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iTunes Downloads aren't transferable, your collection goes with you to the grave.
2Bdecided
post Sep 3 2012, 13:22
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http://news.sky.com/story/980139/bruce-wil...tunes-downloads

I wonder where HA regulars' sympathies lie in this case?

I guess Bruce could easily afford to buy copies of all his music for his kids right now if he wanted, and it would be cheaper than the lawyer's fees for this case - so I wonder who is sponsoring this, or what's really made him bring it?

In an all virtual world, do we have+leave an inheritance? Would you pay more to do so? Do you think Apple and the record companies are being unfair? Or do you think people are stupid for believing they've bought a perpetual transferable right when they haven't?

My kids prefer Spotify and YouTube anyway, so wouldn't see the point of "buying" something virtual. Though they all know how to use a record player. smile.gif

Cheers,
David.

P.S. I'd never thought about this before, because I buy CDs wink.gif . I'm almost certainly in breach of the law, because I already let anyone in the house have a physical or virtual copy of them - and that's before I'm dead. When I'm dead, I think my family will think there's far too much physical media to deal with - and they'd probably think the same if it was all virtual (though it would be easier to dump).

This post has been edited by 2Bdecided: Sep 3 2012, 13:25
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db1989
post Sep 3 2012, 14:20
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I think it’s basic sense that the customer should be able to pass the rights to anyone, at any time, as long as they cease to use the item. But I suppose that’s being idealistic/naïve in applying concepts of physical goods to virtual ones? I’ve never liked the idea that one merely licenses the latter and thus in theory can have them revoked at any time. I don’t see how that setup, largely symbolic, combats piracy or whatever.

So, abstract thinking aside, I do kinda hope that something comes out of these cases aiming to win more rights for customers of digital media. I do, of course, look forward to seeing what everyone else thinks, as they might know what they’re talking about. tongue.gif
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Engelsstaub
post Sep 3 2012, 14:55
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The fact that a song/album downloaded from iTunes will play on other devices almost makes this a moot point. If Apple wanted to be douchebags, and suspend an account for the child of a deceased parent's use of said parent's' account, one could simply start getting the rest of their music elsewhere.

My brother and daughter both log in to iTunes with my credentials since I don't personally need my iTunes library on 5 computers. Unlimited devices/iTunes Match. ...we're all good.

...but I think maybe Willis has a point and is right to address it. Hopefully Apple can see the wisdom and justice in making this exception in their EULA. My experience with Apple tells me they are loathe to piss off their own customers.



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Porcus
post Sep 3 2012, 15:11
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Recall the Eminem case:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120210/...hos-suing.shtml
Universal still maintains that iTunes downloads are sales -- even after they lost: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100903/15093610898.shtml


IMO, imbalanced contractual relationships (type: consumer vs. professional; in this case, vs. the world's largest corporate with virtually unlimited access to lawyer), should whenever necessary, be levelled through statutory rights. Type “this is fair use and cannot be bargained away by consumer”.

(Where was this software license where any bug would incur a payment from end user to the copyright holder? The application was -- according to the license -- priced proportionally to the number of bugs. A joke thing to prove that people don't read licenses.)


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2Bdecided
post Sep 3 2012, 16:13
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It makes sense to be able to sell something on - though it's much easier to keep track of that with physical assets.

With an mp3 file, I must be honest enough to want to pay for it in the first place, and you must be honest enough to delete your copy when I have paid for it. Any failure of honesty changes the total value of the product (by perfectly duplicating it).

Whereas, when selling a CD, one person has the CD, and the other doesn't. One may keep a copy, but the copy has less value than the original, even though it changes the total value of the product (by somewhat duplicating it).

With "perfect" DRM (yes, I know, I know - hypothetical world) there's no way for both people to keep a copy, so the product keeps its full value because neither side has the opportunity to be dishonest (beyond simple fraud/theft, which maintains the product value but causes one person to lose out somehow).


You know, I'm not sure this is black and white. Both the physical and virtual world have their issues. Maybe some wise but non-biassed person has thought this through? I have this feeling that it's somehow reasonable to treat virtual and physical purchases differently (probably because perfect copying is possible with the former), but I'm not sure I can back it up, so I may be wrong.

Cheers,
David.
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greynol
post Sep 3 2012, 16:47
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Did Bruce consult with Clint Eastwood and John Voight first?


