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Topic: Rockbox for the Ipod finally working (Read 114633 times) previous topic - next topic
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Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #100
I think they don't want to support APE tags because it's position in the file is causing more strain on player memory (can't remember the details, it was in a recent irc log from #rockbox).


Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #102
No they are not up-to-date. I am going to have a deep look at these, to try and apply manually.
[edit:]not up to date but still works. the failing part in the first patch can applied manually quite easily. I will try and make some updated patch.

I would really like to know if this makes ApeV2 replaygain tags compatible with rockbox.
Stupidity is root of all evil.

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #103
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I would really like to know if this makes ApeV2 replaygain tags compatible with rockbox.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=363088"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That would be hot. I do not look forward to rewriting ID3v2 tags for when I do eventually get rockbox on my iPod.
I blow chunks.

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #104
Its now working on the 4G too. A few display glitches, but I'm listening to MPC on my iPod and its very, very sweet.
Edit: I meant 4G grayscale

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #105
Oh goodie.  Once the power consumption is comparable to Apple's firmware, I'll definitely give Rockbox a try.  My own qualm is power.  I put linux on my ipod once and you could literally feel the thing get warmer and warmer, and the battery draining much quicker.

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #106
If it's anything like Rockbox was on my H140 it'll take a little while before they get the power efficiency up to par.  However, it does move pretty quickly.

All you iPod owners will probably feel like you got new DAPs without having to pay anything more and that was a very nice feeling

I'm actually somewhat considering a 4GB black Nano and putting Rockbox on it as a backup (actually tertiary now) player.
Nero AAC 1.5.1.0: -q0.45

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #107
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I would really like to know if this makes ApeV2 replaygain tags compatible with rockbox.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=363088"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That would be hot. I do not look forward to rewriting ID3v2 tags for when I do eventually get rockbox on my iPod.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=363181"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


The developer recently updated the APEV2 patch.  I can't try it as my 3G isn't supported (though that should change soon), but it looks like its up to date.

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #108
Is anybody having glitchy mp3 (320 kbps, FhG in my case) playback on the latest Rockbox for Nano?  I guess the sound output is still being tweaked and/or it could be the full CPU utilization.  Oggs at ~80 kbps seem to play back fine (other than being noisy when initially selected with the navigation buttons).

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #109
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I would really like to know if this makes ApeV2 replaygain tags compatible with rockbox.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=363088"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That would be hot. I do not look forward to rewriting ID3v2 tags for when I do eventually get rockbox on my iPod.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=363181"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


The developer recently updated the APEV2 patch.  I can't try it as my 3G isn't supported (though that should change soon), but it looks like its up to date.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=363435"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Is there any reason the developer can't can't merge the patch in with the main rockbox development? Just wondering since it's an open project.

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #110
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Is there any reason the developer can't can't merge the patch in with the main rockbox development? Just wondering since it's an open project.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=363462"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Quote
I think they don't want to support APE tags because it's position in the file is causing more strain on player memory (can't remember the details, it was in a recent irc log from #rockbox).
Stupidity is root of all evil.

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #111
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Is there any reason the developer can't can't merge the patch in with the main rockbox development? Just wondering since it's an open project.


The patch is in the Rockbox patch tracker, so any user can apply it and compile their own version of Rockbox.

But IMO, the patch isn't optimal - Rockbox already seeks to the end of the file to look for an id3v1 tag, so the search for an apev2 tag could be done at the same time (performing a single seek, and a single read).  That patch adds a search for the apev2 tag after the search for id3v1/v2 tags.

A decision also needs to be made as to how Rockbox should behave if there are id3v1, id3v2 and ape tags all present in the same file.  Currently Rockbox has a setting to give priority to either id3v1 or id3v2 tags in a file.  How should this be extended to include ape in the equation?

The comments attached to the existing apev2-in-mp3 patch say that when a file contains both an id3v1 tag and an apev2 tag, then the id3v1 tag will be at the very end of the file, and the apev2 tag will immediately preceed it.  Is this how the important tagging applications behave?

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #112
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The comments attached to the existing apev2-in-mp3 patch say that when a file contains both an id3v1 tag and an apev2 tag, then the id3v1 tag will be at the very end of the file, and the apev2 tag will immediately preceed it.  Is this how the important tagging applications behave?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=363509"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This is how I've seen it. The idea is that a program that only knows about ID3v1 can only find it if it's at the very end of the file. A program smart enough to know about APEv2 tags can find them even if they're before the ID3v1 tag. The only reason to have both tags there is because you're using (or might use) a mix of players, some of which don't do APE tags. I would say it's also a given that if there's an APEv2 tag there then that would take priority over a ID3v1 tag (which is inferior in every way).

