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Topic: Headphones for Engineering? (Read 6039 times) previous topic - next topic
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Headphones for Engineering?

Well, I'm just about to start an audio engineering course so need to get myself properly kitted up.  What I'm looking for is a set of headphones (I'd imagine the more neuteral sounding, the better) for around £110 (possibly a bit more).  I'm not bothered about names/designs, but they need to be quite comfortable as I'll be wearing them for some time...  I know I could probibally have answered my question by searching, but I was hoping to get a pair recommended specifically for this purpose.  Thanks guys.

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #1 –
Etymotic
Nov schmoz kapop.

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #2 –
I tryed some HD 250 yesterday, and they were very comfortable.

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #3 –
At the risk of getting flamed by all of the Sony bashers, the V6 model is probably one of the most widely used in studios, and they can be had for $60.

AKG would probably be in there too.

There is a difference in what sounds good for home use (Sennheiser, etc.), and what gets used for mixing work.

Edit:  Have you looked around here http://head-fi.org
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #4 –
Quote
There is a difference in what sounds good for home use (Sennheiser, etc.), and what gets used for mixing work.

Interesting point of view (no sarcasm), could you explain why ? Id have thought that "good" headphones was defined regardless of the use, exept for special cases (closed headphones for helicopter pilots).
I've finally come to the conclusion that hi fidelity gear was not different regarding techno or classical music, classical lovers saying about bad devices that they're "good for techno", and techno lovers saying about the exact same bad devices that they're "good for classical".
The same can be said for encoders, dynamics compression plays a role, but it's only indirectly related to the musical genre. Some will say that industrial electronic "music" has the most killer sample, but that would be forgetting about harpsichord killing MPC.

Maybe for professional use a flat frequency response is more important than anything else. Is this what you meant ?

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #5 –
If you could extend your budget a little you can get the HD600's in the UK for £150, google for Superfi.
daefeatures.co.uk

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #6 –
Quote
Maybe for professional use a flat frequency response is more important than anything else. Is this what you meant ?

Yes. It's not exactly my opinion, but one that I hear expressed often.
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #7 –
Ok, Thanks guys.  I'll try them out/

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #8 –
Quote
At the risk of getting flamed by all of the Sony bashers, the V6 model is probably one of the most widely used in studios, and they can be had for $60.

After looking at the specs for the MDR-V6, they're nearly identical to my main set of cans (Denon AH-D550).  They even look somewhat similar.  I've also read reviews of both describing of a sort of "plodding" or "mechanical" quality to the sound... maybe Sony and Denon traded some technology.



The main difference seems to be smaller drivers on the V6 (40mm, vs. 50mm in the Denons) and a "bigger" brand name.

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #9 –
Pio2001,

let my try and explain.

I've come frome where I think you are now.

That is: a good headphone is a good headphone, regardless of the use.

However, I've since then revised my view a little, after having bought and used over half a dozen 150 + euro headphones.

Let me try and illustrate this with a couple of personal examples.

I use ultrasone HFI-650 for critical listening, such as training my ear and listening to artifacts. They are quite sensitive, quite neutral in their amplitude response and in subjective terms highly analytical.

I can hear high frequency artifacts or near masked artifacts with these headphones that I will miss with AKG K-270 Studio headphones.

However, Ultrasones are a real pain for almost any kind of musical enjoyment. They give me excessive and somewhat quick listening fatigue. I just want to take them off my head and not to listen to anything for a while.

Also, the very commonly used description of hearing the notes rather than the music, is very applicable to HFI-650. I don't know how to describe it, my words fail me. It's as if the flow of concentration in the music is more easily lost and the emotional connection is harder to achieve.

Also, modern compressed elctronic or pop-music is almost intolerable on them at times.

However, AKG 270S is another very useful pair. It is sufficiently detailed enough for me to for example do mixing work and do it 8 hours straight. However, it is not that revealing for the smallest of artifacts. However, in mixing it's more important to remain functional for a long time, even if that means you will miss some of the tiniest artifacts.

In fact, this is IMHO one (not the only) of the reasons why Genelec studio monitors are so popular. They are sufficiently detailed (you can easily get more detailed monitors) while still remaining very listeneable for a long duration at a time. A balance between analytical accuracy and a sound that you can tolerate.

