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Neil Young's new iPod killer!, Finally comes out.
skamp
post Mar 15 2014, 16:01
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QUOTE (bandpass @ Mar 15 2014, 13:45) *
we (or it) will have to wait a little longer to be blown away.


Needs moar RMAA. dry.gif


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Engelsstaub
post Mar 15 2014, 18:39
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QUOTE (LedHed8 @ Mar 15 2014, 08:05) *
QUOTE
“It raises the consumer-level quality of music to where it was pre-1980,” says Young.


Yes, bring back cassettes and 8-tracks too!! wink.gif ...


Not to get too far OT but cassettes have already made a small comeback in in some "underground" metal circles. A lot of bands on non-major metal labels are doing limited cassette releases...and selling every copy.

I grew up with tapes mostly and wouldn't look forward to going back to them but I guess they would be fun to collect as a physical format now for many. I just couldn't see the point in actually listening to them in this century.


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Mach-X
post Mar 15 2014, 20:00
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QUOTE (LedHed8 @ Mar 15 2014, 09:05) *
QUOTE
“It raises the consumer-level quality of music to where it was pre-1980,” says Young.


Yes, bring back cassettes and 8-tracks too!! wink.gif Wouldn't you love to subject the audiophool crowd to massive abx and abc/hr tests? Oh wait, those tests would prove nothing because you can't measure what one feels in the "soul" when listening to music. tongue.gif

Actually, I'm awaiting with popcorn the 300 pages that will erupt on head-fi as Skamp goes to war with the subjectivists over this one. Although I doubt after three locked Altmann Tera threads hes got anything left in the tank. Yes I spent three days reading those and have never been so heartily entertained!
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skamp
post Mar 15 2014, 20:16
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QUOTE (Mach-X @ Mar 15 2014, 20:00) *
Although I doubt after three locked Altmann Tera threads hes got anything left in the tank.


Oh yes, I'm done with that. I'm all relaxed now cool.gif



This post has been edited by skamp: Mar 15 2014, 20:28


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julf
post Mar 15 2014, 20:51
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QUOTE (Mach-X @ Mar 15 2014, 20:00) *
Actually, I'm awaiting with popcorn the 300 pages that will erupt on head-fi as Skamp goes to war with the subjectivists over this one. Although I doubt after three locked Altmann Tera threads hes got anything left in the tank. Yes I spent three days reading those and have never been so heartily entertained!


I think we should have a "banned from the most audiophile sites" award smile.gif
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drfisheye
post Mar 15 2014, 21:05
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QUOTE (bandpass @ Mar 15 2014, 13:45) *
“It raises the consumer-level quality of music to where it was pre-1980,” says Young.

So, why didn't everyone just keep buying vinyl then? No one forced consumers to buy CDs.

That in itself doesn't prove much. Consumers jumped on LCD tv's when CRT's were obviously better quality. (Even before HD arrived.)
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2Bdecided
post Mar 16 2014, 00:05
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QUOTE (drfisheye @ Mar 15 2014, 20:05) *
QUOTE (bandpass @ Mar 15 2014, 13:45) *
“It raises the consumer-level quality of music to where it was pre-1980,” says Young.

So, why didn't everyone just keep buying vinyl then? No one forced consumers to buy CDs.

That in itself doesn't prove much. Consumers jumped on LCD tv's when CRT's were obviously better quality. (Even before HD arrived.)
Quality conscious consumers didn't - they went for plasmas.
Broadcasters didn't - they looked on in dismay as broadcast quality monitors became harder and harder to get.

As LCDs have caught up somewhat, both these factors have declined.


Whereas when CDs came along, there were no contemporary accounts claiming they were poor quality. The broadcast audio and video world dumped analogue and embraced digital as quickly as funds would allow*.


That's the difference between a real inferiority (early LCDs were shockingly bad), and an imagined inferiority hyped up when it's time to sell the next generation format.

Cheers,
David.

* = uncompressed digital production; compressed digital broadcasts to consumers replaced analogue for reasons that, in most territories, have little to do with quality!

This post has been edited by 2Bdecided: Mar 17 2014, 12:09
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saratoga
post Mar 16 2014, 01:19
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The CRT argument is a stretch. You could get very good CRTs that were better than early TN LCDs, but the average CRT was not nearly so good. I had a early-2000s HD CRT until recently, and by modern standards it was quite poor. I think the average person upgraded from a CRT to a moderately better LCD while people who had very nice CRTs shelled out for plasma.
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andy o
post Mar 16 2014, 02:35
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QUOTE (Mach-X @ Mar 15 2014, 12:00) *
Altmann Tera

Well I had to google "Altmann Tera" and one of the top images is this one. Which leads to a Vietnamese forum. Didn't someone here actually make it? If so, good work!



