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MPC hardware support ! How much would you pay .., for a DVD player with MPC SV7 decoding ?
A DVD player with MPC decoder ... Would you buy one, and how much would you be willing to spend for it ?
A DVD player with MPC decoder ... Would you buy one, and how much would you be willing to spend for it ?
I would buy this DVD player at once, and pay 100,- for it [ 16 ] ** [10.46%]
I would buy this DVD player at once, and pay 150,- for it [ 18 ] ** [11.76%]
I would buy this DVD player at once, and pay 200,- for it [ 19 ] ** [12.42%]
I would buy this DVD player at once, and pay 300,- for it [ 15 ] ** [9.80%]
I am interested and would maybe buy it later, for 100,- [ 12 ] ** [7.84%]
I am interested and would maybe buy it later, for 150,- [ 25 ] ** [16.34%]
I am interested and would maybe buy it later, for 200,- [ 7 ] ** [4.58%]
I am interested and would maybe buy it later, for 300,- [ 4 ] ** [2.61%]
What is MPC ?? Never heard of it .... [ 10 ] ** [6.54%]
I am using MPC, but i am not interested in a hardware player [ 27 ] ** [17.65%]
Total Votes: 204
  
ChristianHJW
post Oct 21 2003, 12:53
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Hi,

one wish out front to the Vorbis and AAC users : Please keep out of this thread, ok ??

This poll here is not to discuss about patent problems, technical feasibility, and whether you think there is value for such a unit or not. It is only ment to give voice to MPC users who would be interested in such a unit, and how much they would be willingly to pay for it, thats it !

Background information :

We are talking to several companies right now who are manufacturing DVD players with MPEG4 support about a matroska implementation into these units. At least with one of these companies our conversations have reached an interesting level.

Most of these units do support Ogg Vorbis already, thanks to the tremor library. I was talking to them lately about adding MPC SV7 support also and was pointing them to Frank's L-GPL libs in C, which would compile fine on their C Linux development environments once some modifications had been made to it, like replacing all floats, etc.

About potential patent problems :

We have not been discussing this in detail yet with them, but these are the points to consider :

1. Is a decoder also subject to patent violation, or is it mainly the encoder ?
2. MPC is not known in the industry at all, so who cares ?
3. These guys pay MP2 licensing fees anyhow ( for VCD/SVCD/DVD support ), so maye all formats derived from it are covered in this licensing already ?

Again, please lets not start a flame war here about if these considerations are true or not, we are not in this state yet. This poll has only one purpose, to show to them if there was interest in such a unit. Period.

Christian
MPC and matroska project admin


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sony666
post Oct 21 2003, 13:15
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100 $/EURO is the absolute maximum I would fork out for any kind of standalone player
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kode54
post Oct 21 2003, 13:25
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I sort of agree with sony666, to a certain extent. I may be willing to pay more in the future.

God damn, I said MTRH. Too many fucking cat avatars. :B


QUOTE
I am using MPC, but i am not interested in a hardware player [ 3 ]

Peculiar...

This post has been edited by kode54: Oct 21 2003, 13:31
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ChristianHJW
post Oct 21 2003, 13:30
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QUOTE (sony666 @ Oct 21 2003, 12:15 PM)
100 $/EURO is the absolute maximum I would fork out for any kind of standalone player

You are aware that this player will also play your DivX/XviD/MPEG4 movies, plus Ogg Vorbis and maybe even AAC files ? Again, this is not only a MPC player, and not only a normal DVD player ..... the one i wanted even had a network connection for my local LAN biggrin.gif ....


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niktheblak
post Oct 21 2003, 13:32
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I would consider it even if it was only implemented on high end (300 - 500 euro) MPEG-4 DVD players.

I'm mostly interested in high end DVD players because of the progressive scan feature. I've entered that world few months ago and never want to go back to interlaced image smile.gif

Most of the current MPEG-4 DVD players offer progressive scan, and are firmware upgradeable. If one of those players got Matroska or just MPC SV7 support, I'd be really interested. Most of my music is in MPC format, and it would really mean lot to me to be able to play these MPC CD's on a DVD player.

@ ChristianHJW

Are you referring to the KiSS DP-500 player tongue.gif

This post has been edited by niktheblak: Oct 21 2003, 13:34
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kode54
post Oct 21 2003, 13:35
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QUOTE (ChristianHJW @ Oct 21 2003, 05:30 AM)
You are aware that this player will also play your DivX/XviD/MPEG4 movies, plus Ogg Vorbis and maybe even AAC files ? Again, this is not only a MPC player, and not only a normal DVD player ..... the one i wanted even had a network connection for my local LAN biggrin.gif ....