I have not looked at the patch code myself, but there is a subtle problem if you look for the ID3v1 tag first because the "TAG" in "APETAG" can occur in exactly the wrong place to look like a ID3v1 tag! So, the correct sequence is:

1. Look for APEv2 tag at end of file; if it's there you're done (use APEv2 tag).
2. Look for ID3v1 tag at end of file; if it's not there you're done (no tag found).
3. Look for APEv2 tag before ID3v1 tag; if it's there use APEv2, else use the ID3v1

As for the option, I would say that the choice should stay the same because what it's really specifying is whether to look at the beginning or the end of the file first. Now, the search for the ID3v1 tag at the end would also include the APEv2 tag checks as above, and certainly (IMHO) there's no good reason to intentionally ignore an APEv2 tag if it's there. Perhaps the option text should be ID3v2 before ID3v1/APEv2, or something like that...?

edit: fixed confusing logical error about which tag to look for first 

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #113
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If ya'll need some help with that, let me know. I wrote a large part of the iTunesDB entry on the iPodLinux wiki, maybe it would be possible to make the thing capable of reading the normal iPod database (thus making it iTunes compatible... as long as the normal iPod folder structure remains on the thing, iTunes won't know the difference).


Hi, just wanted to say that there is plenty of interest in this from users.  I'd much prefer continuing to use iTunesDB than organizing my music by directories/playlists.  For one, I already have a lot of music already organized this way.  And as you said earlier, it is simply easier to navigate.  Not to mention, if I ever actually wanted to revert back to the Apple firmware I'd wouldn't want to have a bunch of music I couldn't play.  So, if someone could make libitunesdb happen in rockbox that would be awesome.

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #114
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So as I see it: as soon as the the new firmware becomes stable it will be THE solution for people wanting the most out of their digital music. Original iTunes centered firmware will remain the best for n00bs, people who use iTunes as the default player and the iTunes store, and lastly, for those who don't have time and/or lack the will to mess with basic settings. Theese are mostly the same differences as in beetven foobar and Winamp users...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=361569"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Really can't agree with you there. Despite helping where I can with alternative ways to use the iPod, I still use iTunes to sync my iPod. Why? Because it's way more advanced than any other program out there for iPod manipulation.

In point of fact, for the power user, the iPod/iTunes combination has *everything* else on the market beat, hands down. Smart playlists alone give it that edge, along with syncronization of playcounts and last played time information, as well as the audiobook handling. Nothing else even competes on those levels. Drag and drop functionality and gapless support are simply not the end-all be-all of "power user" functionality that you make it out to be.

And really, looking at the Rockbox firmware, it's good, but even if they had it working 100%, it's still not up to par with the default iPod firmware. Yes, Rockbox can do gapless and play some formats that the iPod can't. But it can't sync playcounts and song ratings back to my music library program. It can't do smart playlists that adjust themselves in real time. It can't show me a list of every artist in my library in under 3 seconds. My iPod can do all those things, and I'm sorry, but it's the iTunes integration that makes that actually happen.  Now, I admit foopod emulates quite a lot of that functionality, because Aero has done a fantastic job of keeping the iPodDB classes up to date. Props to Aero there. But Rockbox has a loooooong ways to go before I'd consider using it. Just having gapless + odd format support + weirdly crowded display screens that show tons of semi-useless info is not a win, in my book.

Rockbox just seems like a step backwards, really. It's like reinventing the wheel and just making it a bit rounder in the process. I don't need another wheel, I need a car with some shiny rims.

This is largely the same reason I don't use foobar except as a utility to do things to music. It's a step backwards compared to other players. This is not to down on foobar, it's like the swiss army knife of music programs, it can do anything with the right amount of effort. But I don't use a swiss army knife to open cans when I have an electric can opener at hand.

I think the Rockbox team should focus on deeper functionality and better integration with the PC, for all their supported players. Forget about drag and drop, or at least make a way that works better. C'mon, put those XML standards to work, there's a better way there somewhere. Make an open and easy to implement standard for this sort of thing. Invent some new feature that the iPod doesn't have already, one which will make the process of finding and listening to my music nicer in a significant way. Find that better integration, make my life simpler, and then I'll switch away from iTunes. But not before.

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #115
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for the power user, the iPod/iTunes combination has *everything* else on the market beat, hands down. Smart playlists alone give it that edge, along with syncronization of playcounts and last played time information, as well as the audiobook handling. Nothing else even competes on those levels.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=363854"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Speaking as someone who doesn't use playlists of any kind, could you give some insight as to how you use them and why they make listening to and/or navigating your music easier or more enjoyable? Perhaps a detailed example? I understand what playlists are, I don't understand the appeal.

Same question for the concepts of playcounts and last played time info.

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #116
Most of that extemporaneous stuff he mentioned is basically bells and whistles, when Rockbox is just interested in making a serious yet basic portable DAP with as much format support as possible, as well as gapless playback...not all of us care to have database management and playcount/last time played info on hand.

