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Problem with --vbr-new and Iriver Clix
JYoda
post Jul 3 2006, 16:51
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After discovering my new Clix doesn't display ogg tags (forget about album art), I decided to encode my flac collection to Lame instead. Per recommendations on this board, I used --vbr-new -V 5 for encode. The problem is that *some* songs start with a click or pop and the total time indicator on the device is wrong. This doesn't happen when I use the old vbr. The problem with the old setting is that it takes a long time to convert (not to mention it has fallen from favor as the best Lame setting to use).

Is there something I can do to get Lame --vbr-new to work? Maybe some command line option for stricter compliance (I know - it's probably a bug in the Clix firmware). Anyway, I like the device but it sure seems like they want you to use WMA on the thing. It seems like everytime I get a new DAP, I have to go through this.
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darky
post Jul 3 2006, 17:23
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Do you have the newest firmware installed? If you are not sure go to http://www.iriveramerica.com/support/mtpupdate/ and follow the steps.


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portable: 128 kbps cbr AAC
local: -7 FLAC
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JYoda
post Jul 3 2006, 17:48
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Yes, I do have the latest firmware.
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Never_Again
post Jul 6 2006, 05:14
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Do clicks still occur when you have the EQ on? Do you use LAME for tagging, and if yes, what is the complete command line?
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audiomars
post Jul 6 2006, 06:30
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QUOTE (JYoda @ Jul 3 2006, 21:21) *
----snip----
*some* songs start with a click
----snip----


Isn't that why they call it the Iriver Clix laugh.gif laugh.gif. Never mind, couldn't resist!!

This post has been edited by audiomars: Jul 6 2006, 06:30


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evereux
post Jul 6 2006, 07:21
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I don't see why the different VBR modes should produce files that behave differently. What version of Lame are you using and how are you creating them?


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greynol
post Jul 6 2006, 08:29
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Is it possible that you're hearing the end of the previous track at the beginning of the current track because of where the tracks are being split on the source CD?

I've seen this numerous times and fixed it by ripping with an offset.


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Your eyes cannot hear.
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sony666
post Jul 6 2006, 08:33
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The only difference outside of the LAME tag I can think of right now is that vbr-new uses a LOT less scalefacs than vbr-slow and cbr.
Gabriel or Robert to the help smile.gif
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sTisTi
post Jul 6 2006, 14:35
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QUOTE (JYoda @ Jul 3 2006, 17:51) *
Is there something I can do to get Lame --vbr-new to work? Maybe some command line option for stricter compliance.

Have you tried --strictly-enforce-iso? It is now enabled by default in the latest 3.98alphas, but not yet in 3.97 beta1/2.


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Proverb for Paranoids: "If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers."
-T. Pynchon (Gravity's Rainbow)
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JYoda
post Jul 6 2006, 17:23
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QUOTE (Never_Again @ Jul 5 2006, 23:14) *
Do clicks still occur when you have the EQ on? Do you use LAME for tagging, and if yes, what is the complete command line?


The clicks occur regardless of EQ. I use Foobar2000 for tagging...and I'm starting to suspect this is a tagging issue. If I remove the tags completely the problem goes away. I haven't been able to find a pattern though. For example, it will happen with just one song on an album. Still investigating.

QUOTE (sTisTi @ Jul 6 2006, 08:35) *
QUOTE (JYoda @ Jul 3 2006, 17:51) *

Is there something I can do to get Lame --vbr-new to work? Maybe some command line option for stricter compliance.

Have you tried --strictly-enforce-iso? It is now enabled by default in the latest 3.98alphas, but not yet in 3.97 beta1/2.



I'm using 3.97b2 through foobar2000. I'll try the flag when I get the chance however it's starting to look like a tagging issue. If I remove the tags on the suspect files and reload the device, the click goes away. I haven't been able to discern a pattern. At first I thought WMP might be appending invalid or suspect tags (since the device is MTP) but I turned that feature off and I still see the behavior. Thanks.
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kjoonlee
post Jul 6 2006, 17:29
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Which version of foobar2000? Which sorts of tags (e.g., APEv2, ID3v2) do you have on your files?


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http://blacksun.ivyro.net/vorbis/vorbisfaq.htm
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grommet
post Jul 6 2006, 18:03
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Since you mention using WMP (10 or 11) with your Clix... do note that most products do not support ID3v2.4 tags and WMP is no different. The Windows shell doesn't either. (And WMP definitely doesn't do APEv2 tags at all.) For ID3, foobar2000 only supports writing ID3v2.4 and legacy ID3v1.1. If WMP reads anything, it'll probably be the old ID3v1.1 at the end.

Not exactly sure why tags would cause your Clix issues... that's just odd. I guess you might have found a bug you'll need to report to iRiver. It really shoudn't care about extra tagging -- it should just ignore it.

Anyway, if your goal is to use these MP3 files with Clix + WMP... I'd suggest sticking with MP3 ID3v2.3 & ID3v1.1 and avoid the trigger.
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JYoda
post Jul 6 2006, 18:53
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I'm using the latest foobar2000 - I just downloaded it last week for it's ability to mass convert flac to mp3. I've been trying to find a way to mass convert the ID3v2.4 tags to ID3v2.3 without having to re-encode. Any suggestions? I looked at MP3tag but haven't figured out how to do it.

