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AAC@128kbps listening test - CLOSED, Everyone is invited
rjamorim
post Jun 4 2003, 22:53
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I just started a new public listening test.
Addition: a specific web site for the test has been created: http://rarewares.hydrogenaudio.org/test/

The purpose is to find what encoder performs best encoding AAC at 128kbps

The encoders and parameters tested are:
Psytel AACenc 2.15 -br 128
Ahead/Nero 5.5.10.35 128kbps CBR, high quality
Sorenson Squeeze 3.5 (FhG Pro) 128kbps
Apple QuickTime 6.3 (Dolby) 128kbps high quality
FAAC 1.17b -a 64 (64kbps/channel)

--Who should take the test?

Anyone interested in AAC quality, or people that have no interest but would like to help making this test better.
You don't need excellent hearing, but some good gear is welcome (headphones are must-have).

--How do I take the test?

Download ABC/HR + the readme file here or here. If you already have ABC/HR, get the readme here.
Further instructions, and links to the sample packages, are inside the readme.

For people using BitTorrent: I strongly suggest you download using it.
The torrents are available here:
http://static.hydrogenaudio.org/extra/AACTest/
It would help me save bandwidth and you will probably download faster too smile.gif

The average size of the sample packages is 4Mb. It sums to 47Mb, all the 12 packages.

Edit: For those that already downloaded packages, read here

--I'm on Linux/MacOS/something other than Windows. Can I take the test?

You can. But you won't be able to use the ABC/HR utility, that is Win32 only. Since the reference file must be hidden (That's the HR in the name), tests performed without it wouldn't be valid. So, I can't plot your scores against others. But your comments on sample quality and artifacts would still be welcome.

--When will the test finish?

The test is scheduled to end on June 15. This date may be extended if proved necessary.

If you have any other question, please post in this thread.

Thank-you very much,

Roberto.

This post has been edited by JohnV: Jun 10 2003, 01:36


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rjamorim
post Jun 4 2003, 22:55
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Just something I think should be clarified:

Don't post your test results before the test is finished

For several reasons, that practice would be harmful to the test.

Thanks for understanding.


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Frank Klemm
post Jun 4 2003, 23:28
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Why are links nearly invisible? I setup Mozilla to display links as underlined blue text, but in HA it is only underlined and
gray like the rest of the text.

This post has been edited by Frank Klemm: Jun 4 2003, 23:33


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rjamorim
post Jun 4 2003, 23:37
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QUOTE (Frank Klemm @ Jun 4 2003 - 07:28 PM)
Why are links nearly invisible? I setup Mozilla to display links as underlined blue text, but in HA it is only underlined and
gray like the rest of the text.

Here are the full links, if someone is having problem with the "here"s

ABC/HR: http://pessoal.onda.com.br/rjamorim/abc-hr.zip or
http://audio.ciara.us/rarewares/abc-hr.zip

Readme: http://pessoal.onda.com.br/rjamorim/Readme.txt


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Dibrom
post Jun 4 2003, 23:57
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.torrent's of all the files:

http://static.hydrogenaudio.org/extra/AACTest/
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JohnV
post Jun 5 2003, 00:10
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QUOTE (Dibrom @ Jun 5 2003 - 01:57 AM)

A BitTorrent client is really a simple plugin application that enables your Windows, OS/X, or Unix/Linux machine to participate in swarms. These swarms of traffic facilitate file sharing.

The simplest .torrent client for Windows:
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/bittorr....1.exe?download
Just install it and you should be able to download from the torrent links using your browser.

More advanced client:
http://btplusplus.sourceforge.net/


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Dibrom
post Jun 5 2003, 00:12
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QUOTE (JohnV @ Jun 4 2003 - 04:10 PM)
QUOTE (Dibrom @ Jun 5 2003 - 01:57 AM)

A BitTorrent client is really a simple plugin application that enables your Windows, OS/X, or Unix/Linux machine to participate in swarms. These swarms of traffic facilitate file sharing.

The simplest .torrent client for Windows:
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/bittorr....1.exe?download
Just install it and you should be able to download from the torrent links.

Oh, and if you want to do this and help share the bandwidth burden, please leave the download client open after it finishes. This creates a torrent "seed" which is what helps to propogate the file throughout the swarm. The more seeds, the faster everyone downloads.

If you want to create a perminent "mirror" of the files without having 12 seperate download boxes open, you can either download: http://btplusplus.sourceforge.net/ and point the incoming dir to where your .torrents are, then attempt to start downloading them again (overwritting the old ones), and this will create seeds and share the files. The other option is to download the bittorrent sources ( http://bitconjurer.org/BitTorrent/download.html ), making sure to have python installed on your system, and launch "btlaunchmany.py <somedir>" or "btlaunchmanycurses.py <somedir>" on the dir with all the .torrents.