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #117
Everyone is of course entitled to their own opinion.  For myself the integration with a program to database the player was a feature I didn't want to have to deal with on a player.  Drag and drop simply was the more elegant option for me because my music is already sorted on my computer in albums under a logical filetree.  Due to the fact a vast majority of my albums require gapless playback to sound like they should that was also a feature I was looking for but didn't obtain until a year after I purchased my original iRiver H120.

I don't use playlists myself either as I said I tend to listen to albums.  Therefore any system that complicates this action doesn't work well for me.  I'm not saying that it wouldn't work for someone else, but everyone is different.  For every person who would rather have integration with a piece of software to manage a DAP there is someone who would prefer to have total control and do it on their own through drag and drop.

Rockbox has quite a large audience to be honest and is a well polished firmware once it's been on a device for a while.  I've been using it on my H140 since July 2005 and it is leagues above the original iRiver firmware.  Then again my player was always drag and drop.

I suppose the moral of the whole story is if you're happy with iTunes/iPod integration by all means continue to use it.  However, that system simply doesn't work for everyone and is a deterrant for some.  I for one have recently considered getting a Nano as a flash player because it can run Rockbox as the Apple firmware simply wouldn't have done it for me.

Anyhow, as always I'm grateful to all the Rockbox devs for all their hard work in bringing the world a very excellent functional DAP firmware that I enjoy using and now many more who chose to can use on a DAP that's actually in active production
Nero AAC 1.5.1.0: -q0.45

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #118
Well I own an iPod too and I must admit I have absolutely no use for dynamic playlists. And at the beginning, I felt that to have different types of hierarchical musc sortings was nice (by genre, artist, compilation ...) but in the end I never use it. In fact I even think that it lacks some features like sorting a band's albums by year of release without need to set the album to year+album title. Furthermore, even if iTunes is kind of good for some people needs, I definitely do not like it, it is not configurable enough.
I bought and iPod and it was mainly because of sexy design/hard drive size/relative quality comparing to others DAP, not because of iTunes.
In a nutshell, it is just a matter of taste to think that rockbox on iPod is great or useless.
Stupidity is root of all evil.

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #119
Guess it depends how you listen to your music, I've always liked using ml_pod because it's just another plugin for my music player, same as foopod too

I still need to try rockbox again now the volume control is there and drop a bigger font in.

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #120
personally I ought to have a database, because it is much more convenient.
perhaps one artist has an album "x" which is alternative-rock and an 2 albums "y" and "Z" which are metal. now - with a database you can choose. do I want everything from this artist OR do I want to listen to metal albums from this artist. nice, isn't it? a database is finally that thing that changes your listending behaviour. directories is nothing more than "virtual" cds. listen to that cd then change it and listen to another one. if you want a mix - burn a mixed cd. that's old, isn't it?
smart-playlists are also a "smart" way of organizing your music.
if you like to listen to your favourite tracks, it is handy to have something like playcount. think about it.
why not offer both options?!

but I do not agree with Otto42 regarding the formats and gapless playback etc. quote:

"Just having gapless + odd format support + weirdly crowded display screens that show tons of semi-useless info is not a win, in my book."

gapless and ogg are things I am longing for a long time already. these were the points preventing me from buying my third iPod. but now, I'll do so, because of rockbox. certenly it needs improvements when it comes to the simplicity apple offers. and - I have to say it again. it needs a database. the database is the thing which makes the ipod so popular IMO, despite the style! consider the style.

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #121
Is it true that Rockbox fixes the VBR mp3 playback issues for the Nano? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=2491.15 Can someone please verify this? If true, this is a BIG switch factor for me (and possible for a lot of frustrated Mini/Nano owners out there!)

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #122
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Is it true that Rockbox fixes the VBR mp3 playback issues for the Nano? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=2491.15 Can someone please verify this? If true, this is a BIG switch factor for me (and possible for a lot of frustrated Mini/Nano owners out there!)
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=363960"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, it fixes the vbr problems since it is an Apple firmware specific problem
Stupidity is root of all evil.

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #123
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I have to say it again. it needs a database. the database is the thing which makes the ipod so popular IMO, despite the style! consider the style.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=363902"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Hi. I agree totally. If I could have a nano that played ogg files and could search by artist I would be happy.

The ability to load a playlist would be necessary.  Dynamic playlist creation would be icing on the cake.

Does anyone know how long the battery lasts if running at full cpu under normal use?

Rockbox for the Ipod finally working

Reply #124
Seems like the 5G (Video) Audio driver maybe working now:

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iPod: Audio driver for iPod Video/5G.


Not of any use to myself, im unable to test, but consider this a heads up for those who were waitning, but not checking frequently.

Kristian