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jayess
post Sep 3 2012, 17:54
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To clear up some of the confusion:

"Part of the problem is that with digital content, one doesn’t have the same rights as with print books and CDs. Customers own a license to use the digital files — but they don’t actually own them."

http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-08-23...pple-and-amazon

I told the wife and kid they're not buying anymore Apple or Amazon digital garbage...
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Kohlrabi
post Sep 3 2012, 18:37
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I question whether it is a good idea to base a case on complacent ignorance. But it's good that these kind of licenses are looked at, maybe they are partly illegal, but nobody dared to run against all those lawyers, yet.

This post has been edited by Kohlrabi: Sep 3 2012, 18:39


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smok3
post Sep 3 2012, 19:26
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i fear for apple if Chuck Norris joins in.

...Blackouts are caused by Chuck Norris charging his iPhone.
Chuck can turn an apple into apple sauce just by looking at it.
When Siri is trying to find something, it asks Chuck Norris....


This post has been edited by smok3: Sep 3 2012, 19:31


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onkl
post Sep 4 2012, 00:23
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I guess this is a problem that 's going to vanish once the transition from buying downloads to cloud based streaming is complete. Then you merely pass your playlist and anyone can listen to it once he paid the monthly fee (for Spotify & Co). You never owned it, you simply selected your personal favourites and payed for the streaming service.

On a side note, I doubt many kids have much interest in their parents music collection.

This post has been edited by onkl: Sep 4 2012, 00:24
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nastea
post Sep 4 2012, 00:52
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I don't know... I want to own my music. The biggest part of my music collection are cd's I bought in stores, and I listen to it in my home on a decent music stereo system.
I would never pay to download mp3's or for streaming services, it's only interesting when it's free.
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Satellite_6
post Sep 4 2012, 02:37
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CD's!!!!!!!!!! Obviously the way to go.


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RobertoDomenico
post Sep 4 2012, 05:40
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Bruce Willi's's wife on TWITTER said the story is untrue.
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DigitalDictator
post Sep 4 2012, 14:30
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CD's are obsolete IMO. Where the heck are you supposed to store all your CD's once you have obtained a decent collection? I have a large collection stashed in the basement, under a ton of rubbish, so I can't even imagine trying to go and get one of them if I needed to. I haven't had a CD-player in years.
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jayess
post Sep 4 2012, 14:38
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QUOTE (DigitalDictator @ Sep 4 2012, 08:30) *
CD's are obsolete IMO. Where the heck are you supposed to store all your CD's once you have obtained a decent collection? I have a large collection stashed in the basement, under a ton of rubbish, so I can't even imagine trying to go and get one of them if I needed to. I haven't had a CD-player in years.


I use Sterilite CD storage containers that I purchase at Walmart, they're about 7" wide by about 10" long. I save the artwork and put the CD in a paper sleave after ripping it, then ditch the jewel case, which is most of the bulk and weight. Unless of course the CD came in a paper based container instead of a jewel case. It's worked very well for me to cut down the weight and clutter of a large collection. It's also a great way to transport the ones I purchase on trips.
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jayess
post Sep 4 2012, 15:43
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Meanwhile in other Itunes news, what is the FBI doing with all these Apple ID's and how did they get them?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/201...onymous-claims/
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DigitalDictator
post Sep 4 2012, 15:55
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QUOTE (jayess @ Sep 4 2012, 15:38) *
QUOTE (DigitalDictator @ Sep 4 2012, 08:30) *
CD's are obsolete IMO. Where the heck are you supposed to store all your CD's once you have obtained a decent collection? I have a large collection stashed in the basement, under a ton of rubbish, so I can't even imagine trying to go and get one of them if I needed to. I haven't had a CD-player in years.


I use Sterilite CD storage containers that I purchase at Walmart, they're about 7" wide by about 10" long. I save the artwork and put the CD in a paper sleave after ripping it, then ditch the jewel case, which is most of the bulk and weight. Unless of course the CD came in a paper based container instead of a jewel case. It's worked very well for me to cut down the weight and clutter of a large collection. It's also a great way to transport the ones I purchase on trips.


It's still quite a hassle. I use Spotify like many people over in Europe and my CD's are transferred over to my iPod Classic which is hooked up to my sound system. I don't care much for the artwork, even though I try to add the cover to the AAC-file whenever I can, or bother.
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Kohlrabi
post Sep 4 2012, 16:12
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QUOTE (DigitalDictator @ Sep 4 2012, 15:30) *
CD's are obsolete IMO. Where the heck are you supposed to store all your CD's once you have obtained a decent collection? I have a large collection stashed in the basement, under a ton of rubbish, so I can't even imagine trying to go and get one of them if I needed to. I haven't had a CD-player in years.
Of course, pure digital file distribution would be more desirable, but as long as you only get licenses and lossy files in most online stores, CD is the best format, still.


