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Topic: Questions about burning data cd\'s (Read 10697 times) previous topic - next topic
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Questions about burning data cd\'s

I came too the conclusion that i cannot burn cds with musicmatch,when I do they don't play on my home stereo. Or if they do say..I burn 24 songs on a cd and I wanna hear song 1 then wanna skip too song 4 it wont let me..it will only let me skip every other song.example...1,3,5,7, and so forth. Or I can play all the songs back 2 back or sometimes the songs skip too..So now I use nero with no problems I figured I would change the format too wave and then it will play on my home stereo and I can skip all the songs I want and don't want..So now my problem is,I make data cds for friends from time too time..The cds I make will work on my computer but not theres, Does this have anything too do with the Romeo Juliet thing in nero, I f so can somebody please explain it too me..I am running windows 98 se dvd player cdr nothing fancy..Thanx..

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #1 –
Quote
Originally posted by GIRLINTERUPTIN
I came too the conclusion that i cannot burn cds with musicmatch,when I do they don't play on my home stereo. Or if they do say..I burn 24 songs on a cd and I wanna hear song 1 then wanna skip too song 4 it wont let me..it will only let me skip every other song.example...1,3,5,7, and so forth. Or I can play all the songs back 2 back or sometimes the songs skip too..So now I use nero with no problems I figured I would change the format too wave and then it will play on my home stereo and I can skip all the songs I want and don't want..So now my problem is,I make data cds for friends from time too time..The cds I make will work on my computer but not theres, Does this have anything too do with the Romeo Juliet thing in nero, I f so can somebody please explain it too me..I am running windows 98 se dvd player cdr nothing fancy..Thanx..


Are you recording as Data CD or Audio CD?
If you record the Wavs as Data, it won't play on stereo systems.

And Romeo and Juliet doesn't have anything to do with the problems you are experiencing. They are only related to file naming system in data CDs, they don't interfere with Audio CDs.

Hope that helps.

Regards;

Roberto.

Obs: A friendly hint: use <enter> in your posts. It makes them easier to read.

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #2 –
Simple guide...

1. Select "Create CD-Audio"...
2. Drag your WAV files to the track list...
3. Select Joliet format with DAO...
4. Choose the lowest recording speed you can...
5. Hit the burn button and wait for the burn session to complete...
6. Insert your newly burned CD into your CD player and enjoy the music...

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #3 –
Choosing "new audio CD" it won't let you use Joliet, nor Romeo, of course.
Girlinteruptin, a home stereo can't play data CDs. They are for computers.
It sounds that the playback problems with your stereo comes from bad quality CDRs.

If you are using cheap ones with no brand, give them up and buy some good brands :

-Mitsui
-Kodak
-Verbatim Datalife Plus
-TayoYuden
-HiSpace
-Ricoh
-Ritek
...

Some sub-brands that are often good :
TDK
Philips...

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #4 –
Quote
Originally posted by Pio2001
Choosing "new audio CD" it won't let you use Joliet, nor Romeo, of course.
*doh* I was a little bit too quick there to answer...  But you should still use DAO and the slowest possible burn speed... (DAO to be able to burn true gapless tracks and the slowest speed to ensure that the disc works with most players, but also because it can decreas the chances of write errors... )

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #5 –
Hey guys, I think her problem is that her data cds won't read on her friends computers. She fixed her audio cd problem.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure what the problem is. You definitely do not want to use Romeo because this is obsolete; use Joliet. Also, make sure you write only a single session, that you finalize the CDs, and that you use only CD-R (not CD-RW) discs if you want all other systems to read them.

Good luck...

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #6 –
Quote
Originally posted by Sachankara
4. Choose the lowest recording speed you can...
I have always belived this to be more of an 'urban legend'. I can't understand why recording at lower speeds would somehow produce better disks. Our burners and media are designed[/b] for high speed recording.

Furthermore I found an article to back me up:

How Safe is High-Speed CD-Audio Recording?

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #7 –
Ah yes, that article.. older but very useful. Some people just swear by "low-speed" burning of audio CDs. But 16x/24x should be uncritical with decent CD-writers.

One thing that might fuel this myth, though, is the recent bad quality of the 32x and 40x CD-Rs. Also see my post here. I have yet to see a positive review of a 24x+ CD-R... right now, they are unusable.

Why do they sell 48x CD-writers anyway? It's like having a new Ferrari that can go 400 km/h, but needs a new type of fuel that no gas station has. And because of traffic jams, you're only 20 seconds faster than with your trusty old Volkswagen.

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #8 –
Thanks Jens, I was thinking the same thing. Support for the argument is always nice, and the article is a good read...

