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Topic: What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste (Read 23437 times) previous topic - next topic
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What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Title says it all.  I'm listening to regular stereo music on headphones that don't need an amp (Sennheiser HD558, Beats Solo 2, Sennheiser Amperior.)  Does using a dedicated sound card give me any benefits?

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #1 –
Depends on your needs.

Do you hear awful noise and other sounds?
Do these awful sounds show up after the headphones are plugged in for a while?  (happened in my case).
Do awful sounds show up when you plug in a device?
Does any of it actually bother you?

Awful sounds = buzzing, humming, hissing or anything indicated of bad design and poor signal to noise ratio.

If you answered yes to any of those.  You most likely need a dedicated sound card.

NOTE: If your motherboard has a digital out you can use it to output to external receiver and not worry about a dedicated sound card because it will bypass the problem.

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Chibisteven on
Depends on your needs.

Do you hear awful noise and other sounds?
Do these awful sounds show up after the headphones are plugged in for a while?  (happened in my case).
Do awful sounds show up when you plug in a device?
Does any of it actually bother you?

Awful sounds = buzzing, humming, hissing or anything indicated of bad design and poor signal to noise ratio.

If you answered yes to any of those.  You most likely need a dedicated sound card.

NOTE: If your motherboard has a digital out you can use it to output to external receiver and not worry about a dedicated sound card because it will bypass the problem.


My answer to all of these is no.

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #3 –
Quote from: apastuszak on
My answer to all of these is no.


Then you don't need one.  You may want one, but you don't need one.  If you're perfectly content with what you got than there's no reason to go out and buy something you don't need.

There is other reasons where someone will need a dedicated sound card, but I don't see you saying anything other than listening to music with headphones that don't even need a dedicated amp to drive them.

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #4 –
I have on both my Windows PCs USB cards exclusively for Dolby Headphone functionality.

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #5 –
Quote from: andy o on
I have on both my Windows PCs USB cards exclusively for Dolby Headphone functionality.


Dolby headphone seems like one of those things that can be done with software only.

Is there are reason why it can't/hasn't/won't be done that way?

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #7 –
It will sound better than onboard soundcard.

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #8 –
Soundcards are mostly for recording these days.  Maybe also if you have a really bad motherboard or something.

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #11 –
Quote from: pdq on
Quote from: apastuszak on
Quote from: augustine on
It will sound better than onboard soundcard.


Why?

Pay no attention. That is a claim of audible difference with no supporting evidence (violates TOS #8).


I have noticed that sound cards make things louder , because a lot of them have a built in amp.  But louder does not equal better.  It's just different, and in some case worse.

I guarantee you the guy that posted that comment own a pair of Sennheiser HD800s, with a tube headphone amp and buys all his music from hdtracks as he reads his stereophile subscription.

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: andy o on
I have on both my Windows PCs USB cards exclusively for Dolby Headphone functionality.


Dolby headphone seems like one of those things that can be done with software only.

Is there are reason why it can't/hasn't/won't be done that way?

Yeah, the problem is they just won't do it. There is nothing out there besides some DVD/Bluray players which cost more than the Xonar U3 and you can only use DH in those crappy players, not system-wide. Then you can have something like the fb2k DH wrapper, which again, only works in one player plus requires a DLL from one of the paid players. An attempt was made to make it work with MPC-HC which is what I prefer but I could never get it working right.

I've been waiting for like a decade for Dolby to come up with something like the SRS Audio Sandbox that doesn't suck, but I guess they probably don't wanna anger their hardware partners.

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #13 –
Quote from: andy o on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: andy o on
I have on both my Windows PCs USB cards exclusively for Dolby Headphone functionality.


Dolby headphone seems like one of those things that can be done with software only.

Is there are reason why it can't/hasn't/won't be done that way?