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Satellite_6
post Mar 16 2014, 02:47
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What's better than a brick? A triangular brick.

Surely the best design ever conceived.

I can buy this and die happy now.

This post has been edited by Satellite_6: Mar 16 2014, 02:48


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4season
post Mar 16 2014, 06:25
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QUOTE (Satellite_6 @ Mar 15 2014, 19:47) *
What's better than a brick? A triangular brick.

Surely the best design ever conceived.

I can buy this and die happy now.

But it's available in yellow! Sometimes people just want to buy a shiny new celebrity-endorsed tech toy or feel like they're somehow a part of something larger?

I just checked into the Kickstarter page and note that 1706 people have contributed but aren't actually getting a PonoPlayer, just a thank-you, a sticker, a shirt or a signed poster! That's right, as of Sunday evening: 1706 people have pledged a minimum of $88,385 for nothing more than token gifts.

Meanwhile another 60 folks have pledged a minimum of $300,000 to participate in a "Listening party hosted by Neil Young".

Of those who have actually signed up to get a PonoPlayer minus listening party, just 1624 people are simply getting the player, while a whopping 6670 chose the higher-cost "Signature Series" models. I wonder how many of those are destined to remain unused as collectables or be immediately flipped on eBay?

This post has been edited by 4season: Mar 16 2014, 06:26
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skamp
post Mar 16 2014, 08:35
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QUOTE (andy o @ Mar 16 2014, 02:35) *
Didn't someone here actually make it? If so, good work!


Our very own Kohlrabi. And now it's come full circle!


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drfisheye
post Mar 16 2014, 12:59
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QUOTE (saratoga @ Mar 16 2014, 01:19) *
The CRT argument is a stretch. You could get very good CRTs that were better than early TN LCDs, but the average CRT was not nearly so good. I had a early-2000s HD CRT until recently, and by modern standards it was quite poor. I think the average person upgraded from a CRT to a moderately better LCD while people who had very nice CRTs shelled out for plasma.

Even my cheapo Sharp tv looked better than those early LCD's (and even today's LCD's, aside from resolution, flickering, a slightly bend surface and a high pitched beeb). In laptops my newest laptop with IPS screen is the first one to match my old B&O (read Philips) tv. In the stores, the CRT's were tucked away so you couldn't compare them directly with LCD (like they do with Bose hifi).

But I guess this is getting off topic and I have no objective tests to offer. Though a look at contrast specs tells part of the story.
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moozooh
post Mar 18 2014, 23:04
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So, any insightful comments about its audio hardware yet? How does it compare to the competition in that regard (HiFiMan et al.)?

I'm guessing no RMAA tests so far since it's not released (is it?). Sorry, I'm unexpectedly lazy today.


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Maurits
post Mar 18 2014, 23:41
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QUOTE (moozooh @ Mar 18 2014, 23:04) *
So, any insightful comments about its audio hardware yet? How does it compare to the competition in that regard (HiFiMan et al.)?

I'm guessing no RMAA tests so far since it's not released (is it?). Sorry, I'm unexpectedly lazy today.

Well, I can't help but think that they chose the ESS 9018 because it was one of the most expensive DACs they could find. Around $55 dollars apparently (though likely cheaper by the 1000).

Being an 8-channel DAC its target market seems to me to be 7.1 AV receiver market and not the typical music market so overkill just to crank up the price. I could be wrong though.

This post has been edited by Maurits: Mar 18 2014, 23:42
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Kohlrabi
post Mar 19 2014, 09:41
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QUOTE (Maurits @ Mar 18 2014, 23:41) *
Being an 8-channel DAC its target market seems to me to be 7.1 AV receiver market and not the typical music market so overkill just to crank up the price. I could be wrong though.
Because a higher number is better! Do you not get what Neil Young is trying to tell us? laugh.gif


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KozmoNaut
post Mar 19 2014, 10:20
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QUOTE (Maurits @ Mar 18 2014, 23:41) *
QUOTE (moozooh @ Mar 18 2014, 23:04) *
So, any insightful comments about its audio hardware yet? How does it compare to the competition in that regard (HiFiMan et al.)?

I'm guessing no RMAA tests so far since it's not released (is it?). Sorry, I'm unexpectedly lazy today.

Well, I can't help but think that they chose the ESS 9018 because it was one of the most expensive DACs they could find. Around $55 dollars apparently (though likely cheaper by the 1000).

Being an 8-channel DAC its target market seems to me to be 7.1 AV receiver market and not the typical music market so overkill just to crank up the price. I could be wrong though.


