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Topic: Oddeofile Amps (Read 9239 times) previous topic - next topic
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Oddeofile Amps

Hello,

This is a wonderful forum, I have been lurking here for years and I have learned a lot.

Back in the late 90's I naively purchased audiophile electronics, a SS preamp and a SS power amp both from the same audiophile manufacturer.

My question is, did I possibly make a mistake? I realize now I could have spent way less getting 'Pro' amps instead of being influenced by a hi-end stereo magazine recommendation.

Any thoughts from anyone?
Ad hominem attacks are not Science.

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #1 –
Its possible you overpaid, but if you're still happy with it almost 20 years later, it couldn't have been that bad of a deal.

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #2 –
You may have paid more than you needed to, but odds are there's nothing wrong with the sound.    And obviously if they are still working, the reliability is good!

If it's a well-known brand it may still have some value in the vintage audiophile market.     

The fact that they are solid state is a good sign...    It's more difficult and expensive to build a good tube amp so it's slightly more likely for a tube amp to be underpowered or have "quirks" in the sound.

Quote
I could have spent way less getting 'Pro' amps instead...
Pro amps usually give you the most wattage per dollar.    But many high-power pro amps have cooling fans, and the fan noise can be an issue.  For home systems, you usually get the most bang-per-buck with a receiver.

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #3 –
Yes, the amps still work flawlessly and I am still enjoying their usage, but I suppose I could still sell them online through classified.

I've been looking at the Crown amps which seem to deliver really good value per dollar. My main regret (embarrassment) is purchasing MIT cables. The 8' speaker cables were about $275.00 and the balanced cables for the preamp were about $145.00. I've slapped myself over and over for that decision. Generic cables could have been purchased for way less and I wouldn't have heard the difference. Live and learn. I am learning, that's why I hang out on this site.

Years ago, I was lured in by a hi-end audiophile magazine that convinced me that "hand-made", "hand-wound", "premium parts", "100% discrete", "no capacitors in the signal path", "no IC op-amps", "no tone controls to degrade the sound", "warm tube sound", "very musical sounding", "mid-range bloom, "tons of headroom", "real bass slam" was what I needed for good sound. What I really needed instead was an education on proper room acoustics and speaker placement.
Ad hominem attacks are not Science.

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #4 –
Welcome to the dark ... eh rational side.
"I hear it when I see it."

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #5 –
At this point forgive yourself and just enjoy the sound.
Was that a 1 or a 0?

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #6 –
Quote from: NaturalTimbre on
Back in the late 90's I naively purchased audiophile electronics, a SS preamp and a SS power amp both from the same audiophile manufacturer.


Just out of curiousity, what did you get? And how much did you pay, if you don't mind disclosing that?

If you're happy with the gear, and it's not something outrageously expensive (and profitable on the second-hand market), I think you should just keep it. A lot of audiophile gear tends to look quite nice, while most pro gear has basically negative Wife Acceptance Factor.

Keep in mind that if you do go for a pro power amp, you will still need a preamp (or a mixer). Those tend to cost as much as decent integrated amps (or even more). So for the best bang for your buck, a decent integrated amp (or AV receiver if you want to do home theater and surround sound) will be your best bet.

As for the cables, if they're in good condition with no damage/nicks/scratches and no faded colors from sunlight etc., you can definitely sell those on the second hand market, too. It's questionable how much you'll be able to get, though. Since they're obviously working just fine, and probably look quite nice, maybe you should just keep using them?

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #7 –
You may well have paid over-the-odds for the gear but if a) it still works, b) still gives a sound that pleases you and c) you didn't over-stretch yourself financially when you bought it then I don't see a reason to beat yourself up over it! Most of us have paid over what we needed to for some watch/smartphone/TV/DSLR or whatever, because we chose to. If you're not breaking the bank, why not?

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #8 –
If you're happy with what you have got and it's still fine after two decades, stop beating yourself up over it.

The deed is done, just play some music and enjoy yourself.

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #9 –
Quote
KozmoNaut said:
Just out of curiousity, what did you get? And how much did you pay, if you don't mind disclosing that?

No, I don't mind disclosing and thanks for asking. The preamp is a Classe CP-50 and the power amp is a Classe CA-200. The amps are made in Canada and came with a lifetime warranty, however, I'm not sure if the warranty is still honored, it's been so many years. Their new products only come with a 5-year warranty.

If I had it to do over now, I would chose one of the 'Pro' amps out there. You get great wattage per dollar. I can see why audiophiles are hanging it up and going for 'Pro' gear including PA speakers.
Ad hominem attacks are not Science.

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #10 –
Just from a cursory search, it seems that the CP-50 would bring in around $800 US, and the CA-200 around $1200 US. It's good quality gear, that AFAIK avoids all the usual audiophile foibles (zero feedback, exotic unstable designs etc.) and instead relies on good engineering. It's somewhat overpriced, but nowhere near the levels of overpricing on some audiophile-beloved, but much worse gear.

Those amounts you could get on the used market would buy you some decent pro gear, but it won't look nearly as nice in your living room, and it won't sound any better or worse.

I say stick with what you've got. It's lasted since the late 90s and plays well. By this point you probably know the remote and all the functions 100% by heart. Let the gear "disappear" and listen to music instead of worrying :-)

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #11 –
Quote from: KozmoNaut on
Just from a cursory search, it seems that the CP-50 would bring in around $800 US, and the CA-200 around $1200 US. It's good quality gear, that AFAIK avoids all the usual audiophile foibles (zero feedback, exotic unstable designs etc.) and instead relies on good engineering. It's somewhat overpriced, but nowhere near the levels of overpricing on some audiophile-beloved, but much worse gear.