This post has been edited by Dibrom: Jun 5 2003, 00:43
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SometimesWarrior
post Jun 5 2003, 00:52
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Any way to provide a random link generator (of the 13 .torrent's) so that all the samples get an equal number of tests?

Also, are these .torrent's the only way to download the files right now?
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SometimesWarrior
post Jun 5 2003, 00:59
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QUOTE (Dibrom @ Jun 4 2003 - 04:12 PM)
If you want to create a perminent "mirror" of the files without having 12 seperate download boxes open, you can either download: http://btplusplus.sourceforge.net/ and point the incoming dir to where your .torrents are, then attempt to start downloading them again (overwritting the old ones), and this will create seeds and share the files. 

I downloaded BT++ v0.5.4, set the Incoming dir to where the .torrent's already are, did Add Torrent -> from URL (and pasted the ha.org url), but nothing seemed to happen when I clicked OK. Nothing listed under Transfers or History. Will this program work properly if I'm behind a firewall, or do I have to open some ports?
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rjamorim
post Jun 5 2003, 01:02
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QUOTE (SometimesWarrior @ Jun 4 2003 - 08:52 PM)
Any way to provide a random link generator (of the 13 .torrent's) so that all the samples get an equal number of tests?


Unfortunately, I think it's too late now to come with such solution. Hopefully, people will pick up samples randomly, and whenever possible pick them all.

BTW, there are 12 torrents. wink.gif

QUOTE
Also, are these .torrent's the only way to download the files right now?


The links to download the .zip files form a server are inside the readme file.

This post has been edited by rjamorim: Jun 5 2003, 01:04


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Dibrom
post Jun 5 2003, 01:09
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QUOTE (SometimesWarrior @ Jun 4 2003 - 04:59 PM)
QUOTE (Dibrom @ Jun 4 2003 - 04:12 PM)
If you want to create a perminent "mirror" of the files without having 12 seperate download boxes open, you can either download: http://btplusplus.sourceforge.net/ and point the incoming dir to where your .torrents are, then attempt to start downloading them again (overwritting the old ones), and this will create seeds and share the files. 

I downloaded BT++ v0.5.4, set the Incoming dir to where the .torrent's already are, did Add Torrent -> from URL (and pasted the ha.org url), but nothing seemed to happen when I clicked OK. Nothing listed under Transfers or History. Will this program work properly if I'm behind a firewall, or do I have to open some ports?

You need to open some ports probably (from the faq: http://bitconjurer.org/BitTorrent/FAQ.html ):

QUOTE
I'm behind a firewall/NAT, can I use BitTorrent?

    Yes, but you will get better performance if other peers can connect to you. By default, BitTorrent listens on port 6881, trying incrementially higher ports if it's unable to bind. It gives up after 6889 (the port range is configurable.) It's up to you to figure out how to poke a hole in your firewall/NAT.


For more info you might try:

http://www.filesoup.com/faq.html

or

http://smiler.no-ip.org/BT/BTFAQ.php

or

http://smiler.no-ip.org/BT/BTTutorial.php

This post has been edited by Dibrom: Jun 5 2003, 01:22
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SometimesWarrior
post Jun 5 2003, 01:22
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jun 4 2003 - 05:02 PM)
Unfortunately, I think it's too late now to come with such solution. Hopefully, people will pick up samples randomly, and whenever possible pick them all.

BTW, there are 12 torrents. wink.gif

Whoops, too many programming assignments... I start all my counts at zero now. rolleyes.gif

QUOTE
QUOTE
Also, are these .torrent's the only way to download the files right now?

The links to download the .zip files form a server are inside the readme file.

It turns out, the BitTorrent client is actually pleasing to use; I was foolishly expecting it to be something obtrusive, although I should have higher expectations of the HA admins. It's very transparent! What a nice implementation of distributed downloading. Plus, the author looks eerily like a friend of mine.

QUOTE (Dibrom @ Jun 4 2003 - 05:09 PM)
You need to open some ports probably.

Okay, the original BitTorrent client was showing some upload activity before did anything to the firewall, but I opened the ports anyway.
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Garf
post Jun 5 2003, 09:38
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All done and sent.

Takes about 2hrs for all samples, more if you want to be more carefull.
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SometimesWarrior
post Jun 5 2003, 11:20
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QUOTE (Garf @ Jun 5 2003 - 01:38 AM)
All done and sent.

