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-->to Dibrom, hearing loss question
salpro
post Jan 29 2003, 23:48
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l'enfer est pavé de bonnes intentions
in my country doctor is synonym of a wise person
my advice is still the same
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Artemis3
post Jan 30 2003, 00:02
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QUOTE (Gregory Abbey @ Jan 26 2003 - 10:52 PM)
I'm afraid to tell you that once your ear is damaged, it's permanent. The condition symptoms are (in this case) a constant `ringing' in the ear (especially at night and first thing in morning) and an `over sensitive' response to high frequency causing discomfort.

I can confirm this because i have it. Can't describe its level. But in my opinion, its not so that you have it worse at night or wake, it just seems that this permanent "noise" (very high pitch in my case, its like a 14khz or something) gets masked easily (in my case) with outside noise. When everything "outside" is silent, the noise becomes very apparent. I can't also stand certain high pitched noises, in my case not from TV or monitor (maybe im just used to) but example, a gas kitchen set in a very low, almost closed position emits this high pitch noise i can't stand. I also hear it in some diesel bus i use from public transport (near the engine, at the back) it really drives me nuts wacko.gif

How it happened to me? Some guessing: First when i was more young my parents used to take me "too much, and too many times" to parties with very loud speakers. Also when i was like 15 or something a firecracker (inside a plastic tube that blew as well opening my hand) exploded from my closed hand, it made me really deaf for like 15 mins (couldn't hear my own voice, not even yelling) and the "ringing" was so strong it made my head hurt so much and i didn't notice for like 2 mins that the hand where i had the cracker got hurt a little with some little bleeds and all...

My memory tells me this kind of noise in my head used to go away after sleeping from a long party, but from some years since, the noise didn't go anymore and its with me, always. I don't think its so loud tho, its easily masked with any subtle noise. I guess my condition could be much worse, and i don't know what others are experiencing. Never gone to any doctor to check it.


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scottc
post Jan 30 2003, 00:59
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Does anyone have a link to what is considered "normal" hearing for a given age? Most of what I find on Google relates to serious hearing loss (as in high frequency threshold <10kHz).

I'm 26, and above 16kHz my hearing is unreliable, but I've read in a few places (including here, I think) that the practical threshold of adult human hearing is around 16kHz anyway. I certainly don't feel like I have a hearing problem, but I'd like to know if I've got the beginnings of a problem so that I can do something before it's too late.


I agree with Artemis3. I have a touch of tinitus as well. I think it's alway there, but I only notice it when it's really quiet, i.e. the middle of the night and the PC in the next room is off. I guess I'm lucky. I've never had any pain or discomfort with it.
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AtaqueEG
post Jan 30 2003, 02:27
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[/QUOTE]
i'm also a doctor, since i agree with the fact the one must go to ear specialist giving corticosteroides doses for people to use is not right since you should notice the corticosteroids are given in various way that depends on the pathologies and can not be generalized to everyone

[/QUOTE]
I would be the last person to give irresponsible advise. Notice the date of the thread start and the date I posted. I really want to help this guy, but you know, if you are a doctor you´ve heard the saying: "prima non nocere" (first of all, do not harm). I believe in this so I really researched this, asking for side effects and such. As I said, I´m no ear specialist (if you must know, I am an orthopedic doctor - I fix broken bones and joints - so I know my way with steroids). But my friends came up with this, which is, if I may, a "safe" dose: it is not that low, but it is for a brief period of time. You know that sometimes it is best to do a little at first than a lot too late. Anyway, I DID state that the guy should still see a real otorrinolaringologist (or whatever they call them in his country), as should anyone with a hearing problem. Anyone can do anything they please, the guy just sounded like he was in a real trouble (did you read what he posted about the appointments in his country?) and I felt like he would do better dealing with a real doctor (even if it is on an audio compression forum wink.gif ) than just reading articles on Medline and drawing his own conclussions.
If you must know, I PM´d him so he could talk to me further.
Greetings, colleague


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AtaqueEG
post Jan 30 2003, 02:32
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QUOTE (jesseg @ Jan 29 2003 - 06:41 PM)
i know this is off topic, but since your a doctor im wondering - what did you think of bush's address (if you watched it) when he talked about healthcare??  just talk or do you think he and congress will actually umm... do something??