Personally I have an Creative 8432, and I burn at the max speed (8x) with no problems. But it is writing at speeds 1/4 of the speed you are talking about, so while "fast for me," in the context of the discussion, it is "slow." Hell, I remember burning these things at 1x, and I am not going back to that...
___

OT for current discussion, but on-topic according to thread title:

Apparently nero will auto-restart if there is an error with disc burning. I have no problems with audioCDs, but when doing data CDs I get indiscriminate crashes. Primarily I am burning Shorten arcives, and really just want to burn one folder (which contains .shn, .md5, and .txt files) to a disc. I have tried ISO and UDF. Both formats work (70%), and both crash (30%). I realize that the filenames might be long, so I relax that restriction. I have been unable to find what specifically makes the thing crash (for the record, no other apps are in the fore- or background). I am getting tired of making coasters...

I have asked in this forum, and elsewhere, for a command line to burn a folder (ie: "gd1977-05-08") and its contents to CD-R using cdrdao, but no one has responded. The program's text file says it can be done, but nobody seems able to hook me up. When burning audioCDs with cdrdao via EAC, I have no problems, and would like to rid my need for nero altogether, but I must be able to burn data CDs...

Does anyone here know:

1-what could be causing the crashes in nero when burning data CDs?

2-the command line and syntax (example?) to burn data CDs with cdrdao?

Many thanks.

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #9 –
Quote
Originally posted by JensRex
I have always belived this to be more of an 'urban legend'. I can't understand why recording at lower speeds would somehow produce better disks. Our burners and media are designed for high speed recording.

Furthermore I found an article to back me up:

How Safe is High-Speed CD-Audio Recording?
Well, you've missed one thing... Yes today's burners and media are made for higher speeds, but it does not guarantee that the CD you've burned works in all players... None of my CD players can play CD:s burned higher than 8x... Not even my Rio Volt which is quite new... So that's why you should always use the slowest recording speed when burning Audio-CD:s... For the sake of compatibility...

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #10 –
Quote
Originally posted by Sachankara
Well, you've missed one thing... Yes today's burners and media are made for higher speeds, but it does not guarantee that the CD you've burned works in all players... None of my CD players can play CD:s burned higher than 8x... Not even my Rio Volt which is quite new... So that's why you should always use the slowest recording speed when burning Audio-CD:s... For the sake of compatibility...


a) Your CD-Rs are of bad quality
or
b) Your CD writer produces bad quality CDs for whatever reason

or both.

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #11 –
Quote
Originally posted by JensRex
I have always belived this to be more of an 'urban legend'. I can't understand why recording at lower speeds would somehow produce better disks. Our burners and media are designed for high speed recording.

Furthermore I found an article to back me up:

How Safe is High-Speed CD-Audio Recording?


as I understand it, burning faster results in lower reflectivity, though this should only mean that a player *might* have trouble reading it.  But if it reads it, it reads it, and there really shouldn't be any cause for concern.  I've got an old discman (somewhere, I think I still have it, haha) that wouldn't read 24x burned discs at all when I tried it, but 8x and lower were fine.

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #12 –
No, the reflectivity doesn't change, it depends only on metal and dye layers, burned or not.
Your idea, I think, is that it would change the signal-to-noise ratio of the pit and lands.

Here's a recent post by Mike Richter, against the idea of burning slowly :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eac/message/13627

Quote
I use media which are error-free at my usual write speeds (8x and 
12x in different drives). Those same blanks - currently Mitsui and Kodak - 
at lower speeds in any of my writers have some errors.


I just got a 24x burner (Yamaha CRW3200), and my first 24x burns were recognized by the old Yamaha CDX860 CD player without problem.
I tested them ripping with EAC, no problems, full speed, 100% quality. I'll test again with my new Memorex DVD player, which is much more sensitive to the media (a crappy drive, in other words) and post the results.
By the way, the media was Hi Space CarbonCD 24x.

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #13 –
I forgot : McDaddy, you should have started a new thread with your Nero problem, we're already off-topic with the burning speed discussion...

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #14 –
Quote
Originally posted by CiTay


a) Your CD-Rs are of bad quality
or
b) Your CD writer produces bad quality CDs for whatever reason

or both.
1. I use VivaStar and Verbatim so I doubt it...
2. Lite-On LTR24102B...

Draw your own conclusions... Can't be too difficult to realise that some older CD players simply aren't compatible with fast written media...

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #15 –
Quote
Originally posted by Sachankara

Draw your own conclusions... Can't be too difficult to realise that some older CD players simply aren't compatible with fast written media...


The article was proof that there is no such difference to explain this, yet you try to tell me the opposite? I don't buy that, sorry. Maybe you burned so many CDs that the burner is slowly dying now.. could be anything.