This is my experience as well. Classe appears to be trying to compete with Bryston, whose gear is well designed and well made and unfortunately can't be ABXed from QSC and Crown amps that are also well designed and well made (but with less attention to curb appeal to the man on the street) for a fraction of the size, weight, and price, by trained listeners under the most ideal circumstances that I have been able to contrive. In this case the null results are good news, because that means that we're not talking about overpriced junk. Its overpriced, but not junk.


Oddeofile Amps

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: KozmoNaut on
Just from a cursory search, it seems that the CP-50 would bring in around $800 US, and the CA-200 around $1200 US. It's good quality gear, that AFAIK avoids all the usual audiophile foibles (zero feedback, exotic unstable designs etc.) and instead relies on good engineering. It's somewhat overpriced, but nowhere near the levels of overpricing on some audiophile-beloved, but much worse gear.


This is my experience as well. Classe appears to be trying to compete with Bryston, whose gear is well designed and well made and unfortunately can't be ABXed from QSC and Crown amps that are also well designed and well made (but with less attention to curb appeal to the man on the street) for a fraction of the size, weight, and price, by trained listeners under the most ideal circumstances that I have been able to contrive. In this case the null results are good news, because that means that we're not talking about overpriced junk. Its overpriced, but not junk.

Nice transferrable warranties on Bryston gear, though.

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #13 –
Quote
Arnold B. Krueger wrote:
Classe appears to be trying to compete with Bryston, whose gear is well designed and well made and unfortunately can't be ABXed from QSC...

Hello, I'm not sure what you mean. Does that mean you can't perform an ABX test properly with any Bryston components?
Ad hominem attacks are not Science.

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #14 –
Quote from: NaturalTimbre on
Quote
Arnold B. Krueger wrote:
Classe appears to be trying to compete with Bryston, whose gear is well designed and well made and unfortunately can't be ABXed from QSC...

Hello, I'm not sure what you mean. Does that mean you can't perform an ABX test properly with any Bryston components?


More along the lines that no one has so far been able to ABX a Bryston amp (very expensive) from a similarly powerful QSC or Crown amp (significantly less expensive).

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #15 –
Quote
Hello, I'm not sure what you mean. Does that mean you can't perform an ABX test properly with any Bryston components?
You can perform an ABX test but you can't hear a difference.

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #16 –
'oddeophile'   

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #17 –
Quote from: DVDdoug on
Quote
Hello, I'm not sure what you mean. Does that mean you can't perform an ABX test properly with any Bryston components?
You can perform an ABX test but you can't hear a difference.



To be precise, it means those ABX test results did  not support the claim that those amps sound different.

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #18 –
Quote from: krabapple on
'oddeophile' 


Rick Schultz (of Virtual Dynamics "fame") used to run an "Oddiophile" series of videos on Youtube.

The first episode talked about how to replace the steel screws holding the speaker units in place with brass screws. According to him, it could easily double the sound quality! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylX--ePpb1k

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #19 –
Ironically enough, I noticed the parent company of Crown amps is Harman of Mark Levinson fame.

Maybe at the end of the day, the Levinson gear ends up subsidizing Crown so they can keeps it reasonably priced. 
Ad hominem attacks are not Science.

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #20 –
Quote from: NaturalTimbre on
Ironically enough, I noticed the parent company of Crown amps is Harman of Mark Levinson fame.

Maybe at the end of the day, the Levinson gear ends up subsidizing Crown so they can keeps it reasonably priced. 


Unfortunately, the reverse is probably true. Subsidiaries like Crown usually act like the cash cows, and high end specialty plays such as Levinson are smaller but riskier.

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #21 –
Quote
Rick Schultz (of Virtual Dynamics "fame") used to run an "Oddiophile" series of videos on Youtube.

Thanks for the link, I looked at the video. Amazing, I didn't know brass gives better sound. I found this one at amazon too:
http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-109437-Hig...a/dp/B0097JLRFM

Hats off to brass, I guess. My brass bed must sound good too.
Ad hominem attacks are not Science.

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #22 –
Quote from: NaturalTimbre on
Quote
Rick Schultz (of Virtual Dynamics "fame") used to run an "Oddiophile" series of videos on Youtube.

Thanks for the link, I looked at the video. Amazing, I didn't know brass gives better sound. I found this one at amazon too:
http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-109437-Hig...a/dp/B0097JLRFM

Hats off to brass, I guess. My brass bed must sound good too.



Most people who know better lack the brass it takes to say such things as seem to flow like sewage from placebophile eggspurt mouths.

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #23 –
Arnold,

If I give you the specs of my power amp, is it possible you could you kindly give me your thoughts on the design of the amp? I appreciate your expert opinion.
Ad hominem attacks are not Science.

Oddeofile Amps

Reply #24 –
Quote from: NaturalTimbre on
Arnold,

If I give you the specs of my power amp, is it possible you could you kindly give me your thoughts on the design of the amp? I appreciate your expert opinion.



Better yet make and model. Most amp specs are highly incomplete. Other information can be discerned from schematics, etc.  Most user spec sheets are online if you have the make and model.