I think it's meant to increase the precision of the DAC process, not to handle 8 discrete channels.

It's all bullshit, of course.
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includemeout
post Mar 19 2014, 12:05
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QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Mar 19 2014, 05:41) *
Because a higher number is better! Do you not get what Neil Young is trying to tell us? laugh.gif


He's sure to strike gold then. As this "mine is bigger than anyone else's" approach is sure to find a place in many an audiophool's (AKA: middle-aged, Harley-Davidson/Bentley owning, who's-the-boss-now, middle-aged men with serious self steem issues) heart.

This post has been edited by includemeout: Mar 19 2014, 12:07


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Arnold B. Kruege...
post Mar 19 2014, 14:46
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QUOTE (bandpass @ Mar 15 2014, 08:45) *
“It raises the consumer-level quality of music to where it was pre-1980,” says Young.

So, why didn't everyone just keep buying vinyl then? No one forced consumers to buy CDs.


According to audiophile mythology, regular consumers were forced to buy CDs when retailers stopped stocking (or restocking) LPs.

I started selling off my 1000+ LP collection about year after I obtained my CDP-101, got good prices for them, and used the money to reimburse the cost of the CD player and replacement and new CDs. People who started the same process a year or two later didn't do nearly as well.

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Arnold B. Kruege...
post Mar 19 2014, 14:50
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QUOTE (Maurits @ Mar 18 2014, 18:41) *
QUOTE (moozooh @ Mar 18 2014, 23:04) *
So, any insightful comments about its audio hardware yet? How does it compare to the competition in that regard (HiFiMan et al.)?

I'm guessing no RMAA tests so far since it's not released (is it?). Sorry, I'm unexpectedly lazy today.

Well, I can't help but think that they chose the ESS 9018 because it was one of the most expensive DACs they could find. Around $55 dollars apparently (though likely cheaper by the 1000).


ESS is the new chipophile/audiophile favorite brand because they publicize their product directly to audiophiles.

QUOTE
Being an 8-channel DAC its target market seems to me to be 7.1 AV receiver market and not the typical music market so overkill just to crank up the price. I could be wrong though.


If you build your DACs so that they produce uncorrelated noise their dynamic range improves by about 3 dB every time you double the number you mix the outputs of. They're probably using all 8 sections that way to obtain an approximate 6 dB reduction in noise.
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moozooh
post Mar 19 2014, 22:11
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Sounds sweet. Wonder what's the headphone amp they're using with this. Could be a great Rockbox platform, don't you guys think?


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includemeout
post Mar 20 2014, 01:26
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QUOTE (moozooh @ Mar 19 2014, 18:11) *
Sounds sweet. Wonder what's the headphone amp they're using with this. Could be a great Rockbox platform, don't you guys think?

Nah, even if it will ever be, there are cheaper alternatives.


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Ron Jones
post Mar 20 2014, 02:55
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QUOTE (Satellite_6 @ Mar 15 2014, 18:47) *
What's better than a brick? A triangular brick. Surely the best design ever conceived.

I believe the idea may have been to make it purposely un-pocketable so onlookers would have no trouble identifying the player. Apple used a similar technique with their signature white earbuds.

Apple's idea, of course, was a good one. Neil Young's...not so much.
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kornchild2002
post Mar 20 2014, 12:35
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QUOTE (Ron Jones @ Mar 19 2014, 19:55) *
I believe the idea may have been to make it purposely un-pocketable so onlookers would have no trouble identifying the player. Apple used a similar technique with their signature white earbuds.

Apple's idea, of course, was a good one. Neil Young's...not so much.


You might be onto something. I was looking to see if the player had some sort of clip or belt loop attachment but I couldn't find anything on their flashy website. It looks like the player is designed to be carried around and then, when not in use, put on one of its flat sides. It might be a ploy just so people have to keep it out when sitting it down since they can't put it in their pockets. There's a reason why DAPs have been flat and rectangular for years (what, about 13 years now?), that makes them easier to carry and stow away in a bag or pocket. Who would want to hide such a beautiful, yellow triangle?
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Kohlrabi
post Mar 20 2014, 12:51
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QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Mar 20 2014, 12:35) *
It looks like the player is designed to be carried around and then, when not in use, put on one of its flat sides. It might be a ploy just so people have to keep it out when sitting it down since they can't put it in their pockets. There's a reason why DAPs have been flat and rectangular for years (what, about 13 years now?), that makes them easier to carry and stow away in a bag or pocket. Who would want to hide such a beautiful, yellow triangle?
If it's not inconvenient, it's not audiophile.


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