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Vinyl Defect, or part of the music?
Grey
post Apr 22 2008, 16:29
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A strange noise is briefly audible at 1.4 seconds, and it's on both my vinyl copies of this album.

intro.flac (1mb)

My guess is that it's a manufacturing defect, but I'm not sure. Any suggestions on how to remove it?
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Raiden
post Apr 22 2008, 16:56
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http://www.mediafire.com/?nmxdhyinzom

Izotope RX --> spectral repair function
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Cygnus X1
post Apr 22 2008, 17:00
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It sounds like a studio noise to me, as it's too indistinct from the music to be a vinyl defect, IMO. Those typically stand out/above the music, while this one is integrated into the background. It's also in the almost dead center - most manufacturing defects I've found on vinyl are usually different between channels. Just a guess, though.

Perhaps it's something in somebody's pocket jingling, a fingernail running across a rough surface, etc.?
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MLXXX
post Apr 22 2008, 17:25
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QUOTE (Grey @ Apr 23 2008, 01:29) *
A strange noise is briefly audible at 1.4 seconds, and it's on both my vinyl copies of this album.

The brief funky sound (a ratchet like sound) seems to fit in rhythmically and stylistically. I think it could well be part of the performance. (You may notice that when the musical phrase starts up again the drummer starts playing the high hat, so probably no need for any funky sound the second time through.)

I wouldn't bother trying to remove it myself.
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Grey
post Apr 22 2008, 19:24
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I'm still undecided, but I'm leaning toward removing it - especially since Raiden did nice job with it (thanks!).

There's no way to know for sure, but I'm thinking it's probably a defect. I noticed a few other defects that were obviously not part of the music such as deep "pops" or "thuds" that were dead center and apparent on both copies in the same position. This one however, doesn't seem unnatural.
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NogginJ
post Apr 22 2008, 19:34
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if it was a defect i think it seems weird it'd be in the same place on two different copies of the record.
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pdq
post Apr 22 2008, 19:52
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QUOTE (NogginJ @ Apr 22 2008, 14:34) *
if it was a defect i think it seems weird it'd be in the same place on two different copies of the record.

Not if the defect was in the master.
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digital
post Apr 23 2008, 10:33
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Can't say I recognize the artist, who is it? If I were you, I would be tempted to email the creator, the band or the label. I 'speak' with artists quite often via email; in this day and age of electronic communications, they’re not nearly so 'distant' as one might think.

If you choose to do so, perhaps you'd let us know what they tell you. I too hear a lot of weird background sounds in files I audition for the site, and its always something in the studio; a bracelet rubbing along the neck of a guitar, an object dropping to the floor or someone moving something in the studio at the time the track is being recorded. It turns out that musicians often leave these ‘real-moment’ artifacts in for what appears to be ‘kicks’…

Andrew D.
www.cdnav.com
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cliveb
post Apr 23 2008, 10:41
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QUOTE (Grey @ Apr 22 2008, 19:24) *
I'm still undecided, but I'm leaning toward removing it - especially since Raiden did nice job with it (thanks!).

There's no way to know for sure, but I'm thinking it's probably a defect.

That depends what you define as a "defect". I am 99.9% convinced this is not a vinyl defect. It sounds very much to me like something that happened in the studio as the recording was made. Perhaps the drummer brushed against something. Given the nature and timing of the noise, it could even be deliberate.

But even if it's a performance error, should you "fix" it? In my view, vinyl restoration is nothing to do with altering the performance. But then again, I can understand that if you think it's a mistake and it irritates you when you hear it, then by all means remove it. Of course, every time you do listen to it, you'll be wondering: "should I have removed that noise"? This noise will forever haunt you, whether or not you remove it.
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Grey
post Apr 23 2008, 12:24
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QUOTE (digital @ Apr 23 2008, 05:33) *
Can't say I recognize the artist, who is it? If I were you, I would be tempted to email the creator, the band or the label. I 'speak' with artists quite often via email; in this day and age of electronic communications, they’re not nearly so 'distant' as one might think.