Yeah, the problem is they just won't do it. There is nothing out there besides some DVD/Bluray players which cost more than the Xonar U3 and you can only use DH in those crappy players, not system-wide. Then you can have something like the fb2k DH wrapper, which again, only works in one player plus requires a DLL from one of the paid players. An attempt was made to make it work with MPC-HC which is what I prefer but I could never get it working right.


I'm surprised no one has ported it to a system effect if the interface to the dll has already been reverse engineered.  Seems like it would be easy to incorporate into something like Equalizer APO that is already doing system-wide correction.  I guess not many people have 5.1 audio though.

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #14 –
Quote from: apastuszak on
I guarantee you the guy that posted that comment own a pair of Sennheiser HD800s, with a tube headphone amp and buys all his music from hdtracks as he reads his stereophile subscription.


Friendly advice:

Not every time someone says something stupid means their audiophile, either.  It could be from experience and may not have realized that things have changed.  We could be a little more civil towards people than that.  The tone is harsh.  He could just be trolling and laughing away at you guys' responses.  Maybe he is misinformed.  Assumption isn't exactly the smartest way of finding out what his intentions were.

My experience with people is never be quick to judge them and throw them all in the same category or stereotype.  If he doesn't reply then he is trolling you guys.  If he does reply try asking that he provide some evidence for his claims.

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #15 –
Quote from: apastuszak on
Quote from: augustine on
It will sound better than onboard soundcard.


Why?



While there is no such general rule any more, that rule once existed as a decent general rule because on board PC audio interfaces were once generally technically so crappy.

A very goodly number of them were capable of only 8 bit analog performance, for example.

Extensive technical data here: Wayback machine www.pcavtech.com audio interfaces

Back 15 years ago this was the performance of a widely sold onboard audio interface:

CMI 8338 technical performance (Yecch!)

Frequency response -3 dB @ 10 KHz, 6% IM. 38 dB SNR.  That's audible!

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #16 –
Quote from: andy o on
I have on both my Windows PCs USB cards exclusively for Dolby Headphone functionality.

OT: There's a Dolby Atmos binaural renderer available on several tablets. Initial demos sound better than Dolby headphone to my ears, though I've not heard a fair comparison. Dolby Headphone always sounded like speakers playing in a rather echoey room to me, which I didn't like. The new technology seems to have far less of this echoey room effect which is an improvement (again, to my ears - YMMV!).

Cheers,
David.

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #17 –
Yeah that's frustrating, Dolby has always tied those things to specific hardware, besides the constant rebranding (DH, Dolby Home Theater, Dolby HT v4, and now it's under the "Atmos" umbrella?!) and lack of proper marketing, no wonder it's not better known. DH would be amazing for mobile devices.

BTW, DH has 3 modes, simulating a drier room progressively to a large one. I think if you can't choose, the mode is DH2. Have you tried DH1?

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #18 –
We had a thread about onboard vs dedicated soundcards here some time ago: click.

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #19 –
My non-board card reduced noise floor. It's not possible to truly verify if this was at all audible during music/games, since I got the separate card after killing the on-board.

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Chibisteven on
Quote from: apastuszak on
I guarantee you the guy that posted that comment own a pair of Sennheiser HD800s, with a tube headphone amp and buys all his music from hdtracks as he reads his stereophile subscription.


Friendly advice:

Not every time someone says something stupid means their audiophile, either.  It could be from experience and may not have realized that things have changed.  We could be a little more civil towards people than that.  The tone is harsh.  He could just be trolling and laughing away at you guys' responses.  Maybe he is misinformed.  Assumption isn't exactly the smartest way of finding out what his intentions were.

My experience with people is never be quick to judge them and throw them all in the same category or stereotype.  If he doesn't reply then he is trolling you guys.  If he does reply try asking that he provide some evidence for his claims.


Good point.  I was an ass and I apologize.  I deal with "audiophiles" on a daily basis.  I was particularly enraged that day after an email exchange.

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #21 –
@OP original question: Lower output impedance.

