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RE: foobar2000 v1.3 upcoming changes, Attention lyrics viewer authors, Non-dev fb moved. Original: hydrogenaudio.org/forums/?showtopic=101928
Alexander Ostuni
post Jul 25 2013, 16:45
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Wow,
for me (about 80.000 items in the library) this is great news. I am curious what the startup times will be.
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BenB
post Jul 25 2013, 18:37
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After reading this post, I'm curious to know how this might affect searching for a song via a lyrics tag/embedded lyrics? One example being you remember part of the lyrics but can't remember the title.

I'm assuming one will have to use $meta() to access lyrics as of foobar2000 v1.3, and it's known that that "will decrease the speed of queries performed upon large libraries."

Are there any other side effects foobar users should prepare themselves for regarding this change?
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mrinferno
post Jul 25 2013, 19:31
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cool, always looking forward to new foobar2000 updates.

i have a large library also, 54k items. though i work very hard to keep all my tags clean of the above said extraneous items with tons of text data that don't really belong there in the first place.
hopefully this won't affect caching of some custom tags in the db such as STYLE, MOOD, THEME, etc.

my start up times are pretty good already, no complaints...
Autoplaylists initialized in: 0:01.684167
...
Startup time : 0:04.443287


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derty2
post Jul 26 2013, 00:28
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So if one adds a lengthy text block which contains specific keywords into the <COMMENT> tag, will the Library Search window give results if <COMMENT> is queried?
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marc2003
post Jul 26 2013, 17:09
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how is this going to work? is it going to ignore a pre-determined list of tags allowing people to bypass it with their own custom tags? or will it simply ignore any tag over a given size?

the only reason i ask is because i use sometimes use comment as part of my playlist view. i only use single words but i'd guess other people do stick large chunks of text in this same tag and i'm wondering if i'm going to be affected or not.
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Robertina
post Jul 26 2013, 21:40
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I listen to a foreign language learning podcast series. The words/expressions to be learned are stored in either the <comment> tag or <UNSYNCED LYRICS> tag of each episode. No other accompanying material is available, so I was always thankful for beeing able to search the comment/LYRICS field with foobar2000 for some needed information.

I hope the upcoming limitations are not too strict.


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BenB
post Jul 26 2013, 22:30
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If I'm understanding this part correctly,

QUOTE (Peter @ Jul 25 2013, 06:35) *
To address the above issue, foobar2000 v1.3 metadb will selectively ignore specific metadata records read from the files - mainly data that does not need to be readily available for displaying in playlist, library viewers, etc.

it simply means that foobar will no longer cache certain metadata,

and this part

QUOTE (Peter @ Jul 25 2013, 06:35) *
This will not affect daily use; properties dialog will still be able to show complete metadata by reading it from affected files directly.

means that even though that certain metadata will no longer be cached and, if it was accessible before, it will continue to be accessible.

This post has been edited by BenB: Jul 26 2013, 22:31
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db1989
post Jul 26 2013, 22:49
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If any part of your workflow does anything to actively access the data, it will, of course, be provided. This includes searching.

If I understand Peter correctly, this change will only affect existing scenarios that involve playlist viewers and large metadata fields, which will no longer be held in memory so that they can be displayed instantly.

Perhaps the core could receive a new set of Preferences to enable users who know what they’re doing to force loading of certain fields for display in their playlists? That would solve the issue for all playlist viewers, including good ol’ Columns UI, which is highly unlikely to be updated with the new code that would be necessary. But I’m not up to speed on the SDK or how Peter wants to implement this, so this might not be possible.

This post has been edited by db1989: Jul 26 2013, 22:51
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marc2003
post Jul 26 2013, 23:19
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QUOTE (BenB @ Jul 26 2013, 22:30) *
QUOTE (Peter @ Jul 25 2013, 06:35) *
To address the above issue, foobar2000 v1.3 metadb will selectively ignore specific metadata records read from the files - mainly data that does not need to be readily available for displaying in playlist, library viewers, etc.



oops, i missed that first time round. i guess that answers my query. if comment is on the list, i'll just use my own custom tag.
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Andreasvb
post Jul 26 2013, 23:29
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I would guess it's more a whitelist than a blacklist.

Maybe have an advanced option to specify what tags to keep?
And an option to truncate if too long, say 100 chars /tag?


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Robertina
post Jul 27 2013, 00:05
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QUOTE (db1989 @ Jul 26 2013, 10:49) *
If I understand Peter correctly, [...]

Perhaps the core could receive [...] That would solve [...], including good ol' Columns UI, which is highly unlikely to be updated with the new code that would be necessary.
bold formatted by me

This raises up a new point and causes the fear that Columns UI could no longer be used with foobar2000 1.3 (so many perhaps, could, would...)