Even though I live in Mexico and, as you know, it is one of the closest countries in the world to the US (not geographically, I mean) I still haven´t heard a thing about it. You know, in here, we get mostly new about his war-mongering.
I am reading the review of his speech on another site and I´ll get back to you.


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Pio2001
post Jan 31 2003, 00:45
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As Artemis3 and Scottc, I've got a permanent tinnitus that I can notice in quiet places. I've got it from the age of 4 at least. It must come from the otitis I've got when I was 3. I can hear up to 16 kHz (barely). The tinnitus doesn't annoy me at all. Since I've caried it all my life, I can't even imagine what it would be without it. For me silence=ringing biggrin.gif
I was not hurt by high pitched noises. I came several times in clubs where the sound could be up to 120 db on the dance floor, what increased the tinnitus very much for several days after it (and reduced the hearing to about 14-15 db, I would say).
But one time was too much. I went into a club where the music was nowhere below 110 db (so I couldn't rest my hearing for all the night), and with loud basses. Once out, in addition to a very noticeable loss in treble (like if I had turned down the treble control of an ampli) and a strong tinnitus that sounded like a cluster of ringing tones from 2000 to 20000 Hz, I realized that I had become sensitive to very low frequencies (20- 30 Hz). I stopped listening with headphones, and the symptoms began to decrease after one week.
It took several weeks (monthes ?) for me to be able to hear a 16 kHz tone again. Since then, I dislike high pitched sounds, and I can't stand headphones or speakers with too much of the 4000-8000 Hz range.
Maybe it's psychological, because these sounds don't hurt me at all. I just don't like them. Maybe I'm just fed up of my previous headphones : Sony MDR-1 from the age of 7 to the age of 12, Sony MDR-32 from 12 to 15, Superex pro-B VI from 15 to 24, AKG K-400 from 24 to 27, and Senheiser HD-600 now.
As the ones who know these heaphones can see, I was used to listen only to treble biggrin.gif. Only with the AKG I began to get a little more bass.
So listening to these headphones for years, sometimes loud, that play mostly treble, can have increased an intolerance for treble sounds.
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jesseg
post Jan 31 2003, 01:20
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im glad ive been using bassey cans i guess then, i used to listen to cans pretty loud, now about... 100db tops, usually 70-90db for listening "loud" because i wanna have en around for a while.

i can say i agree with your ringing... i was at an aphex show in 97 that was LOUD and i heard it for 2 days, but it went away. I was also at the only Mental Destruction show ever in this hemisphere laugh.gif That was fiukin loud... outdoor, in fact another stage manager came over to yell at the sound guy to turn it down. about 3 football feilds away this nice mccawley speakers / custom boxes / all macrotech power large system was so loud that far away it needed to be turned down.

i was basically in the front, with the mud put and the freaky dudes right in front.... so it was dang loud, i heard that whole festival for 3 days at least... but i dont recall any instant change that lasted very long, luckely.

if i goto loud shows, i bring earprotection, not the best for listening but if its music that i dont care a wholelot about (i also contract for a concert video company) then ill pop em in and not worry. someday i hope to have some hifi plugs that just attenuate the volume. =)

anywho, been using sony7506 for a while and lovin it, also have the hd600s... great cans smile.gif
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scottc
post Jan 31 2003, 01:28
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Clubbing is what worries me. It's not so bad in Amsterdam. Most of the clubs here are in residential areas so the sound systems are relatively tame, but I used to live in Edinburgh where clubs are often in basements carved out of solid rock and the sound levels get up to ridiculous levels. I experienced the "week of tinnitus" effect a few times over there, and it wasn't fun. I think that's where my current low-level problem has come from. (Why are the best spots always right in front of a speaker? rolleyes.gif )

On the other hand, I wouldn't swap the last 8 years of clubbing for anything. Nothing beats jumping up and down in front of some flashing light to get rid of the stresses of the week tongue.gif . It's not as if I'm going to do it forever. I'm already bordering on being that creepy guy who's just a little bit too old to be there wink.gif , but I'd feel better if I knew another few years weren't going to cost me a few kHz off my hearing threshold for the rest of my life. I think that would be a Bad Thing.