Not directed at me, but...

I am aware of this. I won't be piping my spare 25ft of cat5 cable from the den to the living room to network my DVD player. I'd probably also buy my first portable player before I buy a DVD machine that supports these formats.

I may spend more time in front of my computer than I do outside of my house, but a portable player does come in handy for those few times each month that I may be out on an extended trip.

A stand-alone player would be nice, but I don't see myself buying one in the immediate future. It might be a step towards portable player support, though. It all depends.
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sthayashi
post Oct 21 2003, 13:42
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Damn you ChristianHJW, I had to go looking around online to see how many Euros there are in a US Dollar (a figure I don't keep track of since I never go to Europe) smile.gif . At any rate, I put down I MIGHT by one later at $150. The biggest reason for that was that earlier this year, I realized it would be much more prudent to purchase and build a small media center computer that should be able to play back any format that has windows development.

Truthfully, I would prefer a portable hardware MPC player. Not for the audio portions of movies, but for music. But you didn't askd about that.
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tigre
post Oct 21 2003, 14:00
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QUOTE (ChristianHJW @ Oct 21 2003, 04:30 AM)
You are aware that this player will also play your DivX/XviD/MPEG4 movies, plus Ogg Vorbis and maybe even AAC files ? Again, this is not only a MPC player, and not only a normal DVD player ..... the one i wanted even had a network connection for my local LAN biggrin.gif ....

I will build such a DVD player - not now but later - and will most likely spend more than 300 for components: Silent PC, good Soundcard, TV out, digital TV card, big HDD(s), DVD drive, remote controll ... as sthayashi said:
QUOTE
I realized it would be much more prudent to purchase and build a small media center computer that should be able to play back any format that has windows development.


Probably I would buy a portable with MPC support.


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sony666
post Oct 21 2003, 14:13
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QUOTE (ChristianHJW @ Oct 21 2003, 02:30 PM)
QUOTE (sony666 @ Oct 21 2003, 12:15 PM)
100 $/EURO is the absolute maximum I would fork out for any kind of standalone player

You are aware that this player will also play your DivX/XviD/MPEG4 movies, plus Ogg Vorbis and maybe even AAC files ? Again, this is not only a MPC player, and not only a normal DVD player ..... the one i wanted even had a network connection for my local LAN biggrin.gif ....

Yes, I am aware of that...

Look, my local gas station is selling standalones for like 59 Euro with mp3/WMA, Kodak photoCD and whatnot support. From a consumer point of view, that fancy mpeg4 stuff and mpc would justify a price increase of max. 5 Euro imho. Its just another chip from Taiwan for a few cents smile.gif
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ChristianHJW
post Oct 21 2003, 14:45
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QUOTE (sony666 @ Oct 21 2003, 01:13 PM)
Look, my local gas station is selling standalones for like 59 Euro with mp3/WMA, Kodak photoCD and whatnot support. From a consumer point of view, that fancy mpeg4 stuff and mpc would justify a price increase of max. 5 Euro imho. Its just another chip from Taiwan for a few cents smile.gif

So lets wait until someone in Taiwan makes a chip that decodes MPC wink.gif .....

The company we are talking to are working hard to differentiate their units from exactly these cheapo units, by implementing support for a huge variety of different audio and video formats, as well as offering new services that are unknown for typical standalone units so far.

This is only possible because they are using a platform that does allow to add new formats by compiling existing sourcecode on a kind of Linux platform, but in a special version for a small programmable unit. Needless to say that such a unit has to have a much higher price than other, simple DVD players with a standard, unflexible one-chip solution.

Anyhow, i am quite happy about the results of the poll so far. Its not even one day old, and there are a couple of people with a real interest in such a unit.

What i will do now, i will contact the guys and offer them to order 50 units on my own costs, if they implement MPC SV7 decoding based on Frank's decoder library. I will ask them for a nice discount for the units, and we start distributing them here amongst the MPC fans. To make sure i get rid of the 50 units we will hold the MPC firmware upgrade back until i sold all 50 of them ..... smile.gif smile.gif ... what you think biggrin.gif !!!


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ErikS
post Oct 21 2003, 15:09
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Btw, I hope you don't forget the integerized version of the decoder that cb2000 made. Could save some work for your hardware friends.
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sony666
post Oct 21 2003, 15:29
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Ok, some people are the cheap consumer type, and some don't mind spending a little dough to live on the bleeding edge of home entertainment....

Of course I wish you all the best for your enterprises wink.gif
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ChristianHJW
post Oct 21 2003, 16:20
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QUOTE (ErikS @ Oct 21 2003, 02:09 PM)
Btw, I hope you don't forget the integerized version of the decoder that cb2000 made. Could save some work for your hardware friends.

ohmy.gif ohmy.gif !!!