Now, back to AKG K270S. They will not however cause any listening fatigue for me and the soundstage they produces is less cavernous and artifially wide (compared to HFI-650).

Now, these are very subjective and personal definitions, but for me they define the uses of these headphones.

I have also a few other headphones, which have different uses.

So, you see, at least for me it's not just the sound quality that defines what is the best for me, it's also the use that defines the best headphone.

Pick the right tool for the job, so to speak.

YMMV, of course.

regards,
Halcyon

PS To the original poster: The Sonys in question are a decent headphone for audio engineering, imho. If you need isolation, go with HD280 Pro or Ultrasone HFI-650 DVD edition (less analytical, more bass) though as the Sonys will give you almost no isolation from outside noise. However, if you're going to be using these a lot, do try out them first. I've spent a lot of money on headphones that didn't fit my head or made me want to scream after a while (due to their sound).

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #10 –
I'd recommend the HD 280 pro to anyone who has a headphone amplifier (or is willing to buy one) and desires linear response characteristics: I'd wager there are more HD280's used professionally than there are MDR-V6's.

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #11 –
Quote
Sonys will give you almost no isolation from outside noise.


While sony's don't give as much isolation as the HD-280's, they still provide some isolation (they are closed headphones).

Generally the HD-280's will give more isolation, flatter response, and less bass. The V6's have a slightly recessed midranged (emphasized lows and highs), and are more comfortable (especially when upgraded with Beyer pads). I'd recommend the V6s. Read headwize.com and head-fi.com for more information.

Quote
After looking at the specs for the MDR-V6, they're nearly identical to my main set of cans (Denon AH-D550). They even look somewhat similar. I've also read reviews of both describing of a sort of "plodding" or "mechanical" quality to the sound... maybe Sony and Denon traded some technology.
The main difference seems to be smaller drivers on the V6 (40mm, vs. 50mm in the Denons) and a "bigger" brand name.


Actually, the V6's have a 50mm driver I believe. Anyway, comparing specs doesn't tell you a damn thing at all as far as relative sound quality of headphones. For example, If you were to compare the specs between the Sony V6, Sony V600, and Grado SR80, you'd find they all seem pretty good from the specs. In reality, they all sound completely different. V600 are an absolute waste of money (horribly recessed midrange, muddy and over-emphased bass), V6's are great but closed, and Grado SR80 are fantastic but open. The only way to compare headphones is to listen to them, and talk to other people who have listened to them.

But you do happen to be correct in that the Denon's do sound similar to the V6s. Many people actually prefer Denon 950's over V6s; they are suppose to sound more open. They do cost about $40 more though.

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #12 –
Quote
Actually, the V6's have a 50mm driver I believe.


http://www.audioreview.com/Headphones/Sony...27_2750crx.aspx

(just do a little google-ing)

Quote
Anyway, comparing specs doesn't tell you a damn thing at all as far as relative sound quality of headphones. For example, If you were to compare the specs between the Sony V6, Sony V600, and Grado SR80, you'd find they all seem pretty good from the specs. In reality, they all sound completely different. V600 are an absolute waste of money (horribly recessed midrange, muddy and over-emphased bass), V6's are great but closed, and Grado SR80 are fantastic but open. The only way to compare headphones is to listen to them, and talk to other people who have listened to them.


I'll buy listening to them, but in my experience talking to others who have listened often engenders as much additional confusion as it does clarity -- sometimes more.

Quote
But you do happen to be correct in that the Denon's do sound similar to the V6s. Many people actually prefer Denon 950's over V6s; they are suppose to sound more open. They do cost about $40 more though.

Not surprising, as the 950's are open-air type phones, and the V6's are closed phones. 

There's too much similar between the V6 and the Denon 550's to infer much difference in sound -- prices are similar, they're both a closed-type design, neodymium driver magnets, similar impedances, similar design/construction, driver sizes are similar, frequency range is similar, sensitivity is *identical*, they're both 'mid-fi' (sorry for the term) Japanese brands.  Yes, they could sound somewhat different but there's enough there to make an educated inference, in my opinion.

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #13 –
Quote
I'd wager there are more HD280's used professionally than there are MDR-V6's.

I would take that bet, but alas, there is no way to get a definitive answer.
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #14 –
Quote
After looking at the specs for the MDR-V6, they're nearly identical to my main set of cans (Denon AH-D550).  They even look somewhat similar.  I've also read reviews of both describing of a sort of "plodding" or "mechanical" quality to the sound... maybe Sony and Denon traded some technology.