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2Bdecided
post Oct 5 2012, 17:29
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The same battle is now being fought elsewhere...

I'd never heard of ReDigi until this news article...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19842851
...seems EMI really doesn't like the idea of you re-selling your paid-for music files, even using software which does everything it can to keep you honest (i.e. it prevents you from keeping copies).

Cheers,
David.

This post has been edited by 2Bdecided: Oct 5 2012, 17:30
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eahm
post Oct 5 2012, 17:49
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The other big question is: why people like Willis buy hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of digital content then think about what they're going to do with it next? Don't they want to see what they can do with it BEFORE buying it? Few years ago a customer had $25,000 of music on his iTunes library.

"If it's Apple, I am going to buy it. I don't care if they're going to rip me off, it's what they have to do to survive and I support them."

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simonh
post Oct 5 2012, 20:34
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It is amazing that these music industry people seem intent on alienating everyone. Including paying customers:

"US digital music sales are set to surpass CD and vinyl sales for the first time ever this year, according to research firm Strategy Analytics.
It estimates that digital sales will rise to $3.4bn (£2.1bn), compared to $3.38bn for physical sales." (from link in 2bdecided's post earlier).

Anyway, Bruces' problem is not one any rational person should have. My reasoning is that since I can't possibly comply with the ridiculous licence agreements, I might as well obtain music through other means. I'm going to break the law either way but at least I haven't funded these control freaks in the process.
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yourlord
post Oct 5 2012, 21:46
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Most of the music in my Library is sourced from CD's I've purchased at used CD shops.. I no longer even buy CD's new unless it's directly from an artist/band's site. If they don't have a way to get a CD directly from them then I'll generally buy at least one album retail just to support them. Beyond that I go all used CD's. I've spent the last year or so deleting the stuff I don't care enough to bother finding a used CD for, and the rest I've been actively hunting down used CD's at good prices then deleting the lossy version and ripping the CD to FLAC.

I do not purchase music files from online stores unless they offer free lossless formats and don't have BS terms that try to retain ownership of the files. That pretty much means I don't buy music files online.. I'll stick to CD until such stores come online, or CD's disappear. If CD's go away without comparable rights online stores then I'll simply stop buying music.
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Wombat
post Oct 5 2012, 22:57
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This is not exactly related to download services only but shows how to self-destruct its own business by silly marketing strategies that insult honest customers.

I became cautious buying CDs that have a so called high resolution audiophile version around.
It seems that on purpose the CD is of inferior sound quality against a hires download even if it doesn´t have to.
Just try the latest Norah Jones regular CD against the 24/44.1 HD download. (I only can offer a 10sec sample i found of the beginning of track 2 when needed, if someone owns both versions he may offer a longer sample)
For roughly 3dB more loudness the Cd version is clearly distorted. I doubt these 3dB more uncompressed, less distorted dynamics is only possible because of the additional 8 bit wink.gif
Looking over dr.loudness-war.info seems to underline my fears. Often the hires version have better DR values.
Another thing is that i wanted to buy the recent Sean Rowe album as CD until i noticed the Anti label he is signed on starts to sell such so called 24/44.1 HD versions on a download service that doesn´t sell to my country. In my country i found no download service with the same content.
Since i don´t know if they broke the CD version by purpose to make the HD version sound better i decided to not buy anything at all.

A side anectode is that while looking over the Anti homepage i found a video clip they provide for fans of Tom Waits, linked to youtube. Me as german also is NOT allowed to see that.
"This video is not available in germany because of bla... GEMA bla... no rights bla"

I really feel pissed as customer by the weird marketing strategies atm or i simply misunderstand the situation badly.
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ron spencer
post Oct 6 2012, 00:38
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Why is this a problem...if you have no drm on your files, then copy *.* to USB stick...easy. Hopefully he was not stupid enough to buy drmed files...me I have none thankfully.
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Soap
post Oct 6 2012, 00:51
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(In the USA):

If iTunes downloads become officially personal property, and thus transferable upon my death, they'll need to be inventoried and assessed during probate.

Considering the RIAA appears to have set civil precedent that a track is worth upwards of $10,000 I will bankrupt my family through estate taxes.

No thanks! wink.gif


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