Has anyone tried earplugs when they're going to go somewhere loud? I've tried the foam plugs and they were awful, but I've heard there are better models used by musicians. The last time I was in the UK, Richer Sounds were even selling some, but they were out of stock. Any suggestions?
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rohangc
post Jan 31 2003, 07:26
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I know how it feels to lose hearing. About three months ago, I tried to clean my ears and ended up with 80% loss in one ear along with persistent ringing and other crazy sounds. I went to a doctor (a general practitioner) who told me that a membrane in my ear was ruptured and I had to take medicines and walk around with cotton stuffed in my ears all the time protecting my ear from loud sounds. I had to do this for a whole month!!!!! ohmy.gif After a month, I went to the same doctor who panicked when I told him that there was no improvement. He told me that I had to undergo a surgery and reffered me to a surgeon. I almost pissed in my pants!!! A surgery? Well, I went to the surgeon that evening and he looked at my ear. He simply shoved an instrument in my ear and pulled out a ton of solid, hardened wax. Apparently, while cleaning my ear, I had pushed the wax into my ear so badly that it had clogged my ear-drum. Imagine my relief when I could hear perfectly-after a whole month of fear and depression. blink.gif The moral of the story is this: The problem might not be as bad as you think it is. Consult a good doctor-maybe two. Make sure there is consistency in their diagnosis. Take care. Hope you get well soon. I know what you are going through. Our prayers are with you.

This post has been edited by rohangc: Jan 31 2003, 07:28
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Pio2001
post Jan 31 2003, 12:29
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QUOTE (scottc @ Jan 31 2003 - 03:28 AM)
I've tried the foam plugs and they were awful, but I've heard there are better models used by musicians

I've heard about special plugs that you can have made according to a moulding of you ear channel. Expensive, and needs much care about hygiene.

I didn't try foam plugs with music.
I used some "Boules Quiès" in clubs. Quite uncomfortable, but cheap and effective. According to a consumer association magazine (60 millions de consommateurs) testing various products, they were the best shot among all ear protections available.
You can have their frequency response in the link above.
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TarX
post Feb 1 2003, 02:31
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Woow could you buy me some of these and ship those to Germany ?

i would pay you for that ofcourse biggrin.gif

(I can pay with PayPal)

This post has been edited by TarX: Feb 1 2003, 02:31


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tigre
post Feb 1 2003, 10:25
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QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Jan 31 2003 - 03:29 AM)

@TarX
I hardly understand any French, but the pictures on their website remind me of "Ohropax" (Wax covered with cotton). In Germany you can get in every pharmacy. BTW if you google for "Gehörschutz" you'll find a great variety of products and shops, e.g. sonicshop.


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ssamadhi97
post Feb 1 2003, 10:49
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QUOTE (TarX @ Feb 1 2003 - 02:31 AM)
Woow could you buy me some of these and ship those to Germany ?

Why don't you just get --> these instead?


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jesseg
post Feb 1 2003, 10:54
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QUOTE (ssamadhi97 @ Feb 1 2003 - 03:49 AM)
QUOTE (TarX @ Feb 1 2003 - 02:31 AM)
Woow could you buy me some of these and ship those to Germany ?

Why don't you just get --> these instead?

these also looked nice, too bad no chart over 8k... blink.gif
http://www.sonicshop.de/De/Plugs/MusicSafe_II.htm

[edit]
english link
[/edit]

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jesseg
post Feb 1 2003, 10:56
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rofl.... what is "the secret of the two lamellas"?
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Pio2001
post Feb 1 2003, 14:11
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The Boules Quiès looks exactly like the "Original Ohropax
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tigre
post Feb 1 2003, 14:33
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QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Feb 1 2003 - 05:11 AM)
The Boules Quiès looks exactly like the "Original Ohropax"

Yes, and Babelfish just told me that it's made of the same ingredients (Mineral waxes covered with cotton).


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scottc
post Feb 1 2003, 15:38
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Useful site, and it comes in English too! biggrin.gif Thanks ssamadhi97.

These http://www.sonicshop.de/En/Cont/Plugs/Individuals.htm look great, but they only seem to sell replacement filters.

I think I might order a set of MusikSafe II and a set of UltraTech to compare.
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