ErikS, you're a star ! I downlaoded them from rarewares and sent it to the developers of the company. Its only 27 KB as sourcecode, and 17 KB compiled biggrin.gif biggrin.gif !! Great, just great ! Thanks a lot, i had no idea !!


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Eli
post Oct 21 2003, 16:26
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Christian,
I would be very interested in this as I would like to stream from a central medai center.

I am even more interested in a portable MPC player. Maybe you should be in contact with RCA as their new lyra product supports an awful lot and I would gladly pay a premium for MPC support.


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eric.cheminot
post Oct 21 2003, 16:37
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Well, due to the price of a good power supply and good converter, plus the fact that there is not a very huge market... I have voted for $/300 option. Not that I'm willing to pay more but because it seems for me more realistic for a good-sounding device - and if one needs MPC, this should be to have a good sound, IMHO.

-ec
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sthayashi
post Oct 21 2003, 16:58
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QUOTE (ChristianHJW @ Oct 21 2003, 09:45 AM)
The company we are talking to are working hard to differentiate their units from exactly these cheapo units, by implementing support for a huge variety of different audio and video formats, as well as offering new services that are unknown for typical standalone units so far.

This is only possible because they are using a platform that does allow to add new formats by compiling existing sourcecode on a kind of Linux platform, but in a special version for a small programmable unit. Needless to say that such a unit has to have a much higher price than other, simple DVD players with a standard, unflexible one-chip solution.

If you could get DVD-A on there as well, I would consider spending the equivalent of 300 Euros.
QUOTE
What i will do now, i will contact the guys and offer them to order 50 units on my own costs, if they implement MPC SV7 decoding based on Frank's decoder library. I will ask them for a nice discount for the units, and we start distributing them here amongst the MPC fans. To make sure i get rid of the 50 units we will hold the MPC firmware upgrade back until i sold all 50 of them

I really hope that you were just joking with this part.
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clintb
post Oct 21 2003, 18:00
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What kind of network support are we talking here? If it did something like what a slimp3 or audiotron does along with having the disc player built in, I'd buy it in a minute for even more money.

Features I want:
MPC decoding
Audiotron drive mapping or SliMP3 type of streaming server support.
DVD Playback w/progressive
CD/CD-RW playback of mp3/mpc
IR control

Features I don't care about:
Built-in hard disk. (That's what my server is for)
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thop
post Oct 21 2003, 19:13
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I don't think there is much interest. I'm sure that not even 0.1% of the general public even heard about MPC and probably only 10% of the tech savy guys.

I don't know how many people on HA use MPC, but i'm betting it's less than 30%, and they are the codec freaks!! ph34r.gif

Not to discourage you or anything but i think the monetary perspective looks rather slim. I don't think thats what drives you though. You know what they say: If it feels right, do it! smile.gif
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sthayashi
post Oct 21 2003, 19:19
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QUOTE (thop @ Oct 21 2003, 02:13 PM)
I don't know how many people on HA use MPC, but i'm betting it's less than 30%, and they are the codec freaks!! ph34r.gif

STFU

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=2404&

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smok3
post Oct 21 2003, 19:32
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that would depend on the release date, i guess in a year or two i would pay 50 euros for a 'standalone' pc with all this features... (and more)


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CiTay
post Oct 21 2003, 20:42
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QUOTE (smok3 @ Oct 21 2003, 08:32 PM)
that would depend on the release date, i guess in a year or two i would pay 50 euros for a 'standalone' pc with all this features... (and more)

How should this be possible with a quality product? Good components always cost money, and they will also cost money in 2 years. 50 Euro is way too optimistic if you ask me.

Me, i would pay 150 Euro for a DVD player with these features, good audio & video quality and the necessary output connections.
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smok3
post Oct 21 2003, 21:22
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i was thinking more in the line of 'are standalone black boxes with play button really a future' ?


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mtth.th
post Oct 21 2003, 21:49
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I have (sadly) nothing really interesting to add, but I can say than I will be really happy if such a player ever exists, and I will buy it in weeks !
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snek_one
post Oct 28 2003, 21:30
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i vote for the portable player with mpc support..

don't really need a dvd player which does that since my computer is my entire entertainment system.. it's got everything in one little case smile.gif


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ty1er
post Oct 28 2003, 21:56
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QUOTE
i vote for the portable player with mpc support..


I would love an portable/car mpc player. Something like the kenwood music keg.
for the last two years i have been encoding most of my music collection into the mpc format, and all a long having wishfull thinking that eventaully there will be hardware support for musepack SV7 and up smile.gif

-ty1er

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