The loss of CUI would be a disaster for me (yes, would be).


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db1989
post Jul 27 2013, 00:08
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Whence this paranoia? Worst-case scenario, outdated UIs will not be able to circumvent the excluded caching, so the affected fields might be truncated or absent in their playlist view. Where do you get ideas about the entire UI becoming completely unusable due to this new workflow?

And again: perhaps there’ll be no problem, depending upon how Peter and co. are doing this, an analysis I leave to those with experience of programming for fb2k.

At the very least, let’s stop wildly speculating about how bad things will be when (A) there’s no logical reason to and (B) it remains to be seen whether there can be a whitelist as myself and Andreasvb have proposed, enabling desired fields to function as normal in every context if the user actively chooses.

This post has been edited by db1989: Jul 27 2013, 00:10
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Robertina
post Jul 27 2013, 00:39
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QUOTE
Where do you get ideas about the entire UI becoming completely unusable due to this new workflow?

Your considerations I cited reflected the point that CUI could be affected in a way, if certain aspects wouldn't be adressed by the core's development. This was the first time that I thought about a possible problem in connection with CUI at all.

Please use conditional forms where required: I didn't say CUI becomes unusable, I said that your reflections directed my attention to CUI and raised the fear CUI could no longer be used.

Obviously you didn't noticed that my post has been a moderate criticism of your own speculations.

And that one day Columns UI won't work anymore, is merely a matter of time. So don't call me paranoid.

EDIT: This post replies to db1989's post who edited his answer while I was posting.

This post has been edited by Robertina: Jul 27 2013, 00:43


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Hitchhiker427
post Oct 18 2013, 16:07
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I just updated to the latest foobar2000 1.3 beta 1, and I really hope that the developers consider adding a white list for advanced users.

I can no longer search for tracks based on their lyrics from within EsPlaylist (no real hope of being updated), which was a very frequently used feature for me. Also, I'm having difficulty displaying lyrics in my WSH Panel, but this may be either something I'm doing wrong (lyrics no longer work for flac files, but continue to work for mp3 files...), or something the developer can fix in the future (as this seems to still be in development).

Also, selecting a large number of tracks and going to "properties" takes ages, as it indexes each file. This operation used to be near-instant.

Finally, as a side note, I haven't really noticed any performance improvements from this change. I have a large library (20,000+ tracks) with full lyrics included for ~85% of the tracks. I'm just the type of user this change is supposed to benefit, however, my memory usage, startup time, and general performance have not improved at all.
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marc2003
post Oct 19 2013, 13:27
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QUOTE (Hitchhiker427 @ Oct 18 2013, 16:07) *
Also, I'm having difficulty displaying lyrics in my WSH Panel, but this may be either something I'm doing wrong (lyrics no longer work for flac files, but continue to work for mp3 files...), or something the developer can fix in the future (as this seems to still be in development).


i've found exactly the same issue with the columns UI item details panel and foosion's foo_textdisplay panel for default UI. all 3 components will display a wall of text from the comment tag in an mp3 but not flac. also, it only works for the playing track. none of the 3 components will display anything from a selected track that isn't playing. i'd hope this can be changed in the core because i doubt 2 of those components will get updated.
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delusion
post Feb 2 2014, 09:56
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QUOTE (Hitchhiker427 @ Oct 18 2013, 17:07) *
I just updated to the latest foobar2000 1.3 beta 1, and I really hope that the developers consider adding a white list for advanced users.

I can no longer search for tracks based on their lyrics from within EsPlaylist (no real hope of being updated), which was a very frequently used feature for me. Also, I'm having difficulty displaying lyrics in my WSH Panel, but this may be either something I'm doing wrong (lyrics no longer work for flac files, but continue to work for mp3 files...), or something the developer can fix in the future (as this seems to still be in development).


I experience the same problem!
Since upgrading to v1.3 I cannot search in Lyrics or Unsynced Lyrics. This is really a mess!
I am working for a community radio station and we use foobar to prepare context-based (lyric-based) music-shows.
We really use this frequently and it would be very nice to know, how to whitelist the tag-fields "LYRICS" and "UNSYNCED LYRICS",
to make them searchable again.

Is it just to delete the rows in LargeFieldsConfig.txt containing "fieldSpam=lyrics" & "fieldSpam=unsynced lyrics"?
Or do I have to add these also to the Basic-Fields too?

I got no clue about the pros of this foobar-changes, but what I see is, that it limits a default heavy user like me.
Since I am using foobar from v0.8 on, and promoting it as highly customizable, this is really a big step back.
this is my first foobar2000-doh blink.gif since the changes from 0.8 to 0.9...

all the best, cheers
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