned at hydrogenaudio.

Just a screenshot, in case the guy decide to edit his post meanwhile lalala.gif

http://i50.tinypic.com/m7s1t3.jpg

And the link to the post:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-gener...html#post166216

So, who is laughing now ?

You misunderstand. He said "banished to" HA, as opposed to the title of this thread "banished from Computer Audiophile". Also, notice he's asking if we're a bunch of girlie men, which really, I don't see how that would matter.

This post has been edited by andy o: Jul 5 2012, 02:07
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hellokeith
post Jul 5 2012, 03:05
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Hypothetically, would a thread here in HA GA that was criticizing a thread at AVSforum about expensive component video cables, still be in GA?

I guess what I'm saying is that I think we're really stretching the definition of general audio..
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greynol
post Jul 5 2012, 06:57
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It's not and will be moved after I finish this post.

This post has been edited by greynol: Jul 5 2012, 22:34


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YOUR EYES CANNOT HEAR!!!!!!!!!!!
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db1989
post Jul 5 2012, 10:18
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As andy o said, extrabigmehdi misunderstood prufrock’s post; he wasn’t telling CA an analogous story about being banned by HA.

QUOTE (andy o @ Jul 5 2012, 02:06) *
Also, notice he's asking if we're a bunch of girlie men, which really, I don't see how that would matter.
I seem to recall him saying that he called CA “girlie men” after getting frustrated with them, so I guess that’s just him continuing the, er, joke.

Finally:
QUOTE (Daudio)
Here is some sample text from the 'Listening Tests' subforum:

"all the usual bull those of the golden ear persuasion come up with"
Envy is a terrible thing, right? I guess that’s how woo-heads reassure themselves that they’re right and that they’re too intelligent to stoop to the level of actually substantiating their opinions. It’s a funny world where “golden ear”, presumably implying good and/or trained hearing, can be used as an insult without voluntary irony on the part of the person speaking.
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prufrock
post Jul 5 2012, 15:59
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thesurfingalien:

"Regardless of what anyone might think of CA, I fail to see why one should post rather immature messages on this forum, even though the local crowd might nod their heads in agreement.
Sorry pufrock, but his type of behavior makes no sense to me and is quite disappointing!
Peter "

... immature? Sorry, I was just trying to be funny. The girlie- men was just a poke at that great Actor and Statesman, Arnold Schwarzwartenegger. I am no homophobe. Drongo is an Australian term for idiot, but you would have to be from there to appreciate all the connotations.

"What is it that makes sponsoring so evil? Anyone that can do the math on 1+1=2 can see that CA is making money out of site-sponsoring. It is the way Chris Conaker makes money, and I can see nothing wrong with that. In fact, I can only admire Chris for being able to turn a hobby into something that provides an income, allows him to travel around to various audio-shows, run the site and write reviews. Good for him!"

I don't have a problem with advertising. Its more about leadership, guidance and credibility. When he told me to
get off his site, the main reason given was that the topic I was discussing, (the cable/interconnect scam), was old and tired and had been covered many times. Why then is there nothing in the Hardware section on his site that deals with problem? If this was a constant and recurring issue, why not some guidance for the punters instead of just chucking them in with the sharks? I could write such a section in a few minutes. All it needs is a few words steering them away from expensive cables/interconnects and towards things that matter like speakers, room correction etc.
If you had a site like that, wouldn't you want to be guiding and protecting newcomers from the scammers?
His assertion that I was abrasive and argumentative is garbage. I only ever play the ball, not the man. I never respond to personal attacks.
No, basically he wanted me off the site because I was digging into the whole cable scam. Audioquest wouldn't like that. It might affect sales of their select speaker cable line at $58,800 a pair.

You are welcome to his site. It stinks.




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greynol
post Jul 5 2012, 22:53
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FWIW, "Chris" tried being a member of our community. While he stopped posting before too long, he's still free to post here.

Anyway, while looking through previous discussions I ran across this one for giggles:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=11442

This post has been edited by greynol: Jul 5 2012, 22:59


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prufrock
post Jul 6 2012, 19:44
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Cheers for the link. A great thread with some very well argued points. Had no idea this place existed. Was beginning to think all audio land was stuffed full of wooheads (love that term)

Many new/inexperienced over at CA are getting a raw deal. I am a noob as well, but have a background in other areas that enabled me to cut through the bull. There are some very good posters over there, but they are burnt out and overwhelmed by the sheer volume of rubbish. The woolly thinkers have very loud and frequent voices. No attempt is made to curtail their nonsense. Just keep the sponsor happy and sell more cables.

Anyhow I'll shutup for a while and do some site reading. Looks to be plenty of good stuff on offer. Thanks for the welcome.



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AliceWonder
post Jul 21 2012, 18:48
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QUOTE (prufrock @ Jul 5 2012, 07:59) *
The girlie- men was just a poke at that great Actor and Statesman, Arnold Schwarzwartenegger. I am no homophobe.


Just an off-topic note. Many (possibly even most) of us who sometimes engage in some form of cross dressing and would be referred to as `girlie-men' are actually heterosexual.
It's a very common mis-conception.
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prufrock
post Jul 27 2012, 04:30
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Metrosexuals, sweet transvestites, its all good mate. The link below gives a good definition of a girlie-man.

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=arnold+s...29,r:0,s:0,i:70

What's not good though are Woo-Heads. Have almost completed the debriefing/deprogramming from that other site. Feeling almost normal again.
Its a weird experience eh. It was like going to an auto shop to get a vehicle part and being taken aside by a salesman who hits you with a whole heap of bizarro BS: "Sir, we can certainly sell you that cheap accelerator cable, but if you want truly great performance, this $1000 state of the art one is well worth it."

I mean if you went onto a homoeopathy or some new age website you would expect some weirdness. But all I wanted was advice on some machine parts.

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