Takes about 2hrs for all samples, more if you want to be more carefull.

It took me two hours to do two samples! Some of those are really hard to ABX... I refuse to admit that 128kbps can ever be transparent! biggrin.gif
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unit22
post Jun 5 2003, 12:22
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jun 4 2003 - 09:53 PM)
But your comments on sample quality and artifacts would still be welcome.

All samples # 3 did not work on a Mac with QT 6.3 Pro
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Paspro
post Jun 5 2003, 15:14
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Done and e-mailed.
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BadHorsie
post Jun 5 2003, 15:27
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QUOTE (Frank Klemm @ Jun 4 2003 - 02:28 PM)
Why are links nearly invisible? I setup Mozilla to display links as underlined blue text, but in HA it is only underlined and
gray like the rest of the text.

... maybe stylesheets? wink.gif

line 19 and 20 to be more specific.

BadHorsie

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Caleb
post Jun 5 2003, 16:05
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QUOTE (Frank Klemm @ Jun 5 2003 - 12:28 AM)
Why are links nearly invisible? I setup Mozilla to display links as underlined blue text, but in HA it is only underlined and
gray like the rest of the text.

I think it's because Mozilla can't (or won't) override CSS that this forum uses.
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danchr
post Jun 5 2003, 16:47
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jun 4 2003 - 10:53 PM)
--I'm on Linux/MacOS/something other than Windows. Can I take the test?

You can. But you won't be able to use the ABC/HR utility, that is Win32 only. Since the reference file must be hidden (That's the HR in the name), tests performed without it wouldn't be valid. So, I can't plot your scores against others. But your comments on sample quality and artifacts would still be welcome.

Good things come to those who wait smile.gif Summer vacations are coming up, and depending on how much time is spent on design and doing it The Right Way, I refuse to believe that writing an ABC/HR app could take much more than a day to a week biggrin.gif
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rjamorim
post Jun 5 2003, 17:27
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QUOTE (danchr @ Jun 5 2003 - 12:47 PM)
Good things come to those who wait smile.gif Summer vacations are coming up, and depending on how much time is spent on design and doing it The Right Way, I refuse to believe that writing an ABC/HR app could take much more than a day to a week biggrin.gif

That would surely be extremely welcome, Dan. smile.gif

Looking forward to that.

@everyone that already sent me test results: thanks a lot.

This post has been edited by rjamorim: Jun 5 2003, 17:27


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rjamorim
post Jun 5 2003, 21:34
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QUOTE (unit22 @ Jun 5 2003 - 08:22 AM)
All samples # 3 did not work on a Mac with QT 6.3 Pro

Yeah, QT for Win chokes on them here too.

I recently added a FAAD2 OSX compile to RareWares. I suggest you try it, it will probably work.

http://pessoal.onda.com.br/rjamorim/faad_OSX.tgz

Thanks to the fella that compiled this and prefers to remain anonymous (you know who you are) smile.gif


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robert
post Jun 5 2003, 21:41
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jun 5 2003 - 10:34 PM)
Yeah, QT for Win chokes on them here too.

oh boy, every time you talk about QT I get fooled again.
me thinking of Qt
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rjamorim
post Jun 6 2003, 01:14
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QUOTE (robert @ Jun 5 2003 - 05:41 PM)
oh boy, every time you talk about QT I get fooled again.
me thinking of Qt

Hehe. Sorry. happy.gif

A request: Is there any Slashdot insider here?

I would be very grateful if someone can post there about this test, and link to this page:

http://rarewares.hydrogenaudio.org/test/

Thank-you

Roberto.


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Canar
post Jun 6 2003, 01:21
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QUOTE (Caleb @ Jun 5 2003 - 07:05 AM)
I think it's because Mozilla can't (or won't) override CSS that this forum uses.

Doesn't "!important" work?


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den
post Jun 6 2003, 03:40
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Sorry to ask this so late into the test, but...

QUOTE
The encoders and parameters tested are:
Psytel AACenc 2.15 -br 128


Why this, and not aacenc -streaming instead? huh.gif

The tested option shows a high frequency cut off at 15505 Hz, while the -streaming cuts off at 18500 Hz. Also, isn't the general opinion to go for VBR rather than CBR? unsure.gif

I guess I'm showing my ignorance of most things AAC here, and perhaps the above is chosen to provide a level playing field amongst all the encoders, but aren't you looking for the best available AAC at around the 128 kbit mark? Certainly in my own testing, aacenc always gets close to 128 kbit with the -streaming profile.

Or perhaps -br 128 is the best choice with aacenc rather than -streaming quality wise?

I'm a little confused.

Den.

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