It may well be a bug in the Clix firmware although iriver claims ID3v2.4 support. Anyway, I'll continue to investigate and post any findings.

Thanks everyone.
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ilikedirtthe2nd
post Jul 6 2006, 19:38
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QUOTE (JYoda @ Jul 6 2006, 17:53) *
I'm using the latest foobar2000 - I just downloaded it last week for it's ability to mass convert flac to mp3. I've been trying to find a way to mass convert the ID3v2.4 tags to ID3v2.3 without having to re-encode. Any suggestions? I looked at MP3tag but haven't figured out how to do it.

It may well be a bug in the Clix firmware although iriver claims ID3v2.4 support. Anyway, I'll continue to investigate and post any findings.

Thanks everyone.


Set tags to id3v2.3 iso-8895-1 in "extras - tags - mpeg - writing" re-save tags (select, click disk-button). You can check which type of tags your mp3s currently have in file context properties.
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JYoda
post Jul 7 2006, 06:19
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My latest findings: I converted an album from flac with foobar2000 using vbr-new. I used mp3tag to convert the tags to ID3v2.3. I then loaded the files on the Clix and guess what...pops at the beginning of most of the tunes. I then removed even the ID3v2.3 tag leaving just the ID3v1. Loaded it on the device...pops were gone.

Next I converted again using vbr-new with the iso-compliant switch. I just left the ID3v2.4 tags from foobar and loaded the device. The pops and clicks were gone! Strangely enough it seems to be a combination of factors. Very weird.
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grommet
post Jul 7 2006, 06:46
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Uh, that's just strange.

Is mp3tag corrupting something when converting a foobar MP3 with ID3v2.4 to ID3v2.3? (Or at least doing something odd that the Clix doesn't like?)

What happens to content ripped directly to LAME VBR MP3 (and ID3v2.3) without foobar2000 being involved?
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JYoda
post Jul 7 2006, 17:02
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QUOTE (grommet @ Jul 7 2006, 00:46) *
Uh, that's just strange.

Is mp3tag corrupting something when converting a foobar MP3 with ID3v2.4 to ID3v2.3? (Or at least doing something odd that the Clix doesn't like?)

What happens to content ripped directly to LAME VBR MP3 (and ID3v2.3) without foobar2000 being involved?



It is very strange but so far I haven't found any popping using vbr-new with the iso flag and foobar's standard tagging of ID3v2.4 (that's not to say I won't stumble on something). That said, there is definitely a problem with vbr-new and the clix's elapsed time display. For example I have a four minute song that Clix displays as being 9:13 seconds long. The progress bar and time elapsed display move faster than real time when listening to the tune. I guess I'll stick to the old vbr for now and try to nail down the tagging issue.

If wmp and/or iriver would allow syncing of oggs, I'd just go that route. Otherwise, it's been a great little device.
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JYoda
post Jul 8 2006, 15:35
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I've listened long enough to determine that lame vbr-old with the strictly enforce iso works flawlessly regardless of tags. vbr-new with the iso flag plays just fine but the player can't determine the correct song duration.

Am I losing anything by using the iso flag? My understanding is that it's going to be on by default in future releases.
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scarface7810
post Jul 8 2006, 22:52
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I just tested out a few songs with MP3gain before running my whole 3000 songs through it. It showed all my songs to be very off, yet when I had them all converted in track mode and burned onto a cd I wasn't very impressed and even compared it to a before mp3gain cd with the same songs. It didn't seem to correct volume differences all that much, and I think even made some of the tracks sound worse in terms of quality. I'm not sure if the volume differences are because of the quality differences, since on the cd I burned I had songs with bitrates ranging from 128 to 360. Yet some of the low bit rate songs sounded pretty good and some of the higer bitrate songs didn't sound so great. It's kind of depressing. I wish there was a way to make all my mp3s sound better. I don't have the time or money to redo my whole collection. Hardly any of them were ripped, they were all downloaded. I spend tons of money on high quality car stereo and home stereo equipment just to have my mp3s sound crappier than the standard radio stations.
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sony666
post Jul 9 2006, 04:00
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QUOTE (scarface7810 @ Jul 8 2006, 23:52) *
headbang.gif


You really need to lurk a lot more before posting. I wouldn't know where to begin here.
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grommet
post Jul 9 2006, 04:44
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QUOTE (JYoda @ Jul 8 2006, 07:35) *
I've listened long enough to determine that lame vbr-old with the strictly enforce iso works flawlessly regardless of tags. vbr-new with the iso flag plays just fine but the player can't determine the correct song duration.

Am I losing anything by using the iso flag? My understanding is that it's going to be on by default in future releases.
No, you aren't losing anything. You should really get some info to iRiver to fix both issues. Of course, I'd really recommend documenting a "simple" repro... and making some easily created "test" files.

Did you ever try a new rip directly to LAME --vbr-new without foobar2000 being involved? EAC, for example? I don't think I know anyone I can borrow a Clix from to test myself...
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