High output impedance (-> low damping factor) can cause audible frequency response deviations depending on your headphones. Sennheiser 558 for example will effectively receive a bass boost with high output impedance.

Onboard sound with ~75 ohm (front panel only!) seems to be pretty common, but an expensive Xonar STX still has 10 ohm, so an amp would probably be a better investment if this is an issue for you.
"I hear it when I see it."

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #22 –
Quote from: pdq on
Quote from: apastuszak on
Quote from: augustine on
It will sound better than onboard soundcard.


Why?

Pay no attention. That is a claim of audible difference with no supporting evidence (violates TOS #8).


Ok perhaps I should have made a more elaborate reply..
Well im a sound engineer who hates tweak audiophile pseudoscientific nonsense so my claim is based on playing live and engineering for live sound for 25 years. I can't stand audiophile nonsense but onboard soundcards and their mini jacks do not sound as good as a quarter inch jack or xlr coming out of a dedicated usb interface.perhaps in recent years they got better but most laptops and desktops do not sound great. I have hd650 and the volume alone is about half coming out of my laptop mini jack as a dedicated usb soundcard with quarter inch jack output.  If you want proof use the rew test and room eq software to generate a sine sweep from the output to the input of the soundcard. Most usb ssound cards are flat but many onboard soundcard exhibit a lot of frequency dips and peaks and higher distortion. Of course you could say this is just the input. I may have a go at this tomorrow and post the results going out of both an xlr rme soundcard and my laptop one into the same preamp. This will show the difference in output only and will prevent will provide evidence for my opinion.  Of course such an experiment is easily repeatable rew is free software.

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #23 –
Quote from: apastuszak on
Quote from: pdq on
Quote from: apastuszak on
Quote from: augustine on
It will sound better than onboard soundcard.


Why?

Pay no attention. That is a claim of audible difference with no supporting evidence (violates TOS #8).


I have noticed that sound cards make things louder , because a lot of them have a built in amp.  But louder does not equal better.  It's just different, and in some case worse.

I guarantee you the guy that posted that comment own a pair of Sennheiser HD800s, with a tube headphone amp and buys all his music from hdtracks as he reads his stereophile subscription.



Lol i guarantee you are badly incorrect. the opposite in fact my favourite audio mmagazines is audio critic.

What does a sound card get me over on-board audio when lstening to ste

Reply #24 –
Quote from: apastuszak on
Quote from: Chibisteven on
Quote from: apastuszak on
I guarantee you the guy that posted that comment own a pair of Sennheiser HD800s, with a tube headphone amp and buys all his music from hdtracks as he reads his stereophile subscription.


Friendly advice:

Not every time someone says something stupid means their audiophile, either.  It could be from experience and may not have realized that things have changed.  We could be a little more civil towards people than that.  The tone is harsh.  He could just be trolling and laughing away at you guys' responses.  Maybe he is misinformed.  Assumption isn't exactly the smartest way of finding out what his intentions were.

My experience with people is never be quick to judge them and throw them all in the same category or stereotype.  If he doesn't reply then he is trolling you guys.  If he does reply try asking that he provide some evidence for his claims.


Good point.  I was an ass and I apologize.  I deal with "audiophiles" on a daily basis.  I was particularly enraged that day after an email exchange.


Yeah you were being an ass - I hate audiophile drivel as much as the next guy and am actually doing a phd in audio so believe I have at least a simewhat informed opinion. I despise anything that can't stand up to the rigours of an abx test but laptop mini jacks are simple not powerful enough to power my headphones and yes being able to hear the music above he noise of the train I often sit on does equal "better". As I say perhaps things have changed but.my laptop headphone output is still as crap as they were 15 years ago.
The irony of this conversation  is that I've just been berating posters on gearslutz for buying dedicated headphone amps instead of just using their outputs on their usb soundcards .... now I am being caricatured as  a tweak cultist .... karma perhaps ?