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #16 –
Some older CD drives indeed have problems with CDs that are burned too fast. I have seen an old Sony player that takes minutes to start playing discs written faster than 8X, and sometimes it won't play them at all. I have tried several CD-R models, including ones from Taiyo Yuden and other respected manufacturers. Drives used to burn the discs were brand new Plextors (12x and 16x).

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #17 –
Open the article again, look at tables 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9. The highest increase of the BLER is from 1.0/sec at 8x to 1.5/sec at 12x. This is absolutely nothing!


Sachankara, here is a review, i think these are your Vivastar CD-Rs: http://www.pcwelt.de/tests/hardware-tests/rohlinge/23245/

Let me translate a bit: "The Vivastar proved to be instable. At 16x, the error rates shoot to the sky, no matter which 40xmax-burner we used. Especially to the outer edge, the errors really hit. Also, the 12x speed with Plextor and Benq-Burners was too much for this CD-R. At 8x speed, the error rates finally decreased a bit. We measured an average BLER of 69,77 errors/sec. Maximum BLER amounted to gigantic 279,83 errors/sec. E22-errors were detected on each run. With the Benq-burner, there were even E32-errors. Quality rating very bad."


Maybe now you know why this one doesn't work well with >8x. I'm puzzled about the Verbatim though. Maybe you used the new 32x/40x series? Maybe the worse "super AZO"?

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #18 –
With my Plextor 16/10/40 I got an audio CD written on a CD of dubious quality -- when held up to the light the disc had barely any opacity.

This CD is 72 minutes length burned at 16x 72 minute CD and played thru an OLD Harman/Kardon HD 100 and from start to end I was surprised it had no more problems than any store bought CD's.

The CD player is really, really old and does not have much tolerance to any surface anomalies. In fact a lot of CD's it can not read don't have visible scratches at all. Given the "thin" media I'd have to conclude the burner was the deciding factor here.

Not sure if this relates to BLER and such, all that went over my head.
"Something bothering you, Mister Spock?"

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #19 –
well, my 24x burner changes speeds 3 times during a burn if I burn at 24x.  16x at the start, then 20x, and then 24x, and you can see with your eye where these changes occur because of the drastic colour differences.  I can't attribute that to anything except a change in reflectivity.



Quote
Originally posted by Pio2001
No, the reflectivity doesn't change, it depends only on metal and dye layers, burned or not.
Your idea, I think, is that it would change the signal-to-noise ratio of the pit and lands. 

Here's a recent post by Mike Richter, against the idea of burning slowly :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eac/message/13627



I just got a 24x burner (Yamaha CRW3200), and my first 24x burns were recognized by the old Yamaha CDX860 CD player without problem. 
I tested them ripping with EAC, no problems, full speed, 100% quality. I'll test again with my new Memorex DVD player, which is much more sensitive to the media (a crappy drive, in other words) and post the results.
By the way, the media was Hi Space CarbonCD 24x.

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #20 –
I fail to see a connection between BLERs and absolute reflectiveness.  I don't think the issue is the amount errors in the burn, just how well it reflects.  Some older drives just don't seem to be able to adjust their gain well enough, or something,  to see quickly burned discs.

Quote
Originally posted by CiTay
Open the article again, look at tables 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9. The highest increase of the BLER is from 1.0/sec at 8x to 1.5/sec at 12x. This is absolutely nothing! 

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #21 –
Here is a FAQ I think is worth checking: http://www.cdrfaq.org/
It mentions things like the popular misconception of "translucent media is bad".
\"The R.I.A.A. is out there\"

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #22 –
GIRLINTERUPTIN; I believe for other people to be able to use a data cd created in Nero, they need the free program offered on the Nero site that allows Nero data cd's to be read. Otherwise, only you will be able to use them. http://www.nero.com/en/index2.htm  Look under downloads- UDF Reader. Hope that helps you out- cadabra3

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #23 –
Thank you for answering the original question, but the solution is the other way :
If you indeed need the UDF reader, therefore the CD was burned in UDF, as it should not !
A data CD must be burned in ISO9660 only (plus Joliet).
It's one of the very bad things about the Nero GUI, in my opinion. You have to learn all the standards of the hystory of CD ROMs in order to be able to find the "data" mode among UDF, UDF/ISO, hybrid, ISO9660, VCD, SVCD...
The right answer being ISO9660 !

Same thing for ISO level 2, that is enabled by default ??? , or "also use ISO for Joliet" or whatever they call this nonsense.

Questions about burning data cd\'s

Reply #24 –
Don't forget that the Bler measured in the high speed recording article is only valid for the drive they used. It can be very different with another drive.
I've got a Sony DDU1621 and a Memorex DVDROM 16/40x (that is in fact a LiteOn 133), and the same CD (in bad state) can be read without errors by the Sony, while the Memorex can't. And they both read perfectly freshly burned CDRs.