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Vorbis Decoder
adam777
post Oct 2 2005, 10:29
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OK.
Now that i've settled on my desired Encoder (aoTuV b4 @ q6) i want to ask about the Decoder.
Currently i'm using Winamp builtin vorbis Decoder (Nullsoft Vorbis Decoder 1.41) - any one have any comments about this decoder (quality...).
Also, can any one tell me what decoder would you recommend using (should the Nullsoft decoder isn't good).
Thanks, Adam.

PS.
I'm pretty much clueless regarding those audio issues, so should my question turns to be completely dumm ("Decoder?! who cares?" and stuff like this...) - let me know, but take it easy... smile.gif
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HbG
post Oct 2 2005, 11:45
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Short answer: there are no bad vorbis decoders, they're all good.

Long answer available on request. smile.gif

Nullsoft did once write a bad decoder for MP3, but that was long ago.


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Veni Vidi Vorbis.
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adam777
post Oct 2 2005, 11:52
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QUOTE (HbG @ Oct 2 2005, 04:45 AM)
Short answer: there are no bad vorbis decoders, they're all good.

Long answer available on request. smile.gif

Nullsoft did once write a bad decoder for MP3, but that was long ago.
*


Thanks, HbG.
Now that the practical side is covered (i can continue using Winamp wink.gif ).
Would you mind explain to me why isn't the decoder type all that important (that what i understood from your answer - correct me if i'm wrong).
I mean, there are a lot of Encoders comparisons, doesn't the decoder count?
Thanks.
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HbG
post Oct 2 2005, 12:08
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No, the decoder doesn't count. Vorbis is a format and the decoder turns data in that format into regular audio data with a fixed set of rules, this is what defines the format. The "intelligence" is in the encoder, which has to make use of the format as efficiently as possible. Same goes for formats like MP3 and AAC. This is also why decoding happens much faster than encoding.

In addition to this, there's really only one vorbis decoder used in PC software, written by Xiph themselves, all software uses this decoder and therefore ogg files will decode exactly the same regardless of the software you use. There are exceptions to this, but it's generally the case.


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Sebastian Mares
post Oct 2 2005, 12:24
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I don't think that is true - at least not with every format. How come some decoders are better than others like you already said about the old Winamp MP3 decoder (was it Nitrane?)?


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http://listening-tests.hydrogenaudio.org/sebastian/
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kjoonlee
post Oct 2 2005, 13:08
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They were buggy. If decoders aren't buggy, they should all effectively sound the same.


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http://blacksun.ivyro.net/vorbis/vorbisfaq.htm
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adam777
post Oct 2 2005, 13:42
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QUOTE (HbG @ Oct 2 2005, 05:08 AM)
No, the decoder doesn't count. Vorbis is a format and the decoder turns data in that format into regular audio data with a fixed set of rules, this is what defines the format. The "intelligence" is in the encoder, which has to make use of the format as efficiently as possible. Same goes for formats like MP3 and AAC. This is also why decoding happens much faster than encoding.

In addition to this, there's really only one vorbis decoder used in PC software, written by Xiph themselves, all software uses this decoder and therefore ogg files will decode exactly the same regardless of the software you use. There are exceptions to this, but it's generally the case.
*


You learn something new everyday... smile.gif
Thanks.
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HbG
post Oct 2 2005, 14:37
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QUOTE (Sebastian Mares @ Oct 2 2005, 03:24 AM)
I don't think that is true - at least not with every format. How come some decoders are better than others like you already said about the old Winamp MP3 decoder (was it Nitrane?)?
*


I'm not aware of buggy decoders in PC software today however, i'm sure there are one or two exceptions but i think for all practical purposes you can consider it true. And like kjoonlee said, it was buggy. More strictly speaking, nitrane isn't a mp3 decoder smile.gif


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Garf
post Oct 2 2005, 17:29
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Almost all MP3 decoders are buggy when they have to decode (for example) MPEG 2 Layer III with intensity stereo. It's just not used a lot so people don't notice.

Even LAME's mpglib is.
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yulyo!
post Oct 2 2005, 17:41
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Short question
A friend that use Linux told me that in Linux the music sound better as Win. more dynamic
He also told me that in win he has noise on the output from the integrated sound (the sound integrated on the mb) and in linux...there's nothing
Are linux decoders better than win or...
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Mr_Rabid_Teddybe...
post Oct 2 2005, 17:53
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QUOTE (yulyo! @ Oct 2 2005, 08:41 AM)
Short question
A friend that use Linux told me that in Linux the music sound better as Win. more dynamic
He also told me that in win he has noise on the output from the integrated sound (the sound integrated on the mb) and in linux...there's nothing
Are linux decoders better than win or...
*

That must be down to buggy soundcarddrivers if that is the case (or different soundcards if different machines where used). Otherwise, I think we can pin it down to placebo (or wishful thinking).


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ears
post Oct 4 2005, 18:03
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Does anyone have a working link to download in_vorbis.dll for Winamp 2.81, preferably a recent version? Could I install Winamp 5 and copy the .dll over to my 2.81 install? Are all the input .dlls compatible between versions 2 and 5?

I remember there being some talk of PP updating the .dll but users complained that it would no longer play 'broken' .oggs. Was there a playback issue with the original version that neccessitated an update?

Thanks in advance.
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ears
post Oct 4 2005, 22:16
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Just a quick follow up.

I installed Winamp 5 on an old machine and copied the in_vorbis.dll over to my main 2.81 install. It seems to work fine, cpu usage looks the same; I'd give it a thumbs up for now, but I'll let it run for a while to see if it hiccups.
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aspifox
post Oct 28 2005, 16:07
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QUOTE (HbG @ Oct 2 2005, 10:45 AM)
Short answer: there are no bad vorbis decoders, they're all good.
*

Try Tremor in low-precision mode on a low-bitrate stream and see if you still think so. laugh.gif

I think at least one portable player even shipped like that. ohmy.gif
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cartman
post Oct 28 2005, 16:24
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QUOTE (yulyo! @ Oct 2 2005, 08:41 PM)
Short question
A friend that use Linux told me that in Linux the music sound better as Win. more dynamic
He also told me that in win he has noise on the output from the integrated sound (the sound integrated on the mb) and in linux...there's nothing
Are linux decoders better than win or...
*


No, actually (and sadly) there are more mp3/aac decoders (with high quality) for Windows compared Linux.


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