The main difference seems to be smaller drivers on the V6 (40mm, vs. 50mm in the Denons) and a "bigger" brand name.

Just to be clear, that photo is not an MDR-V6, the image on audioreview is wrong. That's an MDR-V600.

BTW Here's a couple photos of my MDR-V6 (along with a Sennheiser HD580)
Pic1 | Pic2

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #15 –
fewtch:

Yeah, Sony's own website (http://www.sonyproaudio.com) on the MDR-7506 (same as V6 except gold plug) lists the drivers as 50mm. That is wrong, you are right.

Anyway, about the specs, yeah those headphones have similar specs, but like I said, that USUALLY doesn't mean much as far as sound quality. So just to help everyone out, I'm saying listen to both, don't even bother with specs. That is a general consensus among those at headwize and head-fi.

Denon AHD-950 are closed headphones BTW...

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #16 –
I have the MDR-V600 and the MDR-V6. There is a huge difference in quality. The V600's suck badly.

The V6 are what some people consider accurate, but harsh. For me, they sound like studio reference speakers strapped to my head.
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #17 –
Quote
fewtch:

Yeah, Sony's own website (http://www.sonyproaudio.com) on the MDR-7506 (same as V6 except gold plug) lists the drivers as 50mm. That is wrong, you are right.

Anyway, about the specs, yeah those headphones have similar specs, but like I said, that USUALLY doesn't mean much as far as sound quality. So just to help everyone out, I'm saying listen to both, don't even bother with specs. That is a general consensus among those at headwize and head-fi.

Denon AHD-950 are closed headphones BTW...

Looks like you're right about the 950's being closed (incorrect information on the site I looked at, vs. all the rest)... I stand corrected.

Fair enough as far as comparing sound quality too -- it's always better to actually listen vs. making "educated guesses" that could turn out to be totally incorrect.

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #18 –
Quote
Just to be clear, that photo is not an MDR-V6, the image on audioreview is wrong. That's an MDR-V600.

BTW Here's a couple photos of my MDR-V6 (along with a Sennheiser HD580)
Pic1 | Pic2

This stupid "audioreview.com" site has misdirected me *twice* today...

http://www.audioreview.com/Headphones/Sony...27_2750crx.aspx

That's the last time I ever visit that farked up website, whoever runs it must be suffering brain damage.  Not only is the picture wrong, but the "Compare Prices" links section on the above page (supposedly for the MDR-V6) all link to the Sony MDR-V250V (!)

Anyway, your pictures look even more like the AH-D550 than the V600 does.  Not saying that makes them sound the same, just noting for "posterity" -- it figures that Sony and Denon may be sharing the same supplier for parts of the external housing.

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #19 –
The Beyerdynamic DT-250 phones are used quite often by radio stations or as monitor phones (at concerts for example). Not sure if they are used in mastering/mixing. Good sound, extremely durable, comfortable (velour circumaureal pads ), great isolation from outside noise (16db?). The 80 ohm version can be driven even by regular portable devices. People praise them for their extension to very low frequencies. Some DJs use them because of the sound isolation even though the ear cups don't swivel. Ca 150€.

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #20 –
not used much for monitoring but excellent for engineering nonetheless are an older pair of stax with a driver unit.  you might be able to find a pair of stax sigmas used for around two hundred if you look hard enough.  imo, the only cans mentioned that can touch them would be higher end senns and that would at the sacrifice of a decent amount of 'headstage'.

Headphones for Engineering?

Reply #21 –
Amen on the Stax!

I have two paris of cans that I alternate between depending on my mood, mostly... Grado SR325s, and Stax SR-Xmk3 (with SRD-7 driver unit and Hafler SE240 power amp).  The Staxs have incredible resolution - especially in the midrange, as an Electrostatic transducer should.  The Grados have more detailed lower midrange and bass, and the bass is much more bountful, however the top end is a little sizzilier.

I have used the Staxs in a mixing situation along with some Genelec monitors, they compliment each other quite well.  The comment about Genelecs being detailed enough to use as a mixing tool, while musical enough to listen to all day certainly applies to Stax headphones.

I love the sound of my Grados, but I wouldn't mix with them.

--jeff