It's Duke Tumatoe. He has replied when I asked simple questions like "Are there plans to release this album on CD?" (No), but didn't respond when I asked something that required a detailed answer. It's probably because he's busy with constant touring. I'm not sure he'd remember a fine detail about a recording he made 22 years ago, but I suppose it couldn't hurt to ask.

I think I'll avoid "repairing" this for now - at least until I finish restoring the rest of the album.
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Grey
post May 3 2008, 13:06
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I've got another one. Again, both copies of the album, in the same position. This time I'm more convinced that it's a defect. The flaw can be heard at 1.7 seconds.

end.flac (263kb)

I tried removing it with iZotope RX, but didn't have much luck. I'm still learning how to use that one. I might just leave this one alone unless somebody has a better idea.
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carpman
post May 3 2008, 13:47
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How does this sound?
http://www.giantpygmy.net/stuff/end_repaired.flac

C.


--------------------
TAK -p4m :: LossyWAV -q 6 | TAK :: Lame 3.98 -V 2
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Grey
post May 3 2008, 16:17
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QUOTE (carpman @ May 3 2008, 08:47) *


Sounds great. Thank you.

But I'm curious to know how you removed it.
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carpman
post May 4 2008, 00:02
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I'm glad you like it. biggrin.gif It sounded okay to me too.
But curiosity killed the cat; I'm concerned that if I tell you how I did it you may not listen to it again with the same enjoyment. But if, after that mysterious warning, you are still curious, I'll gladly explain.

C.


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TAK -p4m :: LossyWAV -q 6 | TAK :: Lame 3.98 -V 2
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MLXXX
post May 4 2008, 02:43
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QUOTE (Grey @ May 3 2008, 22:06) *
This time I'm more convinced that it's a defect. The flaw can be heard at 1.7 seconds.
Yes the sound in question is very noticeable. In my opinion it is indeed a flaw and could not possibly have been part of the intended performance. The sound is not dissimilar to a scratch on a record, or -- what it may well have been -- a tape splice.

This post has been edited by MLXXX: May 4 2008, 02:51
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Grey
post May 4 2008, 04:25
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QUOTE (carpman @ May 3 2008, 19:02) *
I'm glad you like it. biggrin.gif It sounded okay to me too.
But curiosity killed the cat; I'm concerned that if I tell you how I did it you may not listen to it again with the same enjoyment. But if, after that mysterious warning, you are still curious, I'll gladly explain.

C.


It appears that you didn't alter any more than 841 samples. And since it's a major improvement, I'm not going to have a problem with it.

I was just curious to know so I might try the method for myself in the future. But if you don't want to give up your restoration secrets (nice website), I'll understand.
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carpman
post May 4 2008, 04:52
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Hi Grey

No! Not worried about restoration secrets (don't think I have any smile.gif) . It was just that it was such a butcher's job that I thought if you were something of a purest, the thought of my rusty scalpel cut & paste style surgery might forever stick in your mind and make you physically sick every time you heard the passage biggrin.gif

I don't like these kinds of glitches - as they're not clean crisp clicks which are much easier to remove, rather this was a duller thuddy click. Consequently, as you obviously realised it took up a good many samples.

So, sometimes (depending on the music) it's possible to do the following:

(B = glitch sample and G = good sample and G =copy):

Original:
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGBBBBBBBBBGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

"Repaired"
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

i.e. I just bounced down a load of preceding samples and shifted them across and faded them in/out pretty accurately. So now you're hearing 2 very small bits of the same music together - but even with a good number of samples it's hard to notice because there's not a great deal of deviation in the music - from memory it was one long chord gradually getting quieter.

Glad to be of help.

C.


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Grey
post May 4 2008, 06:26
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It's less a butcher job than what I was considering. That was to simply delete the samples and live with a less noticable defect.

